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The Big Lie

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PonyExpress, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    The "Big Lie" is a propaganda technique defined by Hitler in Mein Kampf as the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "would have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".

    Hitler wrote: "in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

    Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister, adopted this strategy and brought it to terrifying perfection directed at his own and subjugated peoples. Even as the Jews were powerless and being slaughtered, speeches were continually made that the Jews were the moving force behind the war; even though the Jewish influence in the Soviet Union had ended with the liquidation of the Trotskyites, the "Bolsheviks" were depicted to the German population as a Jewish Nation.

    Many I'm sure are aware of the Nazi influences in the Arab world, and the way Mein Kampf is today considered a classic and treasured reading throughout that region, and Hitler a hero. How did this occur? The Ba'ath party, which currently rules Syria and previously controlled Iraq, was created nurtured and inspired by the Vichy French and the Nazis during WWII. It is no surprise that through this and other vehicles both the belief system and propaganda styles advocated by Hitler and Goebbels have become part and parcel of Muslim internal and foreign policy. We know the sympathies between the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj-Amin Al Husseini, and Hitler, who met together in Paris in 1941. As the Mufti declared in his 1944 radio broadcast to the Muslim SS troops serving in the Balkans:

    "The Reich is fighting against the same enemies who robbed the Moslems of their countries and suppressed their faith in Asia, Africa and Europe…. National Socialist Germany is fighting against world Jewry. The Koran says, 'You will find that the Jews are the worst enemies of the Moslems.' There are considerable similarities between Islamic principles and those of National Socialism, namely in the affirmation of struggle and fellowship, in the stress of the leadership idea, in the ideal of order. All this brings our ideologies close together and facilitates cooperation. I am happy to see in this [military] division a visible and practical expression of both ideologies."

    Following the defeat of Germany, as Joel Fishman writes, ( http://www.danielpipes.org/rr/4465.php), "many Nazis found refuge in the Arab world. From 1953, Egypt absorbed some two thousand of them. Some worked in Nasser's secret service. Some administered concentration camps. Others were involved in the design and construction of rockets.
    Among this population were specialists in anti-Semitic propaganda. From Egypt, they disseminated anti-Semitism in the Arab world as well as the doctrine of Holocaust denial....

    "After the defeat of Germany, the propaganda methods of inversion of reality and the Big Lie fell into temporary disuse. Nevertheless, the Soviet Union and its allies in the Arab world reintroduced them during the 1960s, particularly after the Israeli victory in the Six Day War in 1967. That outcome represented a humiliation and posed an internal danger because it shook the foundations of authority. It heartened the minorities in the Soviet Union, not least the Jews. Having suffered a major reverse, the Soviet Union and the Arab countries decided to use political anti-Semitism to shift world attention from their own failures. They sought to delegitimize Israel, bringing about its isolation and destruction. Both the Arab world and the Soviet Union used inversion of reality as a method and drew on the idiom of Nazi propaganda."

    At that time, there was a connection forged between the far left in the West, an extension of Soviet influence, and Islamo-fascism. Together they embraced the Big Lie as a means for manipulating Western opinion regarding the Middle East. Today, the alliance between the Far Left and Islamofascism continues to flourish; and the Big Lie has become a staple weapon of America's enemies in the War on Terror.

    Several Big Lies, embraced and propagated by the Left, confirm the continuing existence of that alliance and relationship.

    1. That the United States and Israel engaged in a conspiracy to destroy the Twin Towers and blame it on the Muslims. Even as Leftists like Noam Chomsky et. al. and Islamofascists rejoiced at the audacity of that horrific crime, they were propagating that Big Lie to the gullible masses here and abroad, using sympathizers and fellow travelers in the media, universities and politics as their mouthpieces. Popular examples of such prominent imbeciles are Rosie O'Donnel, Charlie Sheen, just fellow travelers foolishly suckered by a tried and true method of manipulation.

    2. That the United States is LOSING the war in Iraq. Actually the United States is decisively winning the War in Iraq, one of the great military and political achievements in the history of our nation, if our politicians can stay the course. Al Qaeda is rapidly abandoning prospect of establishing a Caliphate beginning in Iraq, because of the lack of reciptivity of the Iraqi Sunnis, with whom the fascists are exasperated for their recalcitrance. The target of their ambitions is shifting away from Iraq, a dead end and a certain US success (provided our military continues to be supported), toward the overthrow of the Alawi Syrian regime. The fact that reports of our "loss" in Iraq are so persistent suggests that many in our own public media have become mouthpieces for enemy propaganda. The UN oil for food scandal in the French Press demonstrates the current vulnerability of the 4th estate to such influences. The designs of the opposition party (the Democrats) on securing the White House are another more obvious reason for the repetition of images meant to steal defeat out of the jaws of victory.

    3. The claim that President Bush is the one who used "The Big Lie" technique leading up to the Iraq war, vis a vis WMD, is in IMO itself a Big Lie worthy of Goebbels. And yet, as Goebbels stated, "if you repeat something often enough, sooner or later people will believe it." And so we are left with a disillusioned American public doubting the righteousness of a world wide conflict, the moral intentions of their leadership, and despondent at the prospects of losing a hopeless war, when in fact we should perceive ourselves as a righteous nation, confident in our virtue and on the cusp of one of our greatest achievements. That is what the Big Lie can do, rob a nation of its soul, as it did to the German people in WWII, to the Russian people, and continues to do to the Muslim peoples who suffer throughout the Middle East under the yoke of totalitarian regimes.

    In this I blame our President for his failings: He should have been better prepared to combat enemy propaganda filtered through the Western media and University system, should have better prepared the nation for the duration and cost of the Iraq conflict. All of this could have been accomplished if he were simply a more effective public speaker, a salesman. But that lack of charisma has been his greatest weakness, and one for which there is no remedy but victory.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2007
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Bush actually is fairly charismatic . . . he's just unable to form complete and strong arguments even when they're staring him in the face.
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pony,

    I just want to drop in and mention that I have spent countless hours in the last few years, attempting to get my "fellow travelers" on the moderate left to understand your historical points here, particularly the depth of the alliance between wartime Germany and many Arab nations and leaders -- most especially Amin Al Husseini. So good on you for knowing the history, and knowing that similar propaganda persists to this day among many Arab and Moslem states. To brand all Arab resistance or internal politics as descended from German national socialism is going too far, however.

    Similarly, I am not a conspiracy theorist as regards 9/11. It's pretty clear what happened, from my point of view: a bunch of terrorists hijacked planes and ran them into buildings. Everything else is commentary, including whatever the "WTC 7" footage is supposed to prove.

    Suffice it to say, I disagree with your following points, as regards the war in Iraq, the Bush policy, etc. I do not particularly want to take the time to have that battle with you, but may return for it.

    I did want to pop in and give you props for getting an important (and largely disregarded) bit of middle east history right. Of course, given the current configuration, that's more appealing for the right than the left -- so I suppose you guys have a purpose after all.

    Cheers,

    PFnV
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Or sentences, for that matter.
  5. glecco

    glecco Rookie

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    It may be of some historical interest of how the “Big Lie” has been used in the past. It may of some current interest to some as to how this practice is being used by extraneous forces in other places against other peoples around the world.

    Of what is of great interest to most of us is how this practice has challenged the citizens of this nation during the last few years - and by whom.

    It may be a technique which has successfully contributed to the current state of affairs in which we now found ourselves entrapped.
  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Can you elaborate? I think I get you, but Im not sure.
  7. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    so then Im sure we'll find an Iraqi nuclear program any day now along with caches of yellowcake. :rolleyes:

    But I applaud you for recognize Bushs failure. Thats pretty bold and courageous from right wing political forum neophytes. (I noticed you didnt forget to mention the university system as part of the enemy)

    Comical.
  8. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    In other words... this article is fugazi, and a complete waste of your time.

    1. WRONG...

    2. WRONG...

    and

    3. Partially correct...

    Keep your head in the chemtrail clouds... when you finally wake up, you'll be already cooked (frog in the frying pan).
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
  9. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Sleep walker among us^^^^...

    Or as Henry Kissinger says, "Just another useless eater."
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2007
  10. glecco

    glecco Rookie

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    Thankyou, Brown, for asking.

    It is a simple matter to dismiss point (1) of the thread since it is a “straw dog” argument which has no substantive relevance.

    Point (2) is the hopeful vision of one with the head (to the level of the ankles) in the sand.

    Point (3) is the most interesting and what I unsuccessfully tried to address. It saddens me to read from the victim the excuses of the executioner.

    There’s something so sadomasochistic about it!
  11. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I believe the role of this country in the world is to use the blessings we have received to promote freedom and representative government beyond our borders, to confront and if necessary bring down the vestiges of totalitarian governments still in existence. This country did so in WW II, in the Cold War, and continues to do so faced with this new fascism. That is a righteous cause, and one worthy of a great nation. It is what has made our country unique in the annals of history, and what has defined our people as a great people. There are plenty of citizens who do not hold this view. They do not believe in the unique and righteous role of America in future of the World. They would prefer to see our nation morphed into the European socialist model, a model which I consider decadent, weak and teetering on the edge of self-destruction. The one whose head is buried in sand, is you, who are so used to seeing the world in shades of gray you can no longer tell noon from midnight. The enemy is real; the Big Lie is being used as a weapon against our nation, our citizens and our military; but still a portion of our people is paralyzed by misinformation and a contrarian instinct born of self-indulgence. There is still time to abandon the cynicism of the Left, to wipe away the veil of cobwebs that The Big Lie has draped across your eyes. I urge you to do so.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That's what you think..........
  13. glecco

    glecco Rookie

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    Pony,

    If I’ve seemed patronizing to your post, I apologize. The situation we find ourselves in is very complex and is possibly unnecessary.

    You state your belief of the role of our nation. ….



    This is an extremely dangerous thought to the rest of us. There could be as many as 300 million of us in this country which do not feel this way. Why are you so willing to sacrifice us for your belief? What makes your belief the determinant of the fate of us and our children?
  14. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I believe in representative government, in which people of differing views engage in the arena of ideas and through bloodless combat set the course of the nation. I have no power to force you or anyone to sacrifice anyone for anything. If people who believe as I do are able to set policy through legal controls as defined by the Constitution, then the country must abide by their decisions, as befits a civilized nation. Your suggestion that I am alone in my beliefs is not supported by the facts. This President ran on a platform similar to my beliefs, was elected by a wide margin and governs by the authority of the Constitution. No opinion poll, focus group or intervening congressional defeat can overturn the legitimacy of a Presidential election, the most significant expression of our communal will, which has a duration of 4 years. If in the future this nation demands that we risk our lives on its behalf, as citizens whose fathers and grandfathers have benefited from the bounty of past victories, I hope you and your children recognize your responsibility and willingly repay your debt.
  15. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    The thought isn't dangerous, only how its carried out is. We spent 50 years
    bringing the totalitarian USSR down. I approved of that and would have approved of a similar approach to today's problems. Which is almost certainly where the next admin will lead us. The complete lack of patience with so small a threat (comparatively) is where this disaster was born.
  16. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What can I say but...

    The "Unaware"....:singing: Don't Care....:singing: That you think they're Unaware...:singing:
  17. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    If anyone wanted to read what neo-conservatives are all about...it is this thread. PonyExpress is as close to a neo-con as there is on this board to my knowledge to date. That is BTW most certainly NOT what Bush ran on in 2000 nor in 04 (he specifically stated how opposed to nation building he was in 2000...either a targetted lie to court the paleocons or had a change of heart post 9-11), but it is the specific agenda of the PNAC, the Israeli Lobby, Clean Break, and the neo-conservative philosophy in general.

    Read Strauss, Machiavelli, and Trotsky...these are the teachers of neo-conservatism. Better yet, read this http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

    PonyExpress relays their vision to a tee with the US in the role of the empire.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think we're far off in what we both believe, but I'm not sure the threat we face today is small comparatively. When savage primitives repeat and effort to murder thousands of innocent men, women, and children on our shores, something which the Soviets never attempted, I don't think we can call the threat small. Furthermore, the Soviets were civilized (if you can call this that) in the sense that they completely understood what mutually assured destruction meant, whereas the savage primitives do not. Their intent is to destroy themselves in destroying us, as true salvation exists only with Allah. When you take the make up of the current threat, and imagine how they would, and actually seek to use nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, whereas the Soviets had them and did not, you can easily conclude the magnitude of the threat, and it's imminence. We don't have 50 years to sit idly. In defense of the action in Iraq, the intention was geopolitical change in the heart of the ME. Where I feel it was a risk, and did not like the idea specifically, I did see the idea behind it's implementation.
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Opposed to nation building in 2000, prior to what happened on 9/11/2001. I think that day changed alot of things for some people. Rightfully so in some instances, and not so in others.
  20. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Yes, IF you assume that the Downing Street Memo never existed. But, of course, you are wrong and it does exist. Which supports the idea that we were going to invade whether 9-11 occurred or not. Also, considering that A-Q had an insignificant presence in Iraq, leads many to believe, correctly IMO, that we were going to invade Iraq regardless of clear and present danger.

    The retard just underestimated the challenge and put crooks in charge of the rebuild.

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