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The 2008 Uncle Heatster Horizontal Sort


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Easy for you to say that about something neither you or I will ever see. That's like saying I cringe at you seeing Gisele Bundchen's panties.
Not GONNA HAPPEN.

Now if you have nothing else of merit to add, why don't you give your own rankings? I haven't seen so much as a mock draft from you.

And you won't see a mock from me for at least another month. Why? Because I wait until free agency has settled down and most of the pro days are done.

Heatster didn't offer a MOCK in this thread. He offered his ratings on players and where he felt they'd offer the best value for the Patriots. Nothing more, nothing less..

Also, none of what you said changes the fact that it was Heatster's PERSONAL draft board and its done, actually very similarly to the way the Patriots do theirs. How do I know this? Because of the article that came out 3 years ago on this very topic where Belichick explained how the Patriots set up their draft boards. And there have been plenty of people who have chimed in in this regard.
 
Hello again. This list could be added to or subtracted from depending on extraordinary workouts, Injury or Character red flags, or whatever, but if I'm Bill Belichick, and we're all glad that I'm not, here's how my draft value board stands today:

Tier 1 -- Value #1-#8
Jake Long OT Michigan
Chris Long LB Virginia
Glenn Dorsey DE Georgia Tech

Tier 2 -- Value #9-#20
Sedric Ellis DE USC
Vernon Gholston LB Ohio St
Ryan Clady OT Boise St
Quentin Groves LB Auburn
Leodis McKelvin CB Troy

Tier 3 -- Value #21-#35
Chad Henne QB Michigan
Felix Jones RB Arkansas
Andre Caldwell WR Florida
Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
Devin Thomas WR Michigan St
Limas Sweed WR Texas
Early Doucett WR LSU
Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt
Brandon Albert G Virginia
Derrick Harvey LB Florida
Kentwan Balmer DE North Carolina
Aqib Talib CB Kansas

Tier 4 -- Value #36-#55
Joe Flacco QB Delaware
Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt
James Hardy WR Indiana
Anthony Collins OT Kansas
Gosder Cherilus OT Boston College
Cliff Avril LB Purdue
Erin Henderson LB Maryland
Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee
Johnathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
Red Bryant NT Texas A&M
Tracy Porter CB Indiana
Branden Flowers CB Virginia Tech
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee St
Antoine Cason CB Arizona
Reggie Smith DB Oklahoma

Tier 5 -- Value #56-#75
Matt Forte RB Tulane
Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
Eric Young G Tennessee
Ezra Butler LB Nevada
Pat Sims DE Auburn
Marcus Harrison DE Arkansas
Trevor Laws DE Notre Dame
Patrick Lee CB Auburn
Quentin Demps S UTEP

Tier 6 -- Value #76-#100
Chris Johnson RB East Carolina
Oneil Cousins OL UTEP
Charles Godfrey CB Iowa
Chevis Jackson DB LSU
Simeon Castille DB Alabama
Tom Zbikowski S Notre Dame
Jamar Adams S Michigan
Josh Barrett S Arizona St

Tier 7 -- Value #101-#125
Josh Johnson QB San Diego
Kevin Smith RB Central Florida
Owen Schmitt FB/TE West Virginia
Jacob Hester RB LSU
Brad Cottam TE Tennessee
John Greco OT Toledo
Mike Pollack C Arizona St
Stanford Keglar LB Purdue
Jeremy Thompson LB Wake Forest
Ahtyba Rubin NT Iowa St
Frank Okam NT Texas

Tier 8 -- Value #126-#150
Erik Ainge QB Tennessee
Ray Rice RB Rutgers
Lavelle Hawkins WR California
Craig Stevens TE California
Kellen Davis TE Michigan St
Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech
Drew Radovich G USC
Jeremy Zuttah G Rutgers
Kory Lichtensteiger C Bowling Green
John Sullivan C Notre Dame
Chase Ortiz ILB TCU
Dwight Lowery CB San Jose St
Jonathan Zenon CB LSU
Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
Craig Steltz S LSU

Tier 9 -- Value #151-#200
Sam Kellar QB Nebraska
Thomas Brown RB Georgia
Justin Forsett RB California
Peyton Hillis FB Texas
Chauncey Washington RB USC
Jalen Parmele RB Toledo
Marcus Henry WR Kansas
Paul Hubbard WR Wisconsin
Jerome Simpson WR Coastal Carolina
Gary Barnidge TE Louisville
Drew Miller C Florida
Trevor Scott LB Buffalo
Gary Guyton LB Georgia Tech
Jameel McClain LB Syracuse
Hilee Taylor LB North Carolina
Jeremy Leman LB Illinois
Nick Hayden DE Wisconsin
Jack Ikeguonu CB Wisconsin
Bob Williams S Bethune-Cookman

Tier 10 -- Value #201-UDFA
Seth Adams QB Mississippi
Albert Young RB Iowa
Marcus Thomas RB UTEP
Keon Lattimore RB Maryland
Justin Beaver RB Wisconsin - Whitewater
Bo Ruud ILB Nebraska
Roderick Johnson ILB Oklahoma St
Jason Thornhill ILB Michigan St

I think you're over-rating that group of wr's. I don't think there is a sure-shot 1st round pick in the bunch this year.

Where are the rb's? I think there are 3 sure-fire 1st round picks. D.McFadden, R.Mendenhall and J. Stewart. I think Mendenhall might have the best NFL body of the 3. Reminds me of Ronnie Brown except faster. J.Charles could have a good career as a kevin faulk type back too.

Don't see Otah from pitt on your lost. You're leaving some guys who are going to drafted completely off of your list. You might eliminate McFadden for character reasons. I understand that. But, what's wrong with the guys I mentioned?
 
Interesting you put Chris Long as a LB. It looks like he may be losing weight as his 272 at the combine was the lowest I've seen him listed at. Do you think he's trying to market himself as a replacement to Jason Taylor? :)

Long was a 3-4 DE at Virginia. Besides running for 15 seconds in pre-defined directions at the Combine, I'm not sure why anyone thinks he will be an effective OLB. I'm not saying he can't be, just that there is little to no evidence to make a judgement. That is fine for a 3rd round conversion project. Not so much for #7 overall.
 
nice work heatster,


one little nitpick. Dorsey went to LSU
 
No Curtis Lofton?
 
I think Heatster did a great job with his list. I may not agree with all of them (Ray Rice in the 4th round, are you nuts?) but I agree that Jenkins isn't in the 2nd tier when it comes to the Patriots. I haven't likes Jenkins at all for the Patriots, in all honesty. Jenkins is probably a player who will end up playing free safety sooner rather than later with those tight hips and bad transition skills.

Jenkins actually had the worst 3 cone, broad jump, 10 yard split and shuttle of the top 5 CBs (Jenkins, Talib, Cason, McKelvin, and D R-C).

No two lists will be the same, I agree the Heat Man did a nice job. It is more of a theoretical exercise than a precise science, makes for good debate.

My money is on Jenkins getting drafted between 10 & 20.
 
Long was a 3-4 DE at Virginia. Besides running for 15 seconds in pre-defined directions at the Combine, I'm not sure why anyone thinks he will be an effective OLB. I'm not saying he can't be, just that there is little to no evidence to make a judgement. That is fine for a 3rd round conversion project. Not so much for #7 overall.

Your absolutely right. The same goes for Gholston. Neither of these guy have proven anything in pass coverage. BB and Pioli would have to put a lot of trust in that they could teach them the position and they would pick it up quick. Not a very easy thing todo in their 3-4 scheme. If one guy can do it though it would be Long. The guy is a technician. Gholston? Well he may just have to come in on passing downs and learn as he goes. Hopefully is athleticism will get him through.
 
Your absolutely right. The same goes for Gholston. Neither of these guy have proven anything in pass coverage. BB and Pioli would have to put a lot of trust in that they could teach them the position and they would pick it up quick. Not a very easy thing todo in their 3-4 scheme. If one guy can do it though it would be Long. The guy is a technician. Gholston? Well he may just have to come in on passing downs and learn as he goes. Hopefully is athleticism will get him through.

OLBs/DEs are paid to get to the QB, everything else can be taught, learned or refined. A top 10 pass rusher better be able to get to the QB, they won't be chasing WRs down the field. At most they will be asked to slide into a short zone but if they are not dynamic and can't get to the QB they have absolutely no value.
 
Nice effort with the tiered lists. And anyone who has problems with the way they're slotted, would be shaking their head at Belichick's draft board. :eek:

Find the players who fit the Pats profile -- ignore the consensus rankings.
 
There is lots of difference between 9 and 20, especially when we pick 7th. As we get closer, we may need to split the group in two. Of course, many have your Tier Two players in the top 12 or so, but then that's one of the reason's why we appreciate the work you put in on this each year.


Hello again. This list could be added to or subtracted from depending on extraordinary workouts, Injury or Character red flags, or whatever, but if I'm Bill Belichick, and we're all glad that I'm not, here's how my draft value board stands today:

Tier 1 -- Value #1-#8
Jake Long OT Michigan
Chris Long LB Virginia
Glenn Dorsey DE Georgia Tech

Tier 2 -- Value #9-#20
Sedric Ellis DE USC
Vernon Gholston LB Ohio St
Ryan Clady OT Boise St
Quentin Groves LB Auburn
Leodis McKelvin CB Troy

Tier 3 -- Value #21-#35
Chad Henne QB Michigan
Felix Jones RB Arkansas
Andre Caldwell WR Florida
Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
Devin Thomas WR Michigan St
Limas Sweed WR Texas
Early Doucett WR LSU
Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt
Brandon Albert G Virginia
Derrick Harvey LB Florida
Kentwan Balmer DE North Carolina
Aqib Talib CB Kansas

Tier 4 -- Value #36-#55
Joe Flacco QB Delaware
Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt
James Hardy WR Indiana
Anthony Collins OT Kansas
Gosder Cherilus OT Boston College
Cliff Avril LB Purdue
Erin Henderson LB Maryland
Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee
Johnathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
Red Bryant NT Texas A&M
Tracy Porter CB Indiana
Branden Flowers CB Virginia Tech
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee St
Antoine Cason CB Arizona
Reggie Smith DB Oklahoma

Tier 5 -- Value #56-#75
Matt Forte RB Tulane
Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
Eric Young G Tennessee
Ezra Butler LB Nevada
Pat Sims DE Auburn
Marcus Harrison DE Arkansas
Trevor Laws DE Notre Dame
Patrick Lee CB Auburn
Quentin Demps S UTEP

Tier 6 -- Value #76-#100
Chris Johnson RB East Carolina
Oneil Cousins OL UTEP
Charles Godfrey CB Iowa
Chevis Jackson DB LSU
Simeon Castille DB Alabama
Tom Zbikowski S Notre Dame
Jamar Adams S Michigan
Josh Barrett S Arizona St

Tier 7 -- Value #101-#125
Josh Johnson QB San Diego
Kevin Smith RB Central Florida
Owen Schmitt FB/TE West Virginia
Jacob Hester RB LSU
Brad Cottam TE Tennessee
John Greco OT Toledo
Mike Pollack C Arizona St
Stanford Keglar LB Purdue
Jeremy Thompson LB Wake Forest
Ahtyba Rubin NT Iowa St
Frank Okam NT Texas

Tier 8 -- Value #126-#150
Erik Ainge QB Tennessee
Ray Rice RB Rutgers
Lavelle Hawkins WR California
Craig Stevens TE California
Kellen Davis TE Michigan St
Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech
Drew Radovich G USC
Jeremy Zuttah G Rutgers
Kory Lichtensteiger C Bowling Green
John Sullivan C Notre Dame
Chase Ortiz ILB TCU
Dwight Lowery CB San Jose St
Jonathan Zenon CB LSU
Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
Craig Steltz S LSU

Tier 9 -- Value #151-#200
Sam Kellar QB Nebraska
Thomas Brown RB Georgia
Justin Forsett RB California
Peyton Hillis FB Texas
Chauncey Washington RB USC
Jalen Parmele RB Toledo
Marcus Henry WR Kansas
Paul Hubbard WR Wisconsin
Jerome Simpson WR Coastal Carolina
Gary Barnidge TE Louisville
Drew Miller C Florida
Trevor Scott LB Buffalo
Gary Guyton LB Georgia Tech
Jameel McClain LB Syracuse
Hilee Taylor LB North Carolina
Jeremy Leman LB Illinois
Nick Hayden DE Wisconsin
Jack Ikeguonu CB Wisconsin
Bob Williams S Bethune-Cookman

Tier 10 -- Value #201-UDFA
Seth Adams QB Mississippi
Albert Young RB Iowa
Marcus Thomas RB UTEP
Keon Lattimore RB Maryland
Justin Beaver RB Wisconsin - Whitewater
Bo Ruud ILB Nebraska
Roderick Johnson ILB Oklahoma St
Jason Thornhill ILB Michigan St
 
nice work heatster,


one little nitpick. Dorsey went to LSU

Jeebus, how'd that happen? That's not a little nitpick, but a rather significant one. Thanks.
 
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Long was a 3-4 DE at Virginia. Besides running for 15 seconds in pre-defined directions at the Combine, I'm not sure why anyone thinks he will be an effective OLB. I'm not saying he can't be, just that there is little to no evidence to make a judgement. That is fine for a 3rd round conversion project. Not so much for #7 overall.

To be honest, I think Long's ultimate position could be ILB.

Clearing up some other issues:

For me, I think that some of the WR's are just a little too high. I cannot think of a single wide reciever that I would give a first round grade to for any team, let alone the patriots, but that is just me.

I agree that there are no really clear-cut #1 WRs in the draft, although the five listed here could be in the right environment. It is a value game, though, and I feel those guys have late first-early second value. Maybe into the middle of the second round, but I've tried to widen tiers before and it just gets sloppy. But if I'm Belichick, and somebody on that list is available at #69, I'd consider drafting him.

Also, I do not see the name Beau Bell on that list anywhere. Is this by design or just a name that you may have forgotten? I bring him up because I think he fits the Patriots system perfectly inside and he is a playmaker. Thoughts?

I feel Bell is horribly overrated by this board, because he's projected to be an ILB, which we always talk about as a need. It seems all scouts agree that he is stiff and struggles to move laterally. We'll see at his Pro Day, if he does mobility drills. But the thinking is the shuttles and 3-Cone are going to be off the charts in the wrong direction. He's also on the short side with short arms, which is another handicap.

Where are the rb's? I think there are 3 sure-fire 1st round picks. D.McFadden, R.Mendenhall and J. Stewart. I think Mendenhall might have the best NFL body of the 3. Reminds me of Ronnie Brown except faster. J.Charles could have a good career as a kevin faulk type back too.

Remember, I'm operating from the standpoint of Patriots brass, and IMO there's no way they can justify taking an RB in the first round, not with clear needs (and solutions available) at LB and CB (and I would argue OL) and the presence of a very good, former first round pick RB on the roster. Forget what you read about how Maroney and McFadden would be a dynamite 1-2 punch. I'll say the same thing I said to the Marshawn Lynch fans last year....unless Belichick is planning on giving the greatest offense in the history of the NFL a total overhaul, we're a one-back offense, and while every team needs to have a good back-up running back, it's not smart to use a #1 pick acquire one. So, while I love Stewart, and I think Mendenhall and McFadden will have good NFL careers, they would have to fall to the late second round. In fact, I have Felix Jones on my list too, because on my first list he was regarded as late 2/early 3 talent. It looks like he's moved into the top 40 picks, so I could probably remove him too. Besides Jones, the guys you see on my list are guys like Forte, Brown, Parmele, etc....guys who will likely be available at the time when Belichick could justify taking an RB. Same goes for every position...no Ryan or Brohm on my list either.

Don't see Otah from pitt on your lost. You're leaving some guys who are going to drafted completely off of your list. You might eliminate McFadden for character reasons. I understand that. But, what's wrong with the guys I mentioned?

I think Otah could be a colossal bust. Seems very non-athletic who beat up bad competition and was neutralized by good. He may have to move to guard eventually, or the HC might be resigned to giving him help every pass play, because he's going to get beat to the outside with frightening regularity.
 
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Hello again. This list could be added to or subtracted from depending on extraordinary workouts, Injury or Character red flags, or whatever, but if I'm Bill Belichick, and we're all glad that I'm not, here's how my draft value board stands today:

Tier 1 -- Value #1-#8
Jake Long OT Michigan
Chris Long LB Virginia
Glenn Dorsey DE Georgia Tech

Tier 2 -- Value #9-#20
Sedric Ellis DE USC
Vernon Gholston LB Ohio St
Ryan Clady OT Boise St
Quentin Groves LB Auburn
Leodis McKelvin CB Troy

Tier 3 -- Value #21-#35
Chad Henne QB Michigan
Felix Jones RB Arkansas
Andre Caldwell WR Florida
Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma
Devin Thomas WR Michigan St
Limas Sweed WR Texas
Early Doucett WR LSU
Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt
Brandon Albert G Virginia
Derrick Harvey LB Florida
Kentwan Balmer DE North Carolina
Aqib Talib CB Kansas

Tier 4 -- Value #36-#55
Joe Flacco QB Delaware
Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt
James Hardy WR Indiana
Anthony Collins OT Kansas
Gosder Cherilus OT Boston College
Cliff Avril LB Purdue
Erin Henderson LB Maryland
Jerod Mayo LB Tennessee
Johnathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
Red Bryant NT Texas A&M
Tracy Porter CB Indiana
Branden Flowers CB Virginia Tech
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee St
Antoine Cason CB Arizona
Reggie Smith DB Oklahoma

Tier 5 -- Value #56-#75
Matt Forte RB Tulane
Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech
Eric Young G Tennessee
Ezra Butler LB Nevada
Pat Sims DE Auburn
Marcus Harrison DE Arkansas
Trevor Laws DE Notre Dame
Patrick Lee CB Auburn
Quentin Demps S UTEP

Tier 6 -- Value #76-#100
Chris Johnson RB East Carolina
Oneil Cousins OL UTEP
Charles Godfrey CB Iowa
Chevis Jackson DB LSU
Simeon Castille DB Alabama
Tom Zbikowski S Notre Dame
Jamar Adams S Michigan
Josh Barrett S Arizona St

Tier 7 -- Value #101-#125
Josh Johnson QB San Diego
Kevin Smith RB Central Florida
Owen Schmitt FB/TE West Virginia
Jacob Hester RB LSU
Brad Cottam TE Tennessee
John Greco OT Toledo
Mike Pollack C Arizona St
Stanford Keglar LB Purdue
Jeremy Thompson LB Wake Forest
Ahtyba Rubin NT Iowa St
Frank Okam NT Texas

Tier 8 -- Value #126-#150
Erik Ainge QB Tennessee
Ray Rice RB Rutgers
Lavelle Hawkins WR California
Craig Stevens TE California
Kellen Davis TE Michigan St
Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech
Drew Radovich G USC
Jeremy Zuttah G Rutgers
Kory Lichtensteiger C Bowling Green
John Sullivan C Notre Dame
Chase Ortiz ILB TCU
Dwight Lowery CB San Jose St
Jonathan Zenon CB LSU
Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
Craig Steltz S LSU

Tier 9 -- Value #151-#200
Sam Kellar QB Nebraska
Thomas Brown RB Georgia
Justin Forsett RB California
Peyton Hillis FB Texas
Chauncey Washington RB USC
Jalen Parmele RB Toledo
Marcus Henry WR Kansas
Paul Hubbard WR Wisconsin
Jerome Simpson WR Coastal Carolina
Gary Barnidge TE Louisville
Drew Miller C Florida
Trevor Scott LB Buffalo
Gary Guyton LB Georgia Tech
Jameel McClain LB Syracuse
Hilee Taylor LB North Carolina
Jeremy Leman LB Illinois
Nick Hayden DE Wisconsin
Jack Ikeguonu CB Wisconsin
Bob Williams S Bethune-Cookman

Tier 10 -- Value #201-UDFA
Seth Adams QB Mississippi
Albert Young RB Iowa
Marcus Thomas RB UTEP
Keon Lattimore RB Maryland
Justin Beaver RB Wisconsin - Whitewater
Bo Ruud ILB Nebraska
Roderick Johnson ILB Oklahoma St
Jason Thornhill ILB Michigan St

Well good work, but I have to ask the question....You dont have Wesley Woodyard in there. I dont think he has done anything wrong to work himself off your board so I have to ask...Your tiers and rankings are difficult to understand, let me explain...
I have seen Mock drafts, I have seen athletes lists, and I understand this is a "patriots wish list". That said, you think if they could draft ANYONE at #1 they would draft OL Long?? Most everyone agrees his perfect position is RT, that he is NOT a franchise LT...how can you value his position #1 overall? It certainly isnt OUR #1 NEED. You are also indicating obvious players left off the list(DMC,etc)so in a way you base this list as a ranking of NEED as well. I think it would give you more credibility to rate everyone not just the players you think the pats might draft. I say that because as trades,FA signings and other shifts appear this list loses its importance really fast. And it also is helpful to those of us who would make a similar list,tiers,etc for discussion. To just leave guys off would need reasoning as well, even if its in a seperate list. I mean you have Jack I of UWisc. on here, hurt and off the field issues....but you have some guys just left off.....that doesnt make much sense to me. You are incorporating NEED as well as VALUE...
You put a lot of work into this,good job, and I would encourage others to do the same. But if we are going to have discussions on players,tiers,etc, include all info so you dont leave cool people(like ME)out. Or you can be like BB and tell me to go pound sand,lol.
 
I think you have Trevor Laws down to far. I really think he is going to sneak his way into the bottom of round 1. This guy is a football player, who will be terrific in a 4-3. If Notre Dame actually played well this year he would be up there with Sedrick Ellis.
 
Well good work, but I have to ask the question....You dont have Wesley Woodyard in there. I dont think he has done anything wrong to work himself off your board so I have to ask...Your tiers and rankings are difficult to understand, let me explain...
I have seen Mock drafts, I have seen athletes lists, and I understand this is a "patriots wish list". That said, you think if they could draft ANYONE at #1 they would draft OL Long?? Most everyone agrees his perfect position is RT, that he is NOT a franchise LT...how can you value his position #1 overall? It certainly isnt OUR #1 NEED. You are also indicating obvious players left off the list(DMC,etc)so in a way you base this list as a ranking of NEED as well. I think it would give you more credibility to rate everyone not just the players you think the pats might draft. I say that because as trades,FA signings and other shifts appear this list loses its importance really fast. And it also is helpful to those of us who would make a similar list,tiers,etc for discussion. To just leave guys off would need reasoning as well, even if its in a seperate list. I mean you have Jack I of UWisc. on here, hurt and off the field issues....but you have some guys just left off.....that doesnt make much sense to me. You are incorporating NEED as well as VALUE...
You put a lot of work into this,good job, and I would encourage others to do the same. But if we are going to have discussions on players,tiers,etc, include all info so you dont leave cool people(like ME)out. Or you can be like BB and tell me to go pound sand,lol.


Wading through this message to what I think is the question, I realize you're rooting for him, but what is special about Woodyard? I think you're talking about converting a 230 lb linebacker to safety, which is doable (I really wanted to draft Brian Iwuh two years ago for the same conversion), but I see nothing special in Woodyard that would suggest him, and not some other 230 lb linebacker. But this year there are some big, good safeties (Adams, Barrett) that I'd rather have instead.

Why don't I rate every player? I don't think it's possible, so to me the way to work it down to a manageable level is to start with the players who fit the Patriots system. Why bother rating 220 lb linebackers, 350 lb offensive tackles, or 275 lb defensive tackles?

There are about eight players on my list whom I have asterisked in my files that have character or other questions that I have to research in more detail. Some of these guys will move down or off the draft board as a result. Hardy, for example, spent time in jail on a domestic violence charge, although it was ultimately settled out of court. He might not be on the list next time....and if he is, it will be lower.
 
Wading through this message to what I think is the question, I realize you're rooting for him, but what is special about Woodyard? I think you're talking about converting a 230 lb linebacker to safety, which is doable (I really wanted to draft Brian Iwuh two years ago for the same conversion), but I see nothing special in Woodyard that would suggest him, and not some other 230 lb linebacker. But this year there are some big, good safeties (Adams, Barrett) that I'd rather have instead.

Why don't I rate every player? I don't think it's possible, so to me the way to work it down to a manageable level is to start with the players who fit the Patriots system. Why bother rating 220 lb linebackers, 350 lb offensive tackles, or 275 lb defensive tackles?

There are about eight players on my list whom I have asterisked in my files that have character or other questions that I have to research in more detail. Some of these guys will move down or off the draft board as a result. Hardy, for example, spent time in jail on a domestic violence charge, although it was ultimately settled out of court. He might not be on the list next time....and if he is, it will be lower.


Heatster -
If I might suggest, you might want to do some more research on Woodyard. He's damn near the same size and weight as Rodney Harrison. The difference is that he's got better speed and agility, has been a coverage linebacker and likes to hit people. One of the things that is intriguing about him is that one of the "knocks" against him is his change of direction ability. Yet, when you look at his shuttle (4.25) and 3 cone (7.15) numbers, he rates right up there with many of the safeties.

He may be a good fit as a guy to develop into a strong safety with a player like Rodney and a coach like Capers tutoring him. At the very worst, I'd see him replacing Larry Izzo on special teams in a year.
 
Again, good post. Sorry if I wasnt that direct with the question, I just kind of circled my critique. I guess what I was trying to say was...you have obviously spent alot of time on this. The players you ommitted that others have ranked as "draftable", we would like to know as well. You dont have to go into why you didnt rank them, but I would have liked a list at the bottom with the X amount of players that "didnt fit" as you see it. Even if they dont fit the PATS system(and you did state it)there are players that other teams will fit in there and push down the guys you are rating.....
That said, why on earth would you not rate a guy like Woodyard, but still have a guy like Jack Ikeg... on there with a blown out knee and a court case in front of him?? To me thats contradictory. You lose a little of that luster I hold for you, my favorite poster....I will have to tell you about meeting Hunter in Aspen and blowing up a car on his ranch! True story.
And as far as Woodyard showing nothing special....led the SEC in tackles, most talked about at the senior bowl, blew up the combine....If he is a square peg I smash him into our round hole! LOL
 
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From what I understand, the Patriots work from a board that usually has about 150 players on it. I think that is what dryheat44 is trying to speculate on.

As far as you guys arguing about what is on the Pat's draft board, I think everyone would be surprised at the board if they had a chance to see it.

Does anyone else remember a post draft interview within the last couple years, (it may have been with Jon Kraft) one of the questions was about player ranking.
The answer was something like--- "It is always interesting to see where the kids get selected, there were kids taken in the first round this year that we had graded as Priority Free Agents" !!!!
 
That said, why on earth would you not rate a guy like Woodyard, but still have a guy like Jack Ikeg... on there with a blown out knee and a court case in front of him?? To me thats contradictory. You lose a little of that luster I hold for you, my favorite poster....I will have to tell you about meeting Hunter in Aspen and blowing up a car on his ranch! True story.
And as far as Woodyard showing nothing special....led the SEC in tackles, most talked about at the senior bowl, blew up the combine....If he is a square peg I smash him into our round hole! LOL

Well, like I said, Woodyard is a linebacker. He doesn't fit the profile of a Patriots linebacker. It's really that simple. I didn't rate him for the same reason I didn't rate Xavier Adibi, Jordon Dizon, Ali Highsmith, Keith Rivers, Geno Hayes, Marcus Howard, Dan Conner, Tavares Gooden, etc. The Patriots like sturdier linebackers.

Now, it seems your suggestion is to draft Woodyard and convert him to safety. That's fine. But what makes Woodyard not only a better safety conversion project that the other guys just listed (Howard's probably the best comp), but also better than the big hitters that have actually spent the last few years playing safety, like Adams and Zbikowski?

I thought Ikegwuonu was the best cornerback in college last year. But if he didn't fit our corner profile, I wouldn't draft him as a wide receiver. We'll see what happens during his court case, but I'm rather forgiving of an 18 year old kid stealing an X Box (which I think is what happened), especially if I'm spending a late pick on him.

When I do my ratings, it's implicit that these guys pass the interview test. They could turn out being arrogant, stupid, or just a punk, in which case they'd be off the list, even if I wouldn't have knowledge of it.

I'll re-evaluate the situation. If Belichick were to draft him, I'd certainly have no problem with it.

Another note: Last year I only had one guy on my 75-player list that was drafted/signed -- Matt Guttierez. Previous years I did much better, but the point is that I'm not necessarily good at this.
 
Sometimes it's not the success of the attempt that's appreciated, but the attempt itself. It gives most of us a working board to start with.
 
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