Welcome to PatsFans.com

The 46 player active roster matters on cuts

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Crazy Patriot Guy, Aug 27, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I posted about this in the Gaffney thread but it could apply to other cuts going forward. It's not all about setting the 53 player roster. You have to look at who's going to play on gameday.

    Core special teamers will be active every game, barring injury. So if you have a guy that isn't playing special teams, he better be high enough on the depth chart that he's worth keeping.

    In the case of Gaffney, it's not that he isn't a better WR than Edelman or Slater, it's simply that because of their special teams responsibilities, they're going to be active every week. With Lloyd, Welker and Branch, that's 5 WRs. With the multiple TE sets we like to use, you could argue that Branch might be inactive some weeks.

    Quality depth is great and it's nice to have insurance in case of injuries. But it's tough to keep a WR (or any position player) in his 30s that might never play except for injuries over a developmental player that could pay off down the road.
  2. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think that you have this right. Now Ebert and Holly will compete for the developmental receiver that will always be inactive, if we even have such a position.
  3. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I thought the practice squad was the venue for developmental players:

    Ebert
    Forston
    Francis
    Kettani
    Taylor
    Williams

    Plus a couple of offensive lineman for Dante Scarnecchia.
  4. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If those players clear waivers. Players such as Ted Larson, Lee Smith and Will Yeatman prove that it isn't a guarantee.
  5. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I have accounted for 25 players on the New England Patriots offense:

    QB - 3 Brady, Mallett, Hoyer
    RB - 5 Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Bolden, Demps
    TE - 3 Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
    WR - 5 Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, Slater
    OL - 9 Koppen, Connelly, Wendell, McDonald, Mankins, Thomas, Solder, Vollmer, Cannon

    Based upon the aforementioned offensive squad, there is no room for the following players:

    Ebert
    Kettani
    Taylor
  6. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think this is right. But Demps still needs to beat Ebert out. Dropping Larsen, Gaffney and Stallworth makes Bolden look like a keeper.
  7. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    No way in hell Jeff Demps clears waivers. Ebert has been disappointing in pre-season so far.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:


    I have wondered if BB decides to keep 2 QB's if he thinks Mallett has progressed enough, we would keep Shinacoe (assuming his injury isn't too bad), we cut loose the vets who were injured/didn't project to the 5 to give them a shot to catch on. We didn't do that with Shinacoe.

    I was thinking 25 on D also with the 2 Specialist to round out the roster.
  9. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    No offense, I just don't understand the fascination with Shiancoe on the PatsFans message board. The tight end has done nothing whatsoever in training camp let alone play one pre-season game.

    I personally would have cut Shiancoe and kept Gaffney.
  10. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    To be fair, Gaffney hasn't practiced recently and had 2 catches for 18 yards in the only game he played in. It's not as if he set the world on fire either.
  11. Funktopus

    Funktopus Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm guessing the following will make the 53 but wont dress on game day

    Becket
    Denard
    Tomas
    Weems
    Francis

    that leaves me 2 short.

    Reiss posted this week that Niko, Tarp and digbo appeared on 3 ST units. If one or none of them make the team, then who is playing ST from the 46 that dress?
  12. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Gaffney has done more than Shiancoe which is NOTHING!
  13. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Again, look at the 46 man active roster. If we kept Gaffney, (and the fact that he's gone and Branch isn't shows that Branch won the #3 spot) that's 6 WRs active each week, assuming you don't want to deactivate Gaffney.

    2 QBs
    4 RBs minimum (If Demps makes it, no way we don't put him out on special teams each week. Woodhead IMO wouldn't be asked to carry the load if Ridley got hurt so another would be needed)
    6 WRs (having kept Gaffney)
    3 TEs (I'm not even including Shiancoe)
    7 OL (which is on the light side, would like to see 8)

    That's 22 on offense, 23 if you activate the 8th lineman. After K, P and LS, that leaves 20 spots for defense. That seems light considering how many special teamers are on that side of the ball.
  14. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Given Deion Branch's injury history, you actually expect Deion Branch to be completely healthy for 19 games this season? Who is to say that you could not alternate Gaffney one week and Branch the other week, barring injuries of course?
  15. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,132
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #75 Jersey
    In Gaff's case, it could be one of those wink and nod cuts.

    It may not be, but there could be a player that BB does not want to release until the final cut. Being able to release Gaff, knowing he can bring him back, gives him a little more time to make decisions on others.
  16. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I certainly hope so, since the wide receiver position looks a little thin right now.
  17. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Correct, although Shiancoe could replace Demps or the ninth OL. Game day inactives could start with a QB, an RB, and an OL. Maybe knock active OL down to 7, because of STs.
  18. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Shiancoe provides little to the New England Patriots offense; especially considering that he has been unable to get on the practice field since the first week of training camp, has yet to play a pre-season game, and has no previous experience playing in the New England Patriots offense.

    As for Jeff Demps, there is no way he will pass thru waivers. Besides, the New England Patriots may need to carry five running backs since Vereen was injured in the Tampa Bay pre-season game.

    As for the offensive line, it is not standard practice for Bill Belichick to only dress seven offensive lineman?
  19. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You're right about the health thing with Shiancoe; certainly it would be a disincentive to guaranteeing his salary. Having 4 TEs makes sense, however, although preferably with more ST contribution.

    Some recent article said the Pats dressed 8 OL more often than 7 last season. I was surprised.
  20. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +33 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    I'm not sure who you mean with the first name, but I'm assuming maybe Barrett? He was cut in the first round on Sunday night, so he's out. You may have "Beckett" on the brain a bit lately due to some of the Red Sox news.

    Dennard to me is another question mark, but he may very well make it now as a developmental CB. I agree that he will be inactive for the majority of the games, barring injury. They could try and sneak him onto the PS, but I think that we may keep 10 DB's now, which would keep him here.

    Thomas' situation may have dramatically improved when McDonald was injured. This would also be true if/when Waters does NOT decide to show up, which is a possibility too. Either way, Thomas' chances have increased in my opinion. I agree with him on the inactive list for the majority.

    Weems I do not see making it, although he will likely be signed to the PS if he can make it through. I just don't see too much room, but then again--you need an additional tackle too, and his chances may have increased with the McDonald injury depending upon how bad it is, as he was supposed to take the 4th tackle + versatility at all 5 position.

    Francis is one who I actually totally agree with. There is a rumor that they are rather high on him. We'll have to see if that's true, but it would make sense.

    We'd still need one more, which would give 6 + the inactive QB (Mallett).
  21. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +33 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Schiancoe is still an unknown to me. Everytime I think I get a read there is the other side of the coin which makes sense too. That one will be interesting, but at the end of the day I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he will not be here.

    I believe that the NEP actually had 3 TE's active in about 25% of the games last year, which would already leave Fells as the odd man out if all 3 are healthy, although one could also assume that Belichick wanted more 3 TE gameday actives and couldn't get them due to injuries/lack of player. Maybe he does want to carry 4 + 1 on PUP (although we're expecting Ballard to me moved to permanent IR, maybe Belichick knows that he has potential for a late season push?)

    I think that Schiancoe's a goner, but it could certainly go either way.
  22. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:


    Shinacoe is a veteran who had some very good years in Minn since we play a 2TE base 4 TE's on the roster doesn't seem like a stretch. The Pats knowing they were looking to extend AH still went out and got J Ballard and signed Fells to a multi year deal so IMO the Pats aren't looking to go with just 3 TE's.
  23. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I wouldn't say it's out of the question at all...I can't see Shiancoe making the team if he doesn't get healthy though. I see Fells as a lock and I wouldn't say it would have been out of the question to make Shiancoe the fourth TE but he's got to do something. IR is obviously a possibility (I think he's practiced so he isn't eligible for PUP) but given he's on a one year deal and they obviously see Ballard being able to return in week 6, they may just opt to part ways.
  24. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:



    I am basing this speculation on the Pats knowing more about the seriousness of injury than we do.

    I also think that Ballard playing this year after the sort of surgery he had is unlikely. I think they are trying to get him to IR without exposing him to waivers.
  25. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #87 Jersey
    How does a Waters return effect the final roster? Who gets cut?

    I expect to see him shortly. :confused:
  26. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    They could have done that without PUP. Ballard was in the locker room yesterday and walking without a noticible limp. It's been 6 months since his surgery. That is the new 9 months to a year for surgially repaired ACL's at this level. He will be 8 months post surgery by the time they have to make a decision to activate him or IR him.

    Shianco may be gone by then. If not sooner. His situation is a headscratcher as they had to extend themselves financially to land him and then after a practice or two he was gone. And they were in a roster bind practice and game wise for the duration. Bill is either steamed and not feeling like releasing him a day sooner than he has to with a couple of teams jonesing for a viable second TE or he liked him enough that he's not going to risk him prior to week 1 under any circumstances. Kind of like the Waters situation, we can only guess what the backstory is. We will know soon, though.
  27. Funktopus

    Funktopus Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    lol @ me posting too late last night. I meant Jake Bequette.

    The names I threw out there are just speculation about inactives. ST'ers from last game as documented by Reiss include:

    Players with special teams value - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

    I was trying to back into a guess about a 53 man roster by assuming that out of the 46 some must play ST. For example, Slater will and Branch probably not. Would including this additional constraint help improve my guesses about the 53? I dunno. I was sharing to see if anyone else was thinking about it like this.

    It would be cool though if the patspicker had 1) ST attributes assignable to each player for kickoff, punt, kickoff coverage and punt ret 2) game day inactives, 3) practice squad designation and 4) PUP.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  28. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    1) 25 isn't the "magic" number for the offense. We have often kept 26, and once kept 27 IIRC. So, there is "room" for a 4th TE or to bring back a WR (certainly room after the beginning of the season) or for a fullback or for a 10th offensive lineman.

    2) IMHO, 4 centers is one too many. In effect McDonald is the 4th RT. I suspect that we will sign a backup RT in the next couple of weeks. McDonald may be a nice prospect, but he was our 4th center last year, and he is the 4th center this year. As with any center not named Koppen, he also plays guard.

    3) Most of our rosters have had 24 defensive players for a couple weeks. Including special teamers, 14 front seven and 10 defensive backs is sufficient. Someone even suggested 13 in the front seven. 9 defensive backs has been suggested many times. The key is the lack of need for special-teams-only players on defense, since all the special teamers are at least emergency players at a position.

  29. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Shiancoe has been unable to get on the practice field since the first week of training camp, has yet to play a pre-season game, and has no previous experience playing in the New England Patriots offense.

    I thought McDonald and Thomas had the ability to play the offensive guard position.

    Cutting Jabar Gaffney makes even less sense considering this line of reasoning.
  30. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,751
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Adding another pass receiving target (in addition to Daniel Fells) that will clog the middle of the field will not resolve the Achilles' heel of the New England Patriots passing offense.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page