The "245" Amorphous D ~ The Next Great Defense??

[mayoclinic]

Umm...

Believe it or not, my friend, Faux Joe ~ "DeCaf", to you Earthlings ~ is all I drink!!

And it's probably all you should drink. The alternative would be truly terrifying.

 

[patchick]

I think that we are already seeing an unprecedented amount of creativity and versatility in the use of defensive personnel - especially front 6/7 personnel - in the college ranks. Alabama used to drop Marcell Dareus into coverage at times (as the Ravens have done with Haloti Ngata) and moved Dont'a Hightower all over the defense while coordinating multiple fronts.

...

Unless the NFL reverts to 15 defenders and we see 4-4-7 schemes, Darwinism will heavily favor prospects who are athletic, versatile, and smart enough to play multiple roles successfully.

I've been thinking about the decline of the so-called base defenses vis a vis the Pats' recent drafts. For instance, I loved Hightower in principle, but had semi-convinced myself that he wasn't a natural target for this team because he fit the classic 3-4 ILB prototype -- a role pretty nicely filled by Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher. Similarly, for the past few drafts people have been scanning closely for the classic 5-technique DE. But how much do those "classic" positions really exist at this point?

Perhaps I would have been better off thinking of Hightower as an uncommonly aware, heady, versatile player with a 'tweener physique, thus a Swiss army knife to serve multiple roles against the hurry-up. And while "the next Richard Seymour" would be a fabulous addition, isn't that because Seymour is a HOF-caliber player? Better, perhaps, to ask what "the next Bobby Hamilton" would add to the team.

I'm curious for others' thoughts about how the decline of the 7-man front has influenced who the Pats did and didn't take in recent drafts.

 

[TB146]

How about a Heisenberg Uncertainty Defense? You can either know WHERE they are OR how FAST they're going, but never BOTH!

Grid, you are truly a treasure on PatsFans. I bet Pherin, JCDavey, Gunnails, etc are jealous that they don't have an OTG equivalent on their Saints, Bolts or Jets fan boards.

 

[ausbacker]

Interesting read OTG. Thanks for that.

 

[Off The Grid]

What do you see as being the optimal personnel prototypes for the Front 6?

A 3-4 NT and a 4-3 DT/3-4 LDE up front; two "Elephants" on the outside; and two 4-3 OLBs in the middle?

Um...pretty much!! :rocker:

I'm starting to drag it, right about now, but I'll answer this a bit better on the morrow, once I've rested!!

 

[Off The Grid]

How about a Heisenberg Uncertainty Defense? You can either know WHERE they are OR how FAST they're going, but never BOTH!

Grid, you are truly a treasure on PatsFans. I bet Pherin, JCDavey, Gunnails, etc are jealous that they don't have an OTG equivalent on their Saints, Bolts or Jets fan boards.

May The God Of Your Choice Bless You, Brother Tom!! :rocker:

That was truly kind of you. Thanks, Man.

I can't wait to get some sleep and then circle back to this, tomorrow: Brother Mayo, Sister Patricia, and others had some posts I'm really looking forward to sinking my teeth into!!

And I'd also intended ~ before we got utterly SWAMPED where I work ~ to tie in a couple of the earlier Threads, perhaps even pulling a quote or two over: This is a vast, fascinating, and vitally important subject, in my view ~ how D's ~ and ours in particular!! ~ are going to react to this decade's dramatic changes in Rules and Regulations ~ and I'm really looking forward to joining in with the discussions that I've seen, hereabouts!!

 

[woolster22]

I believe so.

*Editor's Note: As Always, the following Bits ~ or at least the intelligent parts!! ~ owe a Great Deal to the Author's extensive discussions with Brother MayoClinic, Fellow FootBall Fanatic!!

The "245" Amorphous D ~ The Next Great Defense!!​

Amorphous D ~ Birth of A Bull Market of Deception!!​

First ~ A bit of FootBall History, Ladies + Laddies:

It was in 1880 ~ 132 long and lustrous years ago ~ that the number of Players on the Field was reduced from 15...to 11.

And so the merciless + unrelenting Persecution of Defenses...began!!

"It Starts."​

1880's dramatic Rule Change effected a substantial impact on the Game ~ in favor of the Offense, of course, as all such reductions in Personnel do ~ and consequently demanded not only that the remaining 11 Defenders become far Quicker and Craftier than before...but also that their Alignments become more Flexible, Unpredictable...and Deceptive.

And it established a Trend that has persisted to this very day.

For 132 years, the vast majority of the Paying Public ~ as well as the Innovators who crafted the Games's Evolution before there was a Paying Public ~ have displayed a relentless, ever-increasing appetite for Offense ~ along with a shamefully minimal appreciation for Defense!! ~ as a result of which the Trend of Change in the Game's Rules and Regulations, almost since the Game's very inception, has carved out a 132 Year Offensive Bull Market.

And there's no end in sight.

Time for a gratuitously + unnecessarily confusing + complicated Chart:

Points Per Game Since 1880:​

The sad part is that I actually think I'm being funny.

So, yes: Virtually since The Dawn of FootBall, Defenses have adapted to this Relentless Persecution by becoming increasingly Quicker, Faster, Smaller, and Smarter...And Defensive Coordinators have indeed been compelled to forge Systems and Schemes that have become increasingly Flexible....and increasingly Unpredictable and Deceptive.

And as any Student of Warfare ~ or Football ~ will tell you: The more Flexible, Unpredictable, and Deceptive that you wish to be...the fewer Soldiers you should commit to The Front Line BEFORE the Inception of Battle.

Coach Amos Stagg ~ Revolutionary FREAK!!​

In 1890, The GodFather of all FootBall Revolutionaries ~ Coach Amos Stagg of the SpringField Young Men's Christian Association Training Center, which eventually became SpringField College ~ tore up the Competitive LandScape ~ one of about 8 million times he would do so ~ by trumping the classic "92" Defensive Formation with the introduction of the "722" ~ And in his spare time he played in the very first BasketBall game in History!!

This Relentless Persecution of Defenses would compel numerous Evolutions in Strategy and Scheme in the decades to come, as described eloquently yet understandably by Jene Bremel of the New York Times:

* In the late 1940's, Coach Greasy Neale of the Philadelphia Eagles forged a Dynasty with a dominant "524".

* But on Opening Day 1950, the 2 Time Defending World Champion Eagles were shredded by the phenomenal Tactics of Coach Paul Brown's CleveLand Browns...and the rest of the NFL scrambled, in more or less sheer panic, to try to find some way to combat this new and Revolutionary CleveLand Offense. The result: The "43".

* In the 1970's, we saw the rise of the "34". It receded in the 1980's, but is now rapidly taking over the Game.

Time for another gratuitously complex + complicated Chart to illustrate the Point:

Number of Base Defensive Down Linemen Since 1880:​

Yes, but at least I'm amusing myself.

So I've got that going for me.

Which is nice.

1880 ~ 11 Men on the Line of Scrimmage in Base Defense.

2011 ~ 3 or 4.

You, um...get the picture.

What Does The Future Hold?​

The Running Game hasn't been outlawed ~ yet ~ so it might be a bit premature, at this point, to field 11 CornerBacks.

But we're seeing the first signs, ere the last few years, of even Smaller, more Flexible, and less Decipherable Defenses gaining Market Share with some of the bolder, more creative Defensive Coordinators and Head Coaches:

* New EngLand Patriots ~ the 155!!

* PittsBurgh Steelers ~ the 245 + 155!!

* GreenBay Packers ~ Nickel + Psycho Packages!!

* Seattle SeaHawks ~ the Amoeba Defense!!

Mind you: all of these are instances of the "155" and the "245" being employed as Sub Packages.

Nobody's talking about installing the "155" or the "245" as a Base Package.

Well, except for me.

Well otg, I respect what you have to say, as I can generally agree with your argument. However, your nobody is talking argument... http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?p=3071988 ...I was referred to rolling into another thread, where all you did was directly suggest a 155 (with Vince as your one and a strong flexible five, sign me up...) and changed amoeba to amorphus. While you (in no way argue this point) hold the greater general knowledge, we have been mentioning this for a while. Go ahead, look me up. I'm somewhere claiming spikes is draft replacement, predraft. I never said Hightower because I never thought we would trade up...BB history. I have also said for a while is about to time to trade in (draft surplus that is), as many have been wildly speculating since mayo under the assumption there is bound to be a year or two against norm.

I love the less players more disguise aspect, and I feel this is where bb had been moving the d. Lon at the recent additions...I know I was pining for haynesworth/Vince simply on the idea of a two man dominant base to provide help to a weak lb core. Again search it, I know I loved the pick up and would back the risk reward again in a shortened season with a hole at dl... Hell, give me a past producer as AH and a similar situation and I would sign off immediately assuming a VW type dt to pair. The upside is too spectacular...look at ray Lewis' success.

Now look at our draft...bequette/jones...d-end olb tweeners, both at different, complimenting levels I'd the spectrum. Hightower gets added to spikes and mayo, pre loaded with some de experience...Vince, fanene...I am in live with this defense, and expect it to live up to the earlier decades precedent. Difference is bb figured out how to manage a top 5 o while building a fantastic group of YOUNG, SKILLED, players on d. Next year we go dt ol in the first four rounds, with one db, plus one bpa/trade out.

Again, I love hearing your opinion, this time however, you are off base (only in so much as nobody has said it).

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[patsfan13]

What do you see as being the optimal personnel prototypes for the Front 6?

A 3-4 NT and a 4-3 DT/3-4 LDE up front; two "Elephants" on the outside; and two 4-3 OLBs in the middle?

In the BB world situations and the opposition's strenght's/weaknesses
will dictate the personel up fromt.


Remember each week is a different gameplan in PatriotWorld.

 

[patsfan13]

It's very late and will have to revisit this thread tomorrow when I am more coherent.

A couple of points this evening, the OP in terms of presentation & content is as good as any I have ever seen in the History of PatsFans, huge hat tip to the Almighty Gridmaster.

When loooking at prospective rosters I have been selecting 10 and considering 11 DB's. I think that our 'base' D most weeks will include 5 DB's.

I have seen a mix of at least 6 CB on the roster for this reason. I could see W Allen ending up as one of the Safties.

As to the front, last year we saw a hybrid front that mixed single and two gap on the same play. If we have the correct talent on the roster we can have the flexibility to confuse the QB reads and blocking schemes as to who is coming to rush and from where.

In the front Wilfolk is the key is ability to control 2 gaps ans occupt at least 2 OL on each play goves BB the opportuniyt to use other OL for penatration as happened with A Carter last year.

P Kirwan in the Pats preview last week talked about C Jones, Hightower and Bequette projecting into (in order) Willie MAc, TedyB & M Vrabel. One of the things about these players was their ability to be both DL + LB roles (with off the chart football IQ's) We haven't had players Who had those skills to confuse the QB and OL calls in awhile. Hope we have it this year.

With the off season moves this is perhaps the most excited I have been about the Pats prospects ever.

 

[mayoclinic]

Basically it seems like your saying sub packages are now the norm, no matter what you call them. Not really breaking news. However I'd be more inclined to say the NFL has become a matchup game on D. If your opponent is a smash mouth run heavy yet efficient team (relative to league averages I mean), I'm not quite sure a 245 would be the Next Great D to stop it.

You need to have the best personnel to scheme across multiple styles, with ability to execute it at high level, intelligence to quickly implement (which usually hinges on basic high football IQ) , and of course the field general to pull it all together and change it on the fly. That's the best D to stop that weeks oppopnent, no matter what you decide to call it that week.

Or in other words, a D that can equally dominate in 3-4, 4-3, Nick, Dime, Quarter and Hyrbrid/Amorphous... Now THAT'S the next great D.

I've been thinking about the decline of the so-called base defenses vis a vis the Pats' recent drafts. For instance, I loved Hightower in principle, but had semi-convinced myself that he wasn't a natural target for this team because he fit the classic 3-4 ILB prototype -- a role pretty nicely filled by Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher. Similarly, for the past few drafts people have been scanning closely for the classic 5-technique DE. But how much do those "classic" positions really exist at this point?

Perhaps I would have been better off thinking of Hightower as an uncommonly aware, heady, versatile player with a 'tweener physique, thus a Swiss army knife to serve multiple roles against the hurry-up. And while "the next Richard Seymour" would be a fabulous addition, isn't that because Seymour is a HOF-caliber player? Better, perhaps, to ask what "the next Bobby Hamilton" would add to the team.

I'm curious for others' thoughts about how the decline of the 7-man front has influenced who the Pats did and didn't take in recent drafts.

BB spoke pretty openly after the draft about how much time the team spent in "sub packages" and how the game was getting more spread out, and how that influenced the direction the team went in the draft. So I think that was a major factor. Though I agree with pdangle's assessment as well regarding the ability to play multiple schemes and vary the amount of 5, 6, and 7 man fronts depending on the offensive strengths of the opposing team. So I think that BB was strongly influenced towards guys who fit in a 6 man "base", but also wanted guys who had schematic versatility.

I also think that BB has always been more flexible than the majority of the league to build his defense around his players' strengths, rather than force fit players into a given approach. If we had Richard Seymour and Ty Warren in their prime next to Vince Wilfork circa 2006 I think we'd be playing a lot more 3 of a 3 man base, regardless of the number of DBs on the field. I think BB tends to identify his core players and build around their strengths. If they can do multiple things, then that opens up other options. Vince Wilfork's maturation into more than "just" a dominant 3-4 NT combined with the loss of Seymour and the atrophy of Warren's health and skills all contributed to moving away from a pure 3-4 base. With Wilfork heading towards the downside of his career - a terrible but necessary thought to contemplate - and Seymour and Warren gone, and with Mayo, Spikes and hopefully Jones and Hightower as the future core of the front 6/7, I'm assuming BB will want to build around those guys' skill sets. Unless BB envisions Jones and Hightower as predominantly 3-4 OLBs with Mayo and Spikes inside, I don't see him focusing on a traditional 3-4 base as much as he did from 2003-2009 or to prioritize drafting prototypical 3-4 DEs in the future, though I'm sure we'll still play some 3-4 and he will want guys who have the ability to play that role.

As for Hightower, I tend to think of him as hopefully becoming what Adalius Thomas should have been - a Swiss Army knife kind of guy who can play all over the front 6/7 in multiple schemes and fronts, and with the kind of leadership skills and processing/coordination capability to help function as an on field defensive coordinator. That's a lot to ask for, and he could end up doing much less than that and still be an outstanding pick, but a guy who can play that kind of role would have tremendous value in a multiple front hybrid defense - which seems to be the kind of role and value he had for Nick Saban at Alabama.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well otg, I respect what you have to say, as I can generally agree with your argument. However, your nobody is talking argument... Amoeba 2-4-5 - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard ...I was referred to rolling into another thread, where all you did was directly suggest a 155 (with Vince as your one and a strong flexible five, sign me up...) and changed amoeba to amorphus. While you (in no way argue this point) hold the greater general knowledge, we have been mentioning this for a while. Go ahead, look me up. I'm somewhere claiming spikes is draft replacement, predraft. I never said Hightower because I never thought we would trade up...BB history. I have also said for a while is about to time to trade in (draft surplus that is), as many have been wildly speculating since mayo under the assumption there is bound to be a year or two against norm.

I love the less players more disguise aspect, and I feel this is where bb had been moving the d. Lon at the recent additions...I know I was pining for haynesworth/Vince simply on the idea of a two man dominant base to provide help to a weak lb core. Again search it, I know I loved the pick up and would back the risk reward again in a shortened season with a hole at dl... Hell, give me a past producer as AH and a similar situation and I would sign off immediately assuming a VW type dt to pair. The upside is too spectacular...look at ray Lewis' success.

Now look at our draft...bequette/jones...d-end olb tweeners, both at different, complimenting levels I'd the spectrum. Hightower gets added to spikes and mayo, pre loaded with some de experience...Vince, fanene...I am in live with this defense, and expect it to live up to the earlier decades precedent. Difference is bb figured out how to manage a top 5 o while building a fantastic group of YOUNG, SKILLED, players on d. Next year we go dt ol in the first four rounds, with one db, plus one bpa/trade out.

Again, I love hearing your opinion, this time however, you are off base (only in so much as nobody has said it)

You're entirely right, and several others have been on that bandwagon as well, including myself, for a long time. Fencer in particular has contributed some nice thoughts on the subject of the future direction of the defensive front 6/7. And there have been any number of threads in which we've discussed the concept:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...14171-clues-next-years-defensive-scheme.html
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...14801-how-will-front-6-look-next-season.html
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/919274-sub-vs-base-who-plays-when.html
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...d/10/918347-evolution-belichick-defense.html

None of which - as you note - diminishes the scope of Grid's OP. And, in typical Grid fashion, he is pushing the limits of what others have proposed in the sense of suggesting that a 2-4-5 or 1-5-5 scheme could be the "base" rather than a package used in limited situations. But you are certainly correct, and I'm sure Grid would agree, that none of the thoughts in the OP evolved in a vacuum.

 

[mayoclinic]

In the BB world situations and the opposition's strenght's/weaknesses will dictate the personel up front. Remember each week is a different gameplan in PatriotWorld.

Absolutely. Not to mention the health/availability of the Pats' own personnel. The loss of Andre Carter last year certainly influenced the shift towards the use of more 3-4 fronts towards the latter part of the season and the post-season. BB is above all a pragmatist.

A couple of points this evening, the OP in terms of presentation & content is as good as any I have ever seen in the History of PatsFans, huge hat tip to the Almighty Gridmaster.

Amen to that. And all achieved without the benefit of caffeinated beverages. Truly staggering. Grid has been working on this for months, and the level of thought and amount of work put into this is awesome.

When loooking at prospective rosters I have been selecting 10 and considering 11 DB's. I think that our 'base' D most weeks will include 5 DB's.

I have seen a mix of at least 6 CB on the roster for this reason. I could see W Allen ending up as one of the Safties.

If 5 DBs is becoming the norm and 6 will be as common as 4, then it certainly makes sense to carry more DBs on the roster. There will be a tremendous roster crunch no matter how you slice it. 10-11 DBs leaves only 14-15 "front" roster spots, and that would generate tremendous pressure. It will be interesting to see what actually shakes out.

As to the front, last year we saw a hybrid front that mixed single and two gap on the same play. If we have the correct talent on the roster we can have the flexibility to confuse the QB reads and blocking schemes as to who is coming to rush and from where.

In the front Wilfolk is the key is ability to control 2 gaps and occupy at least 2 OL on each play goves BB the opportunity to use other DL for penatration as happened with A Carter last year.

The Grantland article from just before the SuperBowl has eloquently described VW's role in the evolving defense and the mix of concepts and schemes into a hybrid defense.

Bill Belichick, Vince Wilfork, and the New England Patriots defense - Grantland

That article also outlined the need for better personnel to more effectively execute some of the ideas. Nothing that BB has done in the offseason runs counter to the ideas expressed in that article.

P Kirwan in the Pats preview last week talked about C Jones, Hightower and Bequette projecting into (in order) Willie MAc, TedyB & M Vrabel. One of the things about these players was their ability to be both DL + LB roles (with off the chart football IQ's) We haven't had players Who had those skills to confuse the QB and OL calls in awhile. Hope we have it this year.

With the off season moves this is perhaps the most excited I have been about the Pats prospects ever.

Amen to that, too. And there is some staggering defensive talent for 2013, which should help even more. It's hard not to be excited about the short- and long-term potential for the defense.

 

[woolster22]

I tried quoting two posts up but my app is being a PITA...

Grid is right in his pushing of the two four five/One fifty five as the ideal base. In order to do so you need two typical 43/34 tweeters, two attention hogging dts, then two more lbs who can both stuff the run and engage in the passing game. That leaves five DBS to be used as seen fit. Say bequette can cover a rb/te in the flat. This makes he and Hightower stacked and roaming much more difficult to project than many options on last year's roster, simply on the basis of what would be reasonable to try, reward and risk be damned.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[mayoclinic]

Grid is right in his pushing of the two four five/One fifty five as the ideal base. In order to do so you need two typical 43/34 tweeters, two attention hogging dts, then two more lbs who can both stuff the run and engage in the passing game. That leaves five DBS to be used as seen fit. Say bequette can cover a rb/te in the flat. This makes he and Hightower stacked and roaming much more difficult to project than many options on last year's roster, simply on the basis of what would be reasonable to try, reward and risk be damned.

That's a great one sentence description of what you need on the front 6. In fact, ideally, your front 6 ought to be able to morph between a 1-5 and a 5-1 and anything in-between: 2-4, 4-2, and 3-3 formations, without changing personnel.

Looking at your description in more detail:

- Two attention hogging DTs. Absolutely. This is one reason that I (and others) wanted the Pats to take a DT in the 2012 draft to pair with Wilfork inside. Kyle Love, Jonathan Fanene, Myron Pryor, Gerrard Warren and Brandon Deaderick are adequate players, but none is an ideal attention hogging DT who can dominate when paired with Wilfork as the base in a 2-4-5. Ideally you want that DT to be able to also play DE in a 3-3-5, or even move around in a 1-5-5, so your ideal player is a guy who has a ridiculous combination of size, strength and movement skills. Fanene probably comes closest right now, but the ideal would be a guy like Haloti Ngata. As you noted earlier, that's part of why the prospect of pairing Wilfork with Albert Haynesworth was so exciting last year, and so disappointing when Haynesworth turned out to be Haynesworth. Getting someone of that ilk would be a huge difference maker. Star Lotulelei and Jesse Williams in the 2013 draft are good examples of enormous guys (6'3"-6'4" and 320-330#) with ridiculous athleticism and movement skills who could be dominant in that kind of role. Johnathan Hankins from Ohio St. John Jenkins from Georgia and Brandon Moore from Texas are also very interesting. Getting another dominant attention hogging DT to pair with Wilfork is probably my top priority for 2013.

- Two more LBs who can both stuff the run and engage in the passing game. Perfect description. In fact, ideally you want LBs who can move up onto the DL in a 5-1 and who have enough range to be the lone midfielder in that scheme, who can drop into coverage, who can play sideline-to-sideline and who can stuff the run with some pop. Right now it looks like Jerod Mayo, Dont'a Hightower, Rob Ninkovich, Dane Fletcher and Bobby Carpenter are all capable of playing that role. Brandon Spikes is limited in coverage and in his range, but does the other things pretty darn well. This is a huge strength of the team right now.

- Two typical 43/34 tweeners. This is the trickiest part. If you want to morph between a 2-4-5 and a 4-2-5 then you need 2 guys who can play 4-3 RDE and LDE but who can also play standing up and drop into coverage. But if you want to be able to play a 3-3-5 then you also want them to be powerful enough to act as 2-gapping 3-4 DEs on occasion. That's a pretty tall order. So you need guys who are ideally 6'4" or taller, 270# or bigger, with 4.7 speed and the lateral agility to drop into coverage on occasion, and who are strong enough and have the stack-and-shed ability to 2-gap. Chandler Jones and Jake Bequette may fit that bill, though ideally you'd like your LDE to be even more powerful than Bequette. That's part of what I think BB was hoping Shaun Ellis could provide last year - Ellis in his prime was a 285# guy who could play 3-4 DE, 4-3 LDE and who was athletic enough to stand up in coverage (Eric Mangini described using him that way for the Jets). Unfortunately Ellis was pretty much done. JJ Watt and Cameron Jordan clearly have that kind of versatility and athleticism. A guy like Margus Hunt from SMU or Devin Taylor from South Carolina (bulked up a bit) could be a beast in that kind of role.

Imagine having 6'5 1/2" 275# (assuming he bulks up a bit) Chandler Jones at LDE and 6'8" 290# Margus Hunt at RDE, both with 4.7 speed, and Wilfork and another DT like Jesse Williams in the middle, with Hightower and Mayo behind them. Bequette could be brought in for Williams or Wilfork on clear pass rushing situations, or Hightower moved up on the DL, or one of Hightower or both DTs pulled with a 6th DB added. That would be a tremendously versatile defense, and with exceptional depth when you factor in guys like Fanene, Love, Ninkovich, Spikes, Carpenter and Fletcher.

Ithink the Pats should be pretty well positioned to play some interesting defensive schemes in 2012. But I also think they are about 2 "front" players and 1 DB away from having a truly dominant set of defensive personnel.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Don't have time to organize my thoughts so I'll post them in raw form and maybe come back later:

Things BB seems o be moving towards
Atheletic mismatches. Gronk + Hernandez

Hybrids - the key to the amorphous offense/defense
Offense
TE/WR/HB - Hernandez.
Faulk and woodhead to a lesser degree. RB, Blitz pickup, WR

Defense
DT/DE - Wilfork
DE/OLB - McGinest/Vrable?
ILB/OLB - Vrable/Bruschi
SS/LB - Been lookign for one of these since Rodney retired

Specialists - People who do their job so well they're perfect for the rolee
Brady. While not athletic his intangibles are highly tangible.
Gronk. While just a TE and a Hybrid by position, he does everything well that a TE should do and just a physical mismatch period!
Welker. Slot receiver

Gimmicks
BB doesn't seem to run the gimmicks too much.

Defense in the post season has the gloves off - build towards this. Even to the point of taking a win or two away in the regular season? Though this seems to take resources away from your best player TB. so, I'm not sure how well that would go over with BB or people in general.


And I think (in all good ways possible) OTG has squarely left the grid with his presentation (quite a bit of work puttign that all together). I don't eve think he can see the grid with a high poweredset of binoculars...definitly into telescopes at this time

 

[hovis]

I'm interested in what the "starting lineup" will be if this were the "base" defense this year.

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that the Patriots adjust based on matchups, that this is nothing new, and that the "starting lineup" and "base" defense would not be on the field at all times. The following is an attempt to predict what players will be on the field most often and in what position, assuming they're all healthy and performing as expected.

DT: Wilfork / Fanene

LB (Right to Left): Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Ninkovich

Some may disagree with this grouping, but I'll take Hightower and Ninko over Spikes based on versatility.

CB: McCourty, Arrington

Safety: Chung, Wilson, Gregory

 

[Ring 6]

I'm interested in what the "starting lineup" will be if this were the "base" defense this year.

Disclaimer: I'm well aware that the Patriots adjust based on matchups, that this is nothing new, and that the "starting lineup" and "base" defense would not be on the field at all times. The following is an attempt to predict what players will be on the field most often and in what position, assuming they're all healthy and performing as expected.

DT: Wilfork / Fanene

LB (Right to Left): Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Ninkovich

Some may disagree with this grouping, but I'll take Hightower and Ninko over Spikes based on versatility.

CB: McCourty, Arrington

Safety: Chung, Wilson, Gregory

I think you would see 3 corners, not 3 safeties.
The 2 LB spots (I consider this a 4-2 not a 2-4) are not necessarily ILBs. Nink (and Vrabel before him) plays the off the line LB role as well.
Hightower is a wild card. He seems able to play any LB position, and one of the most interesting things in camp is going to be seeing how is used.
On the outside, Cunningham, Scott and Bequette, as well as Carter if he signs, would be in the mix as well, which is one reason it is unliekly we will see Ninko there a lot.

 

[patsfan13]

In the secondary I would see McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Gregory and Chung as the 'base' starters.


Hard to project the starters for the front 6 at this time since there are potentially 3 rookies in the mix (Hightower, Jones & Bequette).

We can say for certain that Mayo & Wilfolk will fill 2 of the six slots. If A Carter is healthy IMO he will be signed and be a starter also.

1 point that OTG brought up that I have thought about is that the reason for sub grouping pkgs is that teams have players not good enough to be starters. IMO the Pats have accumulated a lot of D players good enough to be starters depending on shceme (we have used a lot of high draft picks on the the past few years). So who starts in the fron on a given week could vary based on the opponent.

 

[Marqui]

Two attention hogging DTs. Absolutely. This is one reason that I (and others) wanted the Pats to take a DT in the 2012 draft to pair with Wilfork inside. Kyle Love, Jonathan Fanene, Myron Pryor, Gerrard Warren and Brandon Deaderick are adequate players, but none is an ideal attention hogging DT who can dominate when paired with Wilfork as the base in a 2-4-5. Ideally you want that DT to be able to also play DE in a 3-3-5, or even move around in a 1-5-5, so your ideal player is a guy who has a ridiculous combination of size, strength and movement skills.

Would you have payed Red Bryant 7 mil a year to do that job?

 

[Reckedtrek]

Umm...

Believe it or not, my friend, Faux Joe ~ "DeCaf", to you Earthlings ~ is all I drink!!

That's some scary **** right there!

Grid you totally rock! My hat's off to you!

:rocker: