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The $2T "Global Warming" Tax

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by BelichickFan, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    This is just getting silly :

    Washington Times - Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

    "President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

    A top economic aide to Mr. Obama told a group of Senate staffers last month that the president's climate-change plan would surely raise more than the $646 billion over eight years the White House had estimated publicly, according to multiple a number of staffers who attended the briefing Feb. 26.

    "We all looked at each other like, 'Wow, that's a big number,'" said a top Republican staffer who attended the meeting along with between 50 and 60 other Democratic and Republican congressional aides."

    I guess it is change, though :rolleyes:
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well Algore needs to make a buck....

    A money grab and BTW a VERY regessive tax...
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It is very regressive because it will cause massive inflation when inflation hits products. It will also cause massive increases in energy but the Obamamen are going to give credits to the poor to pay for it - thereby just having the mean, nasty middle class and up pay for it.

    This is an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen.
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    For those who have forgotten, $2T is $6,700 for every man, woman and child in the country. That would be taken out of the economy. Since the Obamamen throw Trillion around like Million I thought I should remind everyone.
     
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Bush spent wildly too!!! <bacaw!>
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not about Bush anymore. And Bush wasn't nearly as loose with OUR wallet as this guy although he spent way too much for my liking too.
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Bush+Obama=Bankruptcy?
     
  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Bush is gone. Obama's now cutting military spending across the board -- even as the Chinese and Putin's Russia are massively INCREASING their military spending -- so there goes most of Bush's spending increases for national defense/Homeland Security.

    Here's the Reality: Obama+Pelosi/Reid = (very possible) Bankruptcy



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  9. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    you might be surprised to hear that i agreed with you here, at this point... if there ever was a time, now is when military spending should be maintained, if not increased.....

    but then... you punted to this beauty, and showed you simply just don't get it:

    failing to include the Bush factor into that equation shows just how far out of whack you truly are...

    the equation really should have looked more like this, to be accurate: Bush x (Obama+Pelosi/Reid) = bankruptcy...

    and so there it is... the fundamental difference between people like you, and people like me: ... Through it all... only one of us can recognize that both parties have bankrupted the american people... the other refuses to find fault in anything conservative... or anything religious and 'right'....

    you're awesome, Fog... thank you for revealing just who you truly are, each and every day...
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    You shouldn't call me "awesome", Pressy, it only makes me feel proud, hard to stay humble .... :rolleyes:

    Anywho, I am very sorry to say that military spending needs to be continued at the same levels of the past -- or even increased, as you say -- because we are wasting too many precious resources on fighting, resources we need to use for making the world peacefully beautiful for all. It really is time to beat swords into ploughshares, but, unfortunately, that cannot happen until the threats to world peace.

    As to the "culprits" of the current economic disaster, it's interesting that 2 days ago I asked an old, old childhood friend of mine -- a fellow from Needham back in the early 60s -- who has been in commercial real estate for the past 30 years, and I asked him what his views of the economic meltdown were, and what about the CRA .... and we had never discussed this before so he does not know my view on it at all.

    This is what he said:

    "Almost since the country was founded every time the government tinkers with the financial system by making credit easy we have a huge run up in purchases (buying power) followed by a crash (recession). The severity and length of which is in direct proportion to how much the government tinkered with the system.

    The CRA was a knee jerk reaction to what was definitely a wrong. I was in the banking industry in the late ‘70’s when red lining was a common practice. My bank would literally draw a red line around certain neighborhoods and forbid loans in those areas which, of course, were low income areas. Yet at the same time they had branch banks in those same neighborhoods and were taking in deposits. As I say, on the surface that would appear to be unfair. Community activists cried foul and liberals within congress took up the chant and eventually passed the CRA forcing banks to loan out money in the same proportion they took it in from those areas. Sounds fair, right?

    The problem was few, if any, residents of those areas met conventional underwriting criteria. Congress’ solution? Lower the criteria and that’s when the system started to fall apart. They started calling them pulse loans. Anyone with a pulse could get one. And Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac would buy them so why wouldn’t you write them. You collect your fee and pass on the hot potato.

    If you could do it in the former red lined areas and collect a fee why restrict yourself? Lower the underwriting standard for everyone so you can collect more fees. Make the loans so attractive nobody can resist. Enter the sub prime loan. Now record amounts of loans, sub prime loans, are being written and written faster than Fannie Mae and Freddy make can absorb them.

    Enter the big-time scoundrels…Wall Street and their corrupt partners…the rating companies who were in fact paid by the companies the rated as a matter of the daily course of their business. Wall Street bundled up some good mortgages with average mortgages and some really ****ty mortgages, sliced and diced them so one was indistinguishable from the other, securitized them and sold them as A rated bonds because their buddies at the rating agencies rated them as A. True, there were some A rated mortgages in there but there were also a lot of losers. A junk bond rating would have been more applicable. Now comes the 2 brand new problems which compounded things into the crisis were now in and likely will continue to be in for the next several years.

    Against the very strong admonishment of Warren Buffet the SEC allowed the bonds to be sold internationally; effectively poisoning wells all over the world. They were sold to investors, to pension funds, to cities and states and to foreign countries; several of which are now teetering on the brink of insolvency. The last nail was the advent of credit default swaps (CDSs) and derivatives. With the CDSs investors were actually betting on which ones of the bonds would go south or insuring that they wouldn’t. Derivatives were like the line on a football games, setting the odds of a default. My nephew, a hedge fund manager. Told me that at the time Bears Stern was forced upon JP Morgan/Chase they were holding 18 trillion dollars in derivatives and JP Morgan/Chase already had $80T of their own. That’s nearly $100T held by one financial institution!

    Who started this whole thing? The government. Then Wall Street took advantage of it and milked it for everything they could get.

    As to your original question- commercial went thru this in ’01 with the dot com bust and in the late ‘80’s with S&L scandals and the resolution trust. Combined, they weren’t 25% of this. If the credit situation doesn’t get fixed and fixed fast there is more disaster coming. Unlike residential, commercial properties are financed for 3 or 5 years; sometimes 10. At the end they need to be refinanced. If there’s no credit ( they’re all financed with non-recourse loans) the owner will simply give the keys back to the lender. It would be an economic disaster of biblical proportions.



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  11. DarrylS

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    Hope you read this, because is clearly indicates that it is not because of the the CRA... this is what folks have been telling you for weeks.. months.. and you put up an idiotic you tube video...
     
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Can't you read?? You must be blind (something I've been telling you for months. Or is it now years...?):

    [size=+2] "The CRA was a knee jerk reaction to what was definitely a wrong. I was in the banking industry in the late ‘70’s when red lining was a common practice. ..... Community activists cried foul and liberals within congress took up the chant and eventually passed the CRA forcing banks to loan out money in the same proportion they took it in from those areas. Sounds fair, right?

    [highlight]The problem was few, if any, residents of those areas met conventional underwriting criteria. Congress’ solution? Lower the criteria and that’s when the system started to fall apart. They started calling them pulse loans. Anyone with a pulse could get one. And Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac would buy them so why wouldn’t you write them. You collect your fee and pass on the hot potato.[/highlight] ....

    Who started this whole thing? [highlight]The government[/highlight]..... " [/size]


    --------------------------------
    But, you can keep on being blind all you want, "idiotic", even. I know where that will lead you, but you don't care to know. Deaf, dumb, and blind kid,... sure plays a mean pinball....'cept, this ain't "pinball".

    The real sin, however, is when you pass your willful blindness onto others:

    Luke 17:2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. [Matt 18:6; Mark 9:42]

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  13. DarrylS

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    Get all hysterical why don't you.. once again you are coming back with a selective response that begs the issue..

    While CRA loans were a factor, the greed of walls street were the culprits.. see the AIG mess and the derivitive rewards..

    For example I put up a thread the other day about foreclosures, interestingly in Nevada 1 in 69 homes currently face foreclosure, in Az. something like 1 in 170.. the real issue was the lenders who helped average americans they could afford more house than they really could.. these are huge numbers..

    For example Florida is in huge trouble, and it might be thought that Miami would be the big leader in foreclosures.. they have issues, but the affluent side of Ft. Myers has a much higher rate.. in Michigan it might be thought that Detroit has major problems, they do, but Lansing has bigger issues.. things are not what they appear to be. The current economic problem is not because poor people did it, it is because the lenders got greedy and lots of people made big bucks off of this boom..

    Search Foreclosures Nationwide at RealtyTrac
     
  14. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    CRA is what got the ball rolling in the first place.

    Of course government has not learned its lesson, here is an article from a few days ago:

    FDIC Criticizes Massachusetts Bank With No Bad Loans for Being Too Cautious
    So the FDIC is still pressuring banks to make more risky loans via the Community Reinvestment Act.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cra is a coerceive piece of legislation that encouraged the banks to behave badly and penalized the banks if they didn't behave badly...
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    CRA loans are risky, but there are many banks who have acted wisely with this group of loans.. the issue was the greed of the lenders (see the subprime market) and how they were bundled on wall Street.. studies have shown that CRA loans performed better than the subprime loans..

    Poor folks still are poor, while the Wall Street Tycoons, have gotten plenty rich..

    An anecdotal comment from one bank on fox.com does not prove a helluva lot..

    Study Blames Lenders, Not Borrowers for Mortgage Mess

     
  17. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is this the same tax that's being called a tax on CO2? I'm so confused:confused:
     
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Are you sure you're not Everson Walls, because talking with you is LIKE talking to the walls.

    Yo, dude, as my old bud likes to say: read it again. First paragraph: "the cause (of the melt-down) is the government"; the CRA opened the door for the abuse of the mortgage loan system because it effectively removed all heretofore standards for mortgage loans. That opened the flood-gates and, man, did those flood-gates ever open. "Pulse" loans: "if you had a pulse, you got a loan." A prescription for cyanide for the entire world economy.

    No matter how you try to dissemble it, this meltdown started EXACTLY as I've been saying from the get go. The fact that YOU and others like YOU don't like the truth is..... well... tough shiit. No other way to say it. And those responsible WILL be held accountable. They are still in Congress but there are remedies for that mistake, miscarriage of justice.


    Watch this space!!

    Word.

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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  19. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Could you do the forum a favor and spare your attempts at humor. It never works. You just don't have the gift.
     
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Oh, so now you're a humor critic, too. Is there *anything* you're not an "expert" on ????

    I guess after you've drenched yourself in Jon Stewart manure I'm pretty lame. Well....... I proud of it!!! :D

    -------------

    But wait!! No wisdom from you on my old buddy's take on the CRA-instigated melt-down????? I guess for once you're speechless. Totally understandable. No need to apologize.


    :singing:


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    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009

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