The #1 draft need is likely to be DL

[patsfaninpa]

Yeah, yeah I get it. You and me don't see eye to eye. Seems like nothing new recently.

Unless of course you count "Mayo's binky" Ezekiel Ansah. you obviously weren't here before he became his binky - he was someone else's too. :rocker:

Just because I said Fisher's not a better prospect than Solder, doesn't mean he's not a good prospect. I thought Solder was a good prospect and was hoping we'd take him. I think Fisher might be as good. Just don't see how anyone can say better at this point. I just wouldn't want to take a similiar prospect at the same position two years later.

 

[manxman2601]

Just because I said Fisher's not a better prospect than Solder, doesn't mean he's not a good prospect. I thought Solder was a good prospect and was hoping we'd take him. I think Fisher might be as good. Just don't see how anyone can say better at this point. I just wouldn't want to take a similiar prospect at the same position two years later.

I didn't say Fisher was better.

but if there is a better LT prospect available like Fisher potentially,

I didn't have the access to video like I do now so I never got to see Solder at Nevada.

I rate both Vollmer and Solder highly. But we've got a lot of potentially expensive FA's to re-sign and the fact that Vollmer may get offered LT money to play elsewhere and the continuing problems with his back may make him the odd man out. OT is an important position for our offense and if BB/SCAR rate Fisher or another LT as better than Solder then the move might make sense.

I'm merely speculating and offering a hypothetical, hence the "mays" and "mights".

 

[patsfaninpa]

Solder played at Colorado. You just don't see many 6'8" 300+ pound guys who are as athletic as him. Wasn't as much his film. But, projecting what he could become with
better technique and conditioning of course. And, he still is far from a finished product. Will only get better. I think Vollmer's back issues give us a better chance of keeping him. Some teams supposedly had him off of their boards for medical reasons. If Vollmer were healthy, he'd command 8-10m and we'd have trouble matching that.

 

[mayoclinic]

Yeah, yeah I get it. You and me don't see eye to eye. Seems like nothing new recently.

Unless of course you count "Mayo's binky" Ezekiel Ansah. you obviously weren't here before he became his binky - he was someone else's too. :rocker:

I give you full credit for being ahead of me on the Ziggy Train. No question.

 

[manxman2601]

I give you full credit for being ahead of me on the Ziggy Train. No question.

I know and it's always appreciated. Wasn't a dig at you.

 

[mayoclinic]

Just because I said Fisher's not a better prospect than Solder, doesn't mean he's not a good prospect. I thought Solder was a good prospect and was hoping we'd take him. I think Fisher might be as good. Just don't see how anyone can say better at this point. I just wouldn't want to take a similiar prospect at the same position two years later.

IF the Pats don't keep Sebastian Vollmer, then a starting bookend tackle to pair with Nate Solder becomes probably the highest priority for the offseason. Unless anyone believes that Marcus Cannon is ready to step in as the full time starting RT (in which case we still have a major depth issue at OT if Vollmer leaves), given the cap issues and the cost of obtaining decent tackles in FA, the best likelihood is going through the draft. As far as I can tell, the available options are:

1. Eric Fisher or Taylor Lewan slip to us in the 1st round. Very unlikely, but possible. Either would be extremely good value in the late 1st - something of a steal, actually. Both are probably pure LT prospects, so the most likely option would be to move Nate Solder to RT, where he did well as a rookie.

2. Lane Johnson in the 1st. He's a fast riser right now, and could easily go higher than our pick if he does well against Texas A&M and declares. He has experience at both LT and RT.

3. Kyle Long day 2/3. He has great size and athleticism, but is raw. Could Scar see him as another Vollmer? Is he that good?

4. A dark horse like Reid Fragel day 3. He's flying under the radar, but is very athletic. We know that Scar doesn't go by other people's evaluations, and BB will have better info on the Ohio St. guys than anyone else. Fragel has only been starting for 1 year, but he could be a fast riser.

5. Someone else. Guys like Oday Aboushi of Virginia or Brennan Williams of North Carolina (coming off an injury) could be options.

Personally, I'm praying that Vollmer's back holds up and that we can re-sign him, but that may not work out. You've got to consider the options. And if Vollmer doesn't work out, investing in OT isn't a luxury, it's a necessity, IMHO.

Even if Vollmer re-signs, I personally hope we get someone like Fragel or a developmental guy like Marquardt day 3. We know that Vollmer's back issue isn't going away, and we need to pipeline some young athletic talent at the position.

 

[mayoclinic]

Charlie Campbell from Walter Football has an interesting mock out:

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Mock Draft - Charlie Campbell

He has the Pats taking WR Tavon Austin at 28, DT Jesse Williams at 58 and OG/C Khaled Holmes at 94. I like Austin a lot, but Jonathan Cooper (30) and Ziggy Ansah (32) are still on the board. Also, Brian Winters and Markus Wheaton don't go in the first 3 rounds of Campbell's mock (neither does Kyle Long).

My ideal:

- Take Ansah in the 1st. Cooper is very, very tempting, but I'd be very happy with Winters.
- I'd pinch myself if Jesse Williams slips to the 2nd. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.
- Take Brian Winters in the 3rd.
- Figure out how to get some an extra 4th round pick and take Markus Wheaton.
- Take Ohio St. OT Reid Fragel and Tulsa FS Dexter McCoil with our 2 7th round picks. Maybe figure out a way to pick up someone like Arkansas OLB Alonzo Highsmith (coming off a foot injury) as a coverage LB.

That would be my perfect draft. OL and DL both addressed (note 1 OL from each of Manx's 2 columns, as discussed above; DL with an interior force plus an edge rusher).

Pretty unlikely scenario, but not completely unrealistic.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I'd be pretty surprised if Indy doesn't take Jesse Williams. Maybe they take Jenkins. But, they need a NG.

I think the only way to get extra picks is to deal Mallett. Who knows what his value is? People forget some pretty good qb's sat for a while. Rivers for 2 years behind Brees and Rodgers for 3 behind Favre. Not comparing Mallett to either of those two. But, many old school NFL people think that's a good way to groom qb's. Heck, Carson Palmer even sat for a year behind Jon Kitna. Matt Schaub started 2 games in his first 3 years behind Vick in Atlanta before being dealt to Houston.

 

[TFB*]

Charlie Campbell from Walter Football has an interesting mock out:

He has the Pats taking WR Tavon Austin at 28, DT Jesse Williams at 58 and OG/C Khaled Holmes at 94. I like Austin a lot, but Jonathan Cooper (30) and Ziggy Ansah (32) are still on the board. Also, Brian Winters and Markus Wheaton don't go in the first 3 rounds of Campbell's mock (neither does Kyle Long).

My ideal:

- Take Ansah in the 1st. Cooper is very, very tempting, but I'd be very happy with Winters.
- I'd pinch myself if Jesse Williams slips to the 2nd. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.
- Take Brian Winters in the 3rd.
- Figure out how to get some an extra 4th round pick and take Markus Wheaton.
- Take Ohio St. OT Reid Fragel and Tulsa FS Dexter McCoil with our 2 7th round picks. Maybe figure out a way to pick up someone like Arkansas OLB Alonzo Highsmith (coming off a foot injury) as a coverage LB.

That would be my perfect draft. OL and DL both addressed (note 1 OL from each of Manx's 2 columns, as discussed above; DL with an interior force plus an edge rusher).

Pretty unlikely scenario, but not completely unrealistic.

Ive loved reading your thoughts and this website is great with all the informative posts and not just jargon and BS like most forums.

How likely is it that Winters will last to the 3rd and that Wheaton will make it to the 4th? Both of these players really intrigue me but I feel like both of their stocks will rise a bit and theyll be gone by these slots.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ive loved reading your thoughts and this website is great with all the informative posts and not just jargon and BS like most forums.

How likely is it that Winters will last to the 3rd and that Wheaton will make it to the 4th? Both of these players really intrigue me but I feel like both of their stocks will rise a bit and theyll be gone by these slots.

Wheaton till the 4th is very unlikely. I'd guess late 2nd/early 3rd. Probably a top 75 pick. Winters is harder to predict right now. He's a top 100 pick who could rise, but I think that 3rd round is reasonable for right now. He'll probably end up going higher before all is said and done, but he's not there yet.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Wheaton till the 4th is very unlikely. I'd guess late 2nd/early 3rd. Probably a top 75 pick. Winters is harder to predict right now. He's a top 100 pick who could rise, but I think that 3rd round is reasonable for right now. He'll probably end up going higher before all is said and done, but he's not there yet.

Wheaton is up to 56 at CBS. Its hard to see him going later than the second round right now. Everyone seems to like him.

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[manxman2601]

Wheaton is up to 56 at CBS. Its hard to see him going later than the second round right now. Everyone seems to like him.

NFL Draft - 2013 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Boo!

Apparently Robert Woods is expected to announce Monday whether or not he is declaring. Stedman Bailey is drawing Kendall Wright comparisons and Quinton Patton is getting some first round talk. A receiver will fall to that bottom 2nd round pick so if that's the way we're looking, we should be alright.

This may not be a great class for those looking for a #1 guy, but is an outstanding class for more workhorse type WR's.

 

[captain stone]

Hard to tell until all the declarations are announced, but how does this draft compare
so far to last year's draft re WRs?

 

[mayoclinic]

Hard to tell until all the declarations are announced, but how does this draft compare
so far to last year's draft re WRs?

Probably much deeper, though there's no one a lock to be drafted in the top 15 picks right now (Keenan Allen is closet). But I think there are probably going to be 10-12 really solid WR prospects, probably going through at least day 2:

- Keenan Allen
- Tavon Austin
- Robert Wood (undecided)
- Terrance Williams
- Cordarelle Patterson
- DeAndre Hopkins (undecided)
- Justin Hunter
- Da'Rick Rogers
- Markus Wheaton
- Stedman Bailey
- Quinton Patton

That leaves guys like Aaron Dobson, Aaron Mellette, Cobi Hamilton and Ryan Swope as likely day 3 prospects, all of whom have quite a bit of upside, not to mention guys with question marks but talent like Kenny Stills and Marquess Wilson.

Personally I like this group better than the 2012 group for the most part, though I'm hardly a WR guy.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Hard to tell until all the declarations are announced, but how does this draft compare
so far to last year's draft re WRs?

Probably much deeper, though there's no one a lock to be drafted in the top 15 picks right now (Keenan Allen is closet). But I think there are probably going to be 10-12 really solid WR prospects, probably going through at least day 2:

- Keenan Allen
- Tavon Austin
- Robert Wood (undecided)
- Terrance Williams
- Cordarelle Patterson
- DeAndre Hopkins (undecided)
- Justin Hunter
- Da'Rick Rogers
- Markus Wheaton
- Stedman Bailey
- Quinton Patton

That leaves guys like Aaron Dobson, Aaron Mellette, Cobi Hamilton and Ryan Swope as likely day 3 prospects, all of whom have quite a bit of upside, not to mention guys with question marks but talent like Kenny Stills and Marquess Wilson.

Personally I like this group better than the 2012 group for the most part, though I'm hardly a WR guy.

I would agree with Mayo. 2012 had 15 WRs go in the top 100 picks, and CBS projects 15 in the top 100 again this year. I like this years players better though. Brandon Coleman could still declare too.

 

[captain stone]

Now I'm not implying that a WR be drafted with our 1st-rounder, but Bill somehow needs to find
2 WRs - draftees or UDFAs - who wil be able to contribute by season's end. And that's ass-uming
all of Welker, Edelman & Lloyd are on the opening-day 2013 roster.

One decent WR (and a QB-to-WR convert at that) in the last 10 drafts is inexcusable.

 

[mayoclinic]

Now I'm not implying that a WR be drafted with our 1st-rounder, but Bill somehow needs to find
2 WRs - draftees or UDFAs - who wil be able to contribute by season's end. And that's ass-uming
all of Welker, Edelman & Lloyd are on the opening-day 2013 roster.

One decent WR (and a QB-to-WR convert at that) in the last 10 drafts is inexcusable.

:bricks:

Another "inexcusable". Please.

If the Pats re-sign Welker and Edelman than any addition WR will likely be at most the #6 receiving option after those 3 and the TEs, not even counting the possibility that the RBs may actually get more involved in the passing game. So I'm not sure we need 2 more WRs, though depth is always nice. We do need a pipeline, and at least 1 more developmental guy who will preferably stick. It's not clear to me that Tate and Price were so much a failure of drafting as a failure of patience and development by the team.

 

[mayoclinic]

I've been thinking about 2 very good current NFL players who were DEs coming out of college but who have bulked up and play very different roles from what they play in college: Justin Smith and Henry Melton.

Smith was a 267# pass rushing 4-3 DE coming out of Missouri. He did OK in that role for Cincinnati, but was never really dominant until he bulked up and became a hybrid tackle/end for San Francisco, where he is one of the best linemen in the NFL. While JJ Watt has put up bigger numbers, Smith may have as big an impact on San Francisco's defense, as his absence the past game and a half have shown.

Melton was a running back for Texas who was converted to DE, and was also aruond 267# when he came out. He's now around 295# and is one of the better penetrating DTs in the NFL, and a 2 time Pro Bowl player.

I wonder who could have that kind of projection who is currently draft eligible. Ziggy Ansah's an athletic freak all to himself. But the 2 guys who come to mind are Sam Montgomery of LSU and Trent Murphy of Stanford. Montgomery's around 6'5" 260# this year having bulked up. He doesn't have an elite first step but he's got good hand technique and is very physical, with a good motor. Murphy's around 6'6" and 260-265# and currently plays OLB, but is a physical brute with the frame to add another 20+ lbs. Both of those guys look line linemen to me, probably playing mostly on the strong side, and guys who could get bigger and stronger in the pros.

 

[stelfans]

I've been thinking about 2 very good current NFL players who were DEs coming out of college but who have bulked up and play very different roles from what they play in college: Justin Smith and Henry Melton.

Smith was a 267# pass rushing 4-3 DE coming out of Missouri. He did OK in that role for Cincinnati, but was never really dominant until he bulked up and became a hybrid tackle/end for San Francisco, where he is one of the best linemen in the NFL. While JJ Watt has put up bigger numbers, Smith may have as big an impact on San Francisco's defense, as his absence the past game and a half have shown.

Melton was a running back for Texas who was converted to DE, and was also aruond 267# when he came out. He's now around 295# and is one of the better penetrating DTs in the NFL, and a 2 time Pro Bowl player.

I wonder who could have that kind of projection who is currently draft eligible. Ziggy Ansah's an athletic freak all to himself. But the 2 guys who come to mind are Sam Montgomery of LSU and Trent Murphy of Stanford. Montgomery's around 6'5" 260# this year having bulked up. He doesn't have an elite first step but he's got good hand technique and is very physical, with a good motor. Murphy's around 6'6" and 260-265# and currently plays OLB, but is a physical brute with the frame to add another 20+ lbs. Both of those guys look line linemen to me, probably playing mostly on the strong side, and guys who could get bigger and stronger in the pros.

John Simon from ohio state? Hes not big so he cant bulk much more but i think he already plays inside sometimes.
really like that kid.

Murphy is good as are his LB's mates at stanford, those 3 will be good players in the NFL.

 

[mayoclinic]

John Simon from ohio state? Hes not big so he cant bulk much more but i think he already plays inside sometimes.
really like that kid.

Murphy is good as are his LB's mates at stanford, those 3 will be good players in the NFL.

The question with Murphy is whether he declares this year. If he does, he's very high on my list along with Ansah.

Simon has a great motor and he's very strong, but he's 6'2" 262#. Not sure he has the frame to bulk up any, as you note. That's my biggest question with him.