Welcome to PatsFans.com

The 4th and 1 stop

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatriotNMP43, Oct 26, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PatriotNMP43

    PatriotNMP43 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    First off, i am very happy for the win. Big win, no doubt.

    What I can't understand is why the Patriots have gone away from the quarterback sneak this season. That was the perfect time to run a sneak with less than 12 inches for a first down. Handing the ball off 3 yards in the backfield is just dumb in that situation and we are lucky it did not cost us the game.

    Last year we ran sneaks on 4th and 2's but this year I don't think there was one yet. Cassel must be capable of running under the center for 12 inches, come on McDaniels, take the training wheels off your QB.

    Thoughts?
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,236
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    I think the biggest reason is "let's not risk Matt Cassel getting killed."

    But I agree, I'd have rather seen the QB sneak, too.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  3. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,924
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    that's actually a pretty damn good question.

    Cassel is supposedly really athletic... why can't he do a QB sneak?

    they run them all the time with Brady and never once with cAssel even though there's been tons of opportunities. very strange.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  4. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I thought the same thing.

    My first reaction is because we're weaker at quarterback they're making an effort to protect Cassel better. That doesn't really make sense though because it's not like they'd be willing to risk Brady in a similar situation. Maybe Cassel hasn't shown enough of a prowess for it?

    I honestly thought G-E was going to pick it up. Maybe they did too. Unfortunately that was one of the few downs where his ability to blast through guys wasn't enough.
  5. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Good point indeed. A pro bowl center should be able to convert a single yard. You'd think with Cassel they'd use that stratagy more.
  6. Ishdul

    Ishdul Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Sneaks are more than the centre. If Yates gets blown up than that play is probably getting stuffed as well and we certainly don't trust Yates nearly as much as we do Neal.
  7. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Good point, and I bet that's it.
  8. PatriotNMP43

    PatriotNMP43 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    357
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    12 inches or hand off 3 yards in the backfield, i prefer physics on that one, even if it gets stuffed its the right call. You do make a good point though, why on earth is Yates in there on that big situation when you got Neal?
  9. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,960
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    A sneak is very hard to stuff. All the QB has to do is find the slightest gap and fall through it. BJE was tripped up before he really had a chance. Bad play selection especially after they ran the same exact play on 3rd down.
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    This is going to shock all those "open minded and objective" poster. This homer agrees.

    We should have done it on 3rd down and again on 4th, if needed. It makes no sense to me to run 2 plays in which the RB is going sideways. If not QB keepers, then a quick hand-off to the RB in a dive between the 2 or 3 holes with his shoulders square to the LOS.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2008
  11. 102 Pat

    102 Pat Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #85 Jersey
    I'd put a vote into maybe scared of getting Cassel hurt. Then again Brady has done it so many times...
  12. Zeke_Mowatt

    Zeke_Mowatt Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that it could very well have been a "Brady audible if you see XXXX" situation last year, and they don't trust Cassel reading Defenses/D-Line Packages/etc as much as Tom. Or, similarly, the Defenses aren't giving us the same looks on D, Tom saw more 3 man fronts, more pass coverages on 3rd or 4th and shorts, etc. Could be any number of specific reasons, but my instinct is that it was generally more of an 'audible if you see something read' that they don't necessarily put in Cassel's hands just yet.
  13. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,401
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    did u guys not see what happened to get the play broken up?

    BJ was tripped up in the backfield...b/c the defender blew yates out of the water and dove into the backfield...

    if it was a sneak, and cassel went to the right, he would have been destroyed by a DT
  14. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    This is also fair... I could not believe there wasn't a flag there for offside, that guy got SUCH an amazing jump.
  15. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,040
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Sneaks are good for # and less than a yard. This was a yard plus.
  16. SVN

    SVN Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    22,513
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    i dont know if they have seen enough from cassel to do it especially interms of ball security.last thing they want is cassel conscious about a sneak and fumble a snap and all that crap. they probably are working on it maybe they were just not comfortable.
    Althought on 3rd and 1 i think they shouldve playactioned and gone deep if they know they were going to go on 4th and 1.
  17. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,127
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +55 / 2 / -2

    My Jersey:

    Alp nailed it...Yates is below ordinary. That was just bad football. And in hindsight, I agree with SVN about 3rd down.If you are going to go both downs, then a play action and a quick hitter to Welker for a couple of yards would have made more sense.The Rams seemed to know what was coming on both those plays.
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    :idontgetit: Great jumping hyperbole, do any of you guys watch the games or check the game logs?

    NFL Game Center: Play-by-Play - New England Patriots at San Diego Chargers - 2008 6
    This was a QB sneek that went right behind Billy Yates. Some of you may recall that San Diego features NT Jamal Williams on their DL? So much for Josh being afraid Cassel will bruise.

    The play call choice against St. Louis was no different then the Sammy Morris TD run against Denver, well, somewhat different, this time it got stuffed - they pay defenders too.
  19. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,111
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Yet I too have the strong impression that they're running the sneak much less than in previous seasons. I definitely don't buy the argument that they're more concerned about Cassel's safety than Brady's, and Box's example argues against FOY (Fear Of Yates) as the reason. Numbers, anybody? Sneak rate 2007 vs. 2008?
  20. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,236
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Well, there've been times when they run it seemingly almost every week, and then there've been times where it's all but disappeared from the playbook (parts of 2006, IIRC; I know I've complained about that in the past on this board).
  21. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,845
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -1

    My Jersey:

    Frankly, I'm OK if we dont run snaeks, primarily because QBs are much more likely to fumble on a sneak than a RB on a run. I think that is part of the decision making. Brady did not do many sneaks until after he had gained experience either.
  22. p8ryts

    p8ryts Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Can't blast through when Billy Yates misses his block and GE gets caught for an ankle trip from behind.
  23. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Here, here! Though Brady did a couple "snaeks" before he settled down with Bridget, but that's a topic for another forum. I concur that Josh is probably holding Matt back a little while he gets his defensive reads sorted out better - the kid is seeing a lot of new stuff and is processing it well.

    Brady 2001, Cassel 2008, are parallel OJT advanced training programs from the School of Belichick. That there has been a similar success rate to this point in the season is mildly surprising, but encouraging. I believe what encourages those of us with the patience (and willingness to watch the games instead of hiding under rocks to screech about the loss of Brady) has been those flashbacks to a 2001 Tommy. Good stuff. What should encourage folks even more is seeing Cassel's teammates go from "I think he can" to "I know he can" and start to step up their play accordingly. Cassel has had the burden of carrying more than the hopes of the fan base - the force is strong with this one.
  24. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    No idea on the numbers but I'm getting the feeling BB's just not running the expected play all the time. Maybe it has something to do with Matty's experience and/or some fumble percentages,but also I'd guess we can't compare this particular season with any others because,if nothing else,lord knows it's unlike any other season.

    If we want to check #'s though, maybe 01 would be a more comparable season:confused:
  25. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    You homers really get to me. That didn't feel as good to say as I thought. I wonder why some get a big kick out of saying that on every post.:confused:

    Anyway, On 3rd down it was a 1/2 yard to go. The moment they handed off the ball I was yelling "No!". If you don't want the QB running the keeper, a quick hand off to the RB/FB going forward should get it done - not going sideways.
  26. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    20,550
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    We've seen them run off tackle in short yardage before, think of Sammy's big run in Cincy last season and recall Cory toting the rock behind Klecko and Hochstein - sometimes the defense wins, just ask Billy.
  27. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I don't care about the other guys.

    Those two downs won the Triple Crown of incompetance: short-sighted design, incorrect formations, and lousy execution.

    Those two downs screamed for mis-direction, bootleg, or play-action.

    And where the hell was Neal?!?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page