Texans breaking up the 3-4...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patsox23, May 4, 2006.

  1. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    POST from KFFL...

    Originally Posted by spadejack
    10 Texans cut

    And the conversion to a 4-3 scheme begins. Cuts include ...

    NT Jerry DeLoach 6'2 335
    DT Junior Ioane 6'4 332
    OLB Zeke Moreno 6'2 235
    OLB Quinn Dorsey 6'4 268
    ILB Frank Chamberlin 6'2 238

    Dorsey is a guy originally signed by the Pats as a UDFA in 2004 and then he was traded to the Bears in training camp. Could be worth another look. I think Chamberlin and Ioane are scrubs. Anyone know any more about any of these guys and whether any are worth a tryout?

    There's still plenty more where those came from. See Ourlads depth chart on the Texans. They still have 11 LBs left. Wong is the one I would like to see here.

  2. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    My take is that Kailee Wong could be had and that I'd be more than willing to trade a 4th or 5th for Antwan Peek, who may not be right for their system now. That's my possibly baseless hope, anyway.
  3. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    You bring up a very good point. Jason Babin comes to mind. While many expect SD to cut Donnie Edwards, there should be a flood of former 3-4 Texans on the market.

    In any case, BB/Pioli aren't finished with this roster yet. :cool:
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
  4. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    i expect us to look at DeLoach as a backup if Smith doesnt lock up #2..bring in a veteran to compete
  5. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I saw that as well..so see what happens in the next few days..there will be more available..
  6. Amnorix

    Amnorix On the Game Day Roster

    Superb. The fewer 3-4 teams out there, the better for us.

    Also note an ancillary benefit that won't pay off right away, but down the road -- the AFC South will have no 3-4 teams left, which means teams like the Jags, Titans and Colts won't be "practicing" against a 3-4 defense in Texas in preparation for playing us...
  7. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    This is very interesting. They've signed Anthony Weaver to play LE, ND Kalu to play RE and Sam Cowart to play MLB. They were planning to shift Babin and Peek to RE, but now that they've drafted Mario Williams and Demeco Ryans, there seems to be a jam.

    I agree with Patsox. I think Wong could be had. And I doubt Peek has enough bulk to play DE. Both would be upgrades over TBC, I think.
  8. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Now you're thinking...

    Wonderful, Wonderful!!!

    Now were finally addressing an issue that can effect the 2006 season. Endless discussions about a tired, old, CB whose best days are well behind him, are tiresome. I don't think its a good idea to pay very high wages to what, in reality, is a 33 year old rookie safety. That ship has sailed.

    The Patriots are assured of another double draft in 2007 with the compensatory picks they are sure to get for their FA losses. Now that most of FA is over, and the Draft is complete, the team can assess what its additions and subtractions are to see where unaddressed holes still exist.

    On inspection I say that ther biggest concern is LB; specifically thier #4 starter and the #5 the first reserve or a hiigh use specialist off the bench. I'm thinking of a guy such as a 2-down TJ-like runstuffer, for example.

    There is flexibility as to whether the candidate is an ILB or and OLB. The Flexibility occurs because both Vrabel and Tedy can play outside or inside. I think its easy to see that 4th LB and 5th LB (prime reserve) are the areas where there are more concerns then elsewhere. I would concentrate efforts there.

    Its time to go trade shopping for help.

    The Texans have several 3-4 LBs ,not all of whom fit their new 4-3. I'd select and discuss a trade for thieir better LBs rather than their scrubs. We have the choices to use, and the money to afford them. Think how much more secure the team would be with even one more 3-4 starter, to plan with on the roster.

    I wonder how Sam Cowart would look in a Pat's uniform?

    Kailee Wong IIRC, was a relatively high draft pick for a DE/tweener.
    I recall hoping we could get him as a rook to develop at OLB. Some one else has done that and suffered the errors and rookie mistakes.

    Jason Babin was a 1st round DE/tweener pick who didn't do much as rookie. In his defense he was from a very small school program and the transition to the NFL could have delayed his development. In any case he no longer fits what the Texans need. Is he a project that BB might want to continue?

    It used to be the entire O and D were put in in TC, but not anymore. With the mandated shortened Training camps, most teams end up installing their systems in the mini-camps, prior to TC. If you miss those, you really are missing the benefits of what people used to call "Training Camp".

    At certain positions like LB, even experienced vets take a long time to absorb the complicated BB system. So trading for LBs should probably occur relatively early in the offseason. Its time to swoop in and take advantage of that, before too much of the system is installed, and the newcomer misses it. An argument can be made that its better to pay a low draft pick to get him early, even if he might be available later in the preseason, as a waived FA.
  9. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

    How much sense does it make to move away from the one defensive formation that has historically shown to give your #1 division rivals a very, very hard time? How can these guys look at the Colts' consistent difficulty handling the 3-4 and decide to scrap it? Weird.

    But I'm happy, the less 3-4 teams out there the better for us.
  10. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers On the Game Day Roster

    I don't think you can look at it any other way than as them completely re-tooling their defense around Mario Williams.

    As to whether or not this is a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, only time will tell...
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    #50 Jersey

    Couldn't you look at it as their new head coach wanting to install his own defense?
  12. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    They were committed to the 43 before they even thought of drafting Williams. As soon as Kubiak became the coach, he said he was going with a 43. And I can't really blame him. The Texans defense has been totally pathetic.
  13. GoWhalers

    GoWhalers On the Game Day Roster

    Patchick, Bucky -

    Yes, all different ways of saying the same thing. The drafting of Mario Williams reflects their total committment to the 4-3 defense under their new head coach, because he would be a completely wrong fit in a 3-4.

    The follow-up question (mentioned in many posts prior) is that aside from Williams, how many of their current defensive personnel fit the requirements of the 4-3? Where do guys like Gary Walker and Jason Babin go now?
  14. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I was under the impression the Colts beat the Texans twice a year with regularity. Shouldn't they try something that works for a change?
  15. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

    Well yeah... they're the Texans. When your QB is sacked 15 times per game, your defense is almost irrelevant. ;) Look at the fits that Peymetons usually has against good 3-4 teams like the Stealers, Patriots and Chargers. He has shown consistent problems reading a 3-4 alignment pre-snap.
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
  16. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    Fact is, it's really hard to get the 3-4 to work. You need special players on the DL and versatility and size at LB. They dont teach the 3-4 technique much in the college game, so you need special coaching and smart players who can take it in.

    I'd love to pick up some of Houston's leftovers at OLB to backfill for McGinest, Chatham, Brown and Phifer, none of whom have been adequately replaced. Athletic and smart player in the 350-360# range is just the thing. Jason Babin would be worth trading for.
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Oh! I know this one, I know this one! -- really freakin' OLD and crappy?!
  18. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Babin is moving to RDE - his natural position. Walker will probably use the same 2-gap technique he's always used. A very large number of players would be able to play in either system. That's why their housecleaning is just as much a factor of the players sucking as it is of the system switch.

    That said, I think Peek is one guy who's too small to play DE in the 43 and not ready to play as a true LB. And Wong just might be an extra body. That's why I picked out those 2 as possibilities for the Pats. I don't think guys like Babin, Walker, and Greenwood are going anywhere.

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