That Phantom Rusher: Brady

[condon84]

That video pretty much goes against you guys.

It shows Solder backing into Brady.

The pocket has a lot of moving parts and Brady is normally one of the better QBs who can feel it and move around to avoid it. That's what we expect from him. That's why him turtling like that is odd.

So are you saying every time someone is near Brady he should duck and turtle?

 

[condon84]

Sure. Dumervil has a bunch of forced fumbles over the years. Brady can't tell if Dumervil is locked up with Solder (he was) or if he has an arm free. All he knows is that he could feel pressure behind him. It wasn't like nobody was there.

Someone is always going to be around Brady or any other QB when they are in the pocket. This is the NFL. LOL. But Brady doesn't usually turtle like this.

As for the ducking motion, QBs (other than Sanchez) actually practice that. Coaches will swing pads to simulate a strip move. Protect the ball, step up if you can and reset. That is exactly what he did.

No one is disputing what he did. LOL. But why did he when it wasn't necessary?

If the implication is that Brady is scared or trying to avoid injury, he wasn't doing a very good job of it. Scared QBs don't extend the play with their eyes downfield. He had a chance to throw it at the feet of a receiver (which he does occasionally) but he still thought there was a chance for a positive play...and he ended up taking a hit because of it.

His eyes were downfield, other than the time he ducked and covered up.

The things that people will focus on amazes me sometimes. There are legitimate areas of criticism for Brady. His efforts at ball security ain't one of 'em.

This is the only legit criticism that Brady should be getting. He's almost perfect in all other areas.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Did you guys just start watching Brady or something? The guy has been evading rushers in the same fashion for ages. Sometimes he appears to have eyes behind his head.

Nope, I'm just not delusional enough to think that this has been something he's done for a long time, everytime he does it it's justified, and that it helps him make plays.

 

[Metaphors]

Someone is always going to be around Brady or any other QB when they are in the pocket. This is the NFL. LOL. But Brady doesn't usually turtle like this.

Not around him...behind him. He doesn't know the situation behind him but his instincts told him the ball was in danger. His instincts were wrong in this case. If Dumervil had gotten around Solder with an arm free, ball security becomes job one. You also have the wrong animal...it was more of a duck than a turtle.

No one is disputing what he did. LOL. But why did he when it wasn't necessary?

Are you saying that Brady should have known without a doubt that Dumervil didn't have a free arm when he is being blocked behind Brady?

His eyes were downfield, other than the time he ducked and covered up.

Where were Brady's eyes during that time? I see him looking between the numbers and seeing 4 Bronco defenders. He steps up, resets and looks wide left to Gronk...who unfortunately fell down. If the rush didn't get to him at that point, he likely throws the ball away.

This is the only legit criticism that Brady should be getting. He's almost perfect in all other areas.

What is your criticism? That he crumbles at the first sign of pressure, real or imagined? I just don't understand what you think the issue is. If Dumervil had swiped at the ball at the exact moment Brady ducked, it would have been an amazing vet move. You have the luxury of judging Brady based on the results, not the information available to him at the time. The Pats were up 10 and deep in their own territory. The chance of a turnover there far outweighed converting that 3rd down.

 

[Metaphors]

Nope, I'm just not delusional enough

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are tremendously delusional.

to think

or not to think

that this has been something he's done for a long time

I think you can ask some players (Suggs in particular) that he doesn't do it all the time

everytime he does it it's justified

I think you set the bar too low. He only needs to know with 100% clarity if a defender a few feet behind him has an arm free or not. How about "every time he does it, an angel get its wings"?

and that it helps him make plays.

Kind of like how a bulletproof vest helps a cop make arrests. Kind of hard to make plays with the ball on the turf and a d-lineman pouncing on it.

 

[Shockt327]

So, I'm browsing and just came across a nice pre-game article about Den @ NE. This paragraph is pretty relevant to the convo:

Brady’s "it" is his incredible ability to gather his mechanics while making throws from a congested pocket. True, he doesn’t like to be hit. Most quarterbacks don’t. But instead of avoiding hits by ducking or running, Brady avoids them by stepping up in the pocket or sidestepping the rush. In performing these pocket motions, Brady does a better job at keeping his eyes downfield and reclaiming his readiness to throw than anyone in the game. He’s incredibly quick in his fundamentals. It’s subtle-but-significant traits like this that turn sixth-round picks into Hall of Famers.

I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment, too. Brady has been utterly phenomenal for the majority of his career in this regard. Just that, well, that skill has fallen off considerably this season. It's mental, not physical. I suspect it's lack of trust.

Ducking? Off-balance throwing? Yup. That's Brady under pressure right now....

 

[upstater1]

The pocket has a lot of moving parts and Brady is normally one of the better QBs who can feel it and move around to avoid it. That's what we expect from him. That's why him turtling like that is odd.

So are you saying every time someone is near Brady he should duck and turtle?

Yes, he does it alot, and when it's a defender, often the defender misses precisely because he doesn't expect a guy with his back to him to duck. This makes Brady MORE effective, not less.

 

[upstater1]

So, I'm browsing and just came across a nice pre-game article about Den @ NE. This paragraph is pretty relevant to the convo:

Brady’s "it" is his incredible ability to gather his mechanics while making throws from a congested pocket. True, he doesn’t like to be hit. Most quarterbacks don’t. But instead of avoiding hits by ducking or running, Brady avoids them by stepping up in the pocket or sidestepping the rush. In performing these pocket motions, Brady does a better job at keeping his eyes downfield and reclaiming his readiness to throw than anyone in the game. He’s incredibly quick in his fundamentals. It’s subtle-but-significant traits like this that turn sixth-round picks into Hall of Famers.

I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment, too. Brady has been utterly phenomenal for the majority of his career in this regard. Just that, well, that skill has fallen off considerably this season. It's mental, not physical. I suspect it's lack of trust.

Ducking? Off-balance throwing? Yup. That's Brady under pressure right now....

Some things to prove you wrong:

1. In games this year, Brady has been making amazing moves in the pocket. His TD to Woodhead last week was sight to behold for his command of the pocket. Yesterday's long hook-up with Branch was similar.

2. He has ducked in a similar fashion many times before in the past.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

who said that?

Nobody said those exact words. Some people on this board have been making comments concerning his arm strength, and now your comments about his pocket awareness.

Very concerned about this ... The phantom rusher that Brady kept on seeing today. Did anyone catch his number? Not saying Brady is psychologically damaged goods, but it does raise some eyebrows .. I believe the first time I saw it was that Jets playoff game in 2010.. Might be a concern in Seattle? Discuss ..

I guess I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were saying his pocket awareness isnt what it used to be. In other words, his skills are eroding.

 

[Deus Irae]

With Schaub's off performance tonight, Brady is now #3 in QB rating, despite the team's slow start. He's quarterbacking what's become, at least for the moment, the league's best offense, and he's doing it brilliantly without the players who started the season off as his #1 TE target and his WR2.

If the man wants to duck for a legitimately, or perceived, "phantom rusher" every once in a while, I say "Have fun, Tom, and keep up the great work!".

 

[Joker]

so...I guess this is the great Duck vs. Turtle debate?????

 

[robbomango]

This is a guy who fist pumps after being hit by 300+ pound linemen and stands tall in the pocket to make tough completions. his anticipation was off it happens, when it's on he has eyes in the back of his head, when it's off he's seeing ghosts. Funny thread lmao

 

[robbomango]

Next time you must feel the force young BradyWalker, emm hmm ..

http://gifsoup.com/

 

[RoughingthePasser]

But a part of that might be because he wasn't reacting as adeptly as usual. I must admit, I noticed a difference myself--on a couple of the sacks his movement just appeared odd.

payton had a nice 1st down run...like to see Tom do it too

 

[Shockt327]

Some things to prove you wrong:

1. In games this year, Brady has been making amazing moves in the pocket. His TD to Woodhead last week was sight to behold for his command of the pocket. Yesterday's long hook-up with Branch was similar.

2. He has ducked in a similar fashion many times before in the past.

You really know how to misuse the word "proof," huh?

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Every once in a while, Brady gets the worst of it. Rarely do you surprise him with a scheme, but when you do, you get reactions like him ducking ghost rushers. The one play it was obvious during the broncos game there was no one open downfield, so that wasn't a huge deal to me. The flashbacks everyone is having to the Jets game in January 2011 there were lots of people open.

 

[upstater1]

payton had a nice 1st down run...like to see Tom do it too

I like it when he has TD runs. Like last week.

 

[upstater1]

You really know how to misuse the word "proof," huh?

It's absolute proof, actually. They are examples of his command in the pocket THIS year, and there's footage in the past of him ducking away from phantom blockers. What more proof do you need?

 

[chasa]

I saw him do it twice, the first time was because he heard someone directly behind him, and then saw it was a blocker, the second time a bronco was almost on him anyways.

2 plays where he protected himself, and didnt allow the broncos to get an easy fumble by going after an unprotected ball.

Hes not exactly Kolbing it out there.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are tremendously delusional.



or not to think



I think you can ask some players (Suggs in particular) that he doesn't do it all the time



I think you set the bar too low. He only needs to know with 100% clarity if a defender a few feet behind him has an arm free or not. How about "every time he does it, an angel get its wings"?



Kind of like how a bulletproof vest helps a cop make arrests. Kind of hard to make plays with the ball on the turf and a d-lineman pouncing on it.

A single sentence... you broke down a single sentence into five bits that range from absolutely off-topic to an only kinda off-topic terrible analogy. On top of that I never said pretty much any of what you're implying I said.

Judging from your post your self-esteem must be sky high if you think being delusional is a good thing. I'm sure people laud you constantly with it and other such "compliments".

I don't think Brady ducks/turtles all the time, nor do I think it's a huge deal if he gets it wrong on occasion. I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on my posts; I was actually pretty specific that I thought this and the Arizona games are anomalies.

Since the logic is that ducking/turtling allows Brady to dodge hits and then make plays can you please show the hundreds or probably even thousands of arrests made by cops after getting shot and saved by a bullet proof vest? I'm surprised that so little has been made of all these amazing stories, but I guess that's what happens when it's common place...

My personal opinion is I would rather if Brady returned to the old shoulder slump, protect the ball pose than the current scissor one. It seemed to provide close to the same amount of protection, but was far quicker to recover from when the pressure doesn't arrive. I think the number of times that a would be tackler goes flying over the top of him are less than the number of plays that are missed because he has to regather himself and rescan the field. I was admittedly kneejerk with the whole "I'd rather he go to the ground" bit because that's the only negative play I can think of that would've been avoided by that, and it's clearly outweighed by the plays he's made by ducking hits. No one tracks this stuff, so this is all 100% opinion, and neither side will or should budge.