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thanks to Patters and Wistah for making it ok to talk about Christianity here

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Lifer, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    I thought, rather than post random cherry picked pro-Christian articles to combat random, chery-picked anti-Christian articles, id just post the New Living Translation Bible online.
    people should read for themselves.
    http://bibleresources.bible.com/bible_nlt.php

    my apologies for leaving out GJ515 or whatever his name is too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  2. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Hey man, post some passages and let's debate (try to relate it to politics to keep it interesting). I've only ever read the Torah, which would be the first five books of the old testament in Christian Bible terms, but I'm always looking to learn something new. Bring it on!
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    thanks to Patters for making it OK to ignore zealots' insistant merging of church and state..
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I had hoped that this would be better defined, but must admit when I came across the Christian Spanking Site could not resist.. I take responsibility for what I did, which was wrong. I do believe that this site should be free from religious views as there is a specific forum for that. If we all started talking about the Bruins (cannot imagine why) there would be more of an outcry.
     
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If this site were so busy with political discussion that more posts caused a problem, I'd agree, but honestly, what's the harm? Nobody has to read any threads they don't want to. If we can put up with Terry Glenn's a Cowgirl's stupid-post-marathons we can deal with someone's attempt to tie religion into politics. I don't think they belong together, but for some people they do and I don't mind hearing from them. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    What'd I do?
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Probably nothing, but you have a name that is easy to remember... no more or less than anyone else.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As I said before, if you want to eliminate religious discussion from this forum come up with a workable rule and we'll vote on it. I think religion and politics have too much overlap for a rule to work fairly.
     
  9. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    You know you love me... just admit it:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  10. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Agreed. Ever heard of a "holy war????"
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The workable rule (for the Political Forum) is this:

    Promoting a religious viewpoint over other viewpoints is out. This is not politics, it is evangelizing.

    Discussing political impact of confessional groups is in, as the political impact of, say, Catholics who vote pro-life/pro-choice is an important consideration for Guiliani (just for example). Let the buyer beware; if not statistically substantiated, this can lead just as easily to religious slanders, as history shows us. (For instance, it's significant that the American Catholic church tends to have different views, especially on abortion rights, from Church policy. So quantify that -- it might be a key to Giuliani's chances.) Naturally the latter is the sort of wishful thinking that would just make this a better forum, but I felt I had to throw that in.

    In the above example, "It says in the bible abortion is wrong" [sic], is a valid point from which to argue only in the Religion forum.

    Let's put it this way: make your argument only if you can substitute someone else's God, and feel comfortable with it without using this suggestion as a cynical ploy.

    "Belief in God is the most relevant political fact to [present-day group]." Valid. I can substitute Zeus, and another group, and it works, without offending my non-Zeus worshipping beliefs.

    "God made men to love women and not other men." Use the same sentence substituting Zeus. Not valid, if you are truly a monotheist, an atheist, or anything but an ancient Greek or someone worshipping using that pantheon.

    Similarly for the bible, the quran, or any other holy text. Yes, you can say the bible is the holy book for the Christians, or you can say the Quran is the holy book for Muslims. Flip flop the groups and books and you only come up with another objectively true statement.

    But if you say The Bible is the Universal Truth, or Campaigns should be based on the bible, can you substitute "Quran" for the bible, and feel right about it?

    In a word: Objective religious statements yes, subjective religious statements no.

    The fact that, despite the presence of a Religion forum, religious zealots refuse to use it and insist on posting the text of the bible to a political forum, should tell you something.

    Like everybody else, I'll abide by whatever you come up with, Patters, but I don't think it that hard to say, "This is a religious discussion and belongs on the Religion forum." Baseball season and football season overlap, but we dont have this problem on the main board.

    I await the decision, rather than crowing that you've made it, per the triumphalist approach we see on this thread.

    PFnV
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  12. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    if its a positive about Christianity then its a problem.
    if it cuts down Christianity then theres no harm.

    Gotcha :rolleyes:
     
  13. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    you might be shocked but i agree 100% with this.

    in case you didnt get it, the reason i posted the Bible online thread was out of sheer frustration at the anti-Christian threads that have been posted in the last 2 days on the political forum.

    I, for one, wish that Fogbuster would utilize his talents on the Religion board in order to add to that forum, so its not just me surrounded by sex spam threads (as the moderators refuse to do anything about that situation)

    I have attempted to keep my religious comments relevant to politics when posting here.

    But it was obvious that Patters, by singling out Falwell, as guy who we all know was a loon, and just weeks after his death, had an agenda,

    and the spanking thread? c'mon, if that was a Jews for bondage sect i dont think it would go over too well.

    I agree, lets stop this nonsense, quit the Christian-bating here, lets have some solid religious discussion on the religious forum.
     
  14. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's almost as if we had come to some sort of rational conclusion. Now I'm frightened.

    PFnV
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How would a religious conservative express his opposition to abortion or gay rights? Could we talk about religious rationale behind suicide bombing? If someone's political views are borne out of their religion, can they talk about that? How would someone express their opposition to the separation of Church and State? Can someone say that they believe life is sacred? And remember, the moderators will not parse every thread. Generally, we only get involved if things get very out of hand or if there are complaints. And that's worked pretty well up until now.
     
  16. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    The BRUINS!! Now *there's* a dead religion if there ever was one.



    //
     
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's eight words.:eek:

    How you can enforce your parameters of discussion is beyond me. The discussion of religion within the context of politics inevitably brings about a controversy of spirituality. I see no difference between political views and religious views.

    You can go down the line of history and see that religion and politics are one in the same. Witness the English Revolution where the great issue was whether or not the Pope was the political authority. The religion of the Sun vs. the Pagan rites in Egypt brought down entire kingdoms and caused massive political and economic upheavals. The subjective causes and driving forces of events and forces like these are at the very root of politics. Religion, like politics - whether you're a Democrat, Republican, Communist or Fascist as well as whether you're a Catholic, Methodist or Evanngelist - is almost entirely dependent on what culture you were born into once you cut it down to the root. There's hardly any black or white there.

    Pardon the simile, but forbidding the discussion over the validity of God is like forbidding the discussion over the validity of higher taxes for welfare vs. lower taxes with assistance from civic groups. One is just as valid as the other for the sake of discussion. As Patters has stated, he and FTW do not have the time or the inclination to muddle through every word and phrase of every thread. I doubt they even read every thread.

    As much as I'd like to eliminate the discussion of mythological figures in matters best resolved by science, mythology was always one of my favorite subjects for the sheer entertainment. Believe it or not, there are people who actually believe that Star Wars is an historical account of real events, and the politics in it are interesting as well. Who can forget how the Emperor rose to power amidst the threat of rebellion and terrorists? :rocker:
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Actually UCLA has a good team this year.:D
     

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