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The Big Show Receiver Argument...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Kid~Brady, Oct 10, 2011.

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  1. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    Michael Holley says that Welker is the 6th best receiver in the league. He says that Larry Fitzgerald is the best receiver and then Calvin Johnson. I guess thats hard to disagree with.

    Glen and Tedy are giving him a hard time about it tho. Where would you rank Welker right now, today on production only compared to the other elite receivers?

    I can honestly say he's a different receiver than someone like Megatron in the sense that size plays a huge part but at the same time Welker brings a different aspect of receiver in his own way as well.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  2. Rob0729

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    Just like the CBS pregame show, Welker is discounted because he is a slot receiver as if they are lesser quality than outside WRs. In today's NFL, slot receivers is much different and more important than in the past. That said, I don't know if he is the best WR in the league. I would still give that to Megatron.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  3. Deus Irae

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    I've been listening to the argument, and Ordway deserves a congratulations. I can't recall when I've ever heard anyone put forth a more ridiculous argument than what he's done.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  4. karguy85

    karguy85 Rookie

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    Its hard to argue he is not a top 5 receiver based on his track record and the level he has taken his game to this season. He doesn't get to accolades a lot of other receivers get because he doesn't have a prototypical number 1 receiver physique (size and height), and his plays aren't always that glamorous.

    I'll say this though, he is as solid as they come...
  5. Darolyn72

    Darolyn72 Banned

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    Ordway is providing cover for the Pats when they don't pay him at the end of the season and he leaves. You'll be hearing the Julian Edelman comparisons in February.
  6. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Megatron's longest reception this year is 40 yards. Fitzgerald's longest ties Welker's second longest (73 yards). Welker's longest is 99 yards.

    He's just a slot receiver who has put up the most fantasy points of any receiver in the league, so he's no match for guys that are taller but don't actually move the ball more. :rolleyes:
  7. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Rookie

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    This is a homer argument.....
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Related question...which would you rank higher, a heart surgeon, pilot or a firefighter?

    I think I would have to go heart surgeon, pilot and then firefighter.

    Unless my house was on fire, then I would go firefigher, heart surgeon and then pilot.

    But if I was on a plane when my house was ablaze, I would definitely go with pilot, firefighter and then heart surgeon.

    If all the stress of being in a pilot-less plane while my house was burning down caused me chest pains, then I would go back to heart surgeon, pilot and then firefighter.

    Am I being stupid? Most definitely. The obsession with ranking things that are utterly dependent on the context of the situation makes me loopy.
  9. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Doesn't matter to me at all where folks rank him. As you say, receivers bring different skill sets to the table and play different positions (slot vs. split), etc. One thing that seems different about Wes this season is he's running more deep routes and seems a bit faster than before. Welker seems to have kicked his game up a notch, but his forte remains working the middle of the field.

    I think the talking heads always will favor the flashy deep-threat speed burners vs. workhorses like Wes. The argument always will be made, "Well, he's mostly a possession move-the-chains type of receiver."
  10. Banjo

    Banjo Rookie

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    if Welker and Calvin played together... man, that would be a pretty good team.
  11. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    You're thinking small. Imagine if Randy Moss and Welker ever played together?

    Damn, that's like an unstoppable offense.
  12. sbpatfan

    sbpatfan Banned

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    He'd get more consideration if he was black.
  13. Banjo

    Banjo Rookie

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    now if Welker, Moss, and Calvin all played together... they could score a touchdown for every single drive!!

    sigh... if wishes were fishes
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Welker is the most productive receiver in the league.
  15. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Obviously my judgments are subjective and speculative, but I'd rank 'em:

    1. Fitz. Like Welker, he's *fearless* across the middle. Add in his size, speed and route-running ability and he's a big version of Welker. Brady would love to throw to him.

    2. Megatron. Guy is a freak. He could put up Randy Moss 2007 numbers if Brady had him (and forced the ball to him like he did to Moss in 2007).

    Close 3rd. Welker. The guy just excels at getting open anywhere on the field. He has hands of glue (see Buffalo game as exhibit A with some of those insane catches he made).

    Regards,
    Chris
  16. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    It's like baseball. The bias is toward home run hitters and against high average hitters. But this should change as Welker scores more and more.
  17. sevengables_2207

    sevengables_2207 Rookie

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    Love Wes and he is definitely in the top 5 mix, but for me, Calvin Johnson is the best right now.

    No other receiver has the physical tools to match his, and he seems to produce no matter who is back there slinging the ball for the Lions. Can we say the same about the other top receivers in the game beyond all doubt?
  18. patsinthesnow

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    Welker is the best he's ever been, better than his 2007 form. Atleast he's disproved he needs Moss to get the crazy stats. I love how this year hes become a complete WR, you see him run all the routes now. (16.4 ypc, 1 ypc off Mike Wallace)
  19. PatsWickedPissah

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    I heard this in the car. Switched stations when Holley explained that rating Wes 6th out of 3x32 = 96 (Holley said "out of 96") starting wideouts in the NFL was rating Wes in the top 1%. I just can't tolerate something that stupid. This country is in real trouble competing world wide.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  20. E1Downey

    E1Downey Rookie

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    Haha I have only been here a short while but this may be my favorite post yet. With that said, as long as there are sports there will be ranking discussions of contributors and participants of them. At the end of the day it's just fun!
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  21. ctpatsfan77

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    I went to a store once that offered a "bulk discount" . . . 10% off 1, 20% off 2, 30% off 3 or more.

    When I bought two items, and took it to the cashier, he took 10% off each, and tried to explain to me that "10% off the first and 10% off the second is 20% off."

    I asked to speak to the manager. I found out he was the manager. :bricks:
  22. Deus Irae

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    That was bad, but Ordway's argument basically boiled down to "more production (which he rated by catches) = better receiver". Any Patriots fan who remembers 2007 knows better. I love Welker, but there's not a chance in hell that he was a better receiver than Moss in 2007.
  23. Sivy

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    Welker may be the best PLAYER in the NFL right now, not just wr

    It just don't understand what Brady and him have to do to get the respect they deserve..seems like people are always trying to find people they can say are better.
  24. goheels22002

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    It depends on how good the offensive line is protecting the guy who is throwing them the ball. Receivers are third-level acquisitions.

    In order: Linemen - QB - Receivers & running backs.

    Welker's new contract should reward him and keep him as a core piece of the Brady attack but reflect his relative value in the marketplace. Welker knows that New England is one of a few ideal teams for him, as Branch discovered after he left for Seattle.

    He would become irrelevant in a Michael Vick offense or be completely wasted on a team without a great reader of defensive schemes. Welker would be terrific with Rodgers in Green Bay or Fitzpatrick in Buffalo.

    But his talents would be wasted or he would get killed on teams with quarterbacks who do not have time or who can't consistently get him the ball in spots that allow him to maneuver.
  25. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    More catches equal better receiver is wrong, but more production equals better receiver is correct. And in 2007 Moss had more production with over 300 more yards and almost 3 times as many TDs.
    Welker has more receiving yards in the first 5 games of this season that ANY WR IN NFL HISTORY HAS EVER HAD IN THE FIRST 5 WEEKS OF A SEASON.
    Welker 2011 (so far) is a better receiver than Moss 2007, because he produces more.
    Its silly IMO to determine the best WR by what you think the most important skils are when the answer is there on the field. Whatever the 'more talented' WRs have, they also lack skills that Welker possesses, and the result is Welkers skills play better in producing on the football field. At least right now.
    There is no doubt that Welker can get open and make plays that no one else in the NFL can. Whether that is quickness, intelligence, feel, moves or whatever you want to call it, anyone saying Welker < his production simply undervalues those qualities.
  26. Deus Irae

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    People don't put him up with C. Johnson, A. Johnson, Fitzgerald and some of the other elite outside receivers. The reason for this is because it's about more than just raw numbers, the same as it is for most positions in the game. He's generally considered the best slot receiver in the game, though, so I'm not sure how that's not giving him respect.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  27. Sivy

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    He gets respect, just not enough..

    because he is short and white and doesnt have a cartoon nickname.

    Lets get people to start calling Tom Brady Heman, and Welker Battle Cat and they will get even more respect.
  28. Deus Irae

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    How is being acknowledged as the best in your position (slot receiver) not enough? How is being the first unanimous MVP not enough?
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  29. MoLewisrocks

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    Yesterday I was listening to the pre game show on the radio and the three stooges (Perillo was in with Gresh and Zo) were babbling about how they wouldn't give Welker a new contract this year because he'll be 32 or eventually they had him up to 33 next season... He turned 30 in May. They said they'd franchise him and assuming he'd be worth it for another year but not on a long term deal...

    They probably don't realize that all a long term deal allows for is cap flexibility...And even moreso if you extend him before the end of this season...

    But on the bright side Peter King said today if Welker keeps this up much longer his name might just come up one day in the HOF voters discussions... Might...

    Belichick traded for Welker before he had any reason to believe he would be acquiring Moss. Although I remember at the time NEM claimed it was a huge mistake in hindsight and with Moss onboard he predicted Welker would be cut or traded before camp ended that season...
  30. Joker

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    heh...yeah...BUT...if fish carried luggage....
    .
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    .
    .
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    who would ever know????:confused2:
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