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Terrible Jobs Report

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Aug 6, 2010.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the non farm payroll worse tan expected again.Also last month's number was revised down by 96k jobs. Unemployment rate remained unchanged, this with graduates entering the workforce, IOW more people stopped looking for jobs.

    July Non-Farm Payroll Report Makes You Wish You Worked On A Farm The Reformed Broker


  2. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Soon from the White House:

    1. It could have been worse
    2. Anyone that still has a job owes it to us
    3. It's Bush's fault anyway
    4. AZ is racist
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Wages are being dragged down by this recession, as expected. That has to factor into this payroll number as well as the persistent unemployment numbers, which don't really mean much because they can only guess at the real number of people who are unemployed and underemployed. I know people with masters degrees working in malls and landscaping. It's really dead out there. Carpenters are cutting each other's throats for work, getting half of what they were getting 10 years ago during the building boom. Those who went out and bought new trucks 4 years ago are busy paying debt. Those who saw this coming and didn't splurge are doing a little better. Everyone's hunting for scraps of work.
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good point Whista, a lot of people with 'jobs' have had their hours cut back and aren't getting raises. This factors into the picture too.
  5. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    it all depends on the trade and the region/city.

    We work with people nationwide, in most trades, and there are areas where we can't find anybody to do jobs for weeks. In other trades or locales, there's clearly a dearth of work.
  6. Real World

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    We saw it coming years ago. 2007 was actually our worst year in construction, of the last 5. That woke us up for what the last 3 years would be like. We adjusted accordingly, and have been ok in that department the last 2+ years. Not great, but working above the mendoza line. Property wise we're struggling. I've got an old school that no one wants, and can't develop, as well as about 40,000 sq/ft of empty commercial space that normally wouldn't last 3 months on the open market. It's been vacant for almost 2 years now, save for a bargain rate 5 month temp we had, that paid about 30 cents on the dollar. Things will eventually improve, but it's going to take a while, and the road back will be slow, uneven, and somewhat tough. I think the election in November will be an important first step. While some people might not like hearing it, if control is split, and the pubs take control of either the house, or the senate, then we could see businesses feel a little more comfortable moving forward, as they may feel this administration will be somewhat neutered. I think there is some valifity to the issue of direction, and intent from the WH. Of course, split control was supposed to be a good thing in 2006, and look where that got us. Regardless, I think the belt tightening could only get more severe as we get closer to the November election.
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    This proves that tax cuts dont trickle down.

    never have, never will. All the conservative talk about rich people giving poor people jobs is absolute crap. The wealthiest americans have almost doubled their wealth while we are losing jobs at a tremendous rate. Thanks Tax-cuts during two wars. Thanks deregulation.

    Worst part about all of this is we still see people running for congress, and voting on bills that work with this mantra. sad....so sad.

    We need to start MAKING stuff, and stop OUTSOURCING labor.

    Krugman was right, the stim needed to be twice as big.
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Which means that consumers need to stop focusing solely on price and mistaking price for value. Good luck with that.


    Did it need to be twice as big, or put to work more quickly, or differently?
  9. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Huh? What tax cuts are you talking about? The one's during 2003 that increased revenues for the fed, or the one's included in the stim bill that more or less gave people who don't pay taxes, more money?

    I would love to see more manufactured in this country, but there has to be a realistic plan to help make that happen. Maybe that involves revisiting the free trade agreements we've signed, and/or reducing the burden on both taxpayers, and businesses, so that labor is more affordable. Whatever it is, to attract, or keep manufacturing at home, it has to make fiscal sense for companies to do so.

    Has Paul Krugman ever had a real job? He's clueless. He thinks deficits don't matter (when Obama is president of course) and is a Keynesian who believes that every dollar the government spends, reeps countless more dollars in return. He's your classic book reader.
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    I'm talking about the 800 billion in Tax cuts that are about to expite for teh richest 1% of americans that was supposed to create jobs... we are at 10% unemployment now (20% underemployment). I'm no economist, but how does a tax cut increase revenues for the fed? Donations? I read a lot by conservatives about how cutting taxes creates jobs, but I'm looking at the evidence, and its has created wealth for a few, and unemployment for a lot. The evidence is right in front of us.

    I agree that free trade is about as dumb as it gets, our trade policy is unbalanced (to say the least) we favor multi-nationals and foreign manufaturing ahead of our own workforce and small buisnesses.

    Paul Krugman : Professor of Economics and International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, Centenary Professor at the London School of Economics, and an op-ed columnist for The New York Times. In 2008, Krugman won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics for his contributions to New Trade Theory and New Economic Geography. He was voted sixth in a 2005 global poll of the world's top 100 intellectuals by Prospect.


    translation: way smarter than us.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many economists argued the stimulus was not enough. We may need another stimulus to get our economy back on its feet. Since the Reagan era, we have seen an increase in part-time jobs, the need for both husband and wife to work, and an increase in the disparity of wealth. We can't expect Obama to right the disastrous policies of Reaganomics in a year and a half. Even Reagan's huge deficit spending took 3 years to correct the lesser recession that Carter left us.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  12. reflexblue

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  13. Real World

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    Krugman is a tool. Just cuz someone has read a lot of books, it doesn't mean they have a clue as to what the real world is like. Some of the smartest, and most successful people I know, can barely read or write.

    Your rant about taxes is ignorant to say the least. If the tax cuts were allowed to expire, the fed would see a $40-50 billion increase in actual revenue next year. However, you'd have to apply the lost revenue that the circulated would return as well. Tax cuts, like government spending, isn't an absolute in either direction. By that, I mean lowering taxes to zero won't result in more revenue for the fed, just like the government spending a zillion billion dollars, won't do the same. There has to be the proper mix, as well as corresponding policy to exact a desired result. Here, with the Bush cuts, federal reciepts increased to record levels. The problem was the lack of corresponding policy (reduced gubmit spending). At any rate, raising taxes now, would probably be a poor decision. Maybe moving forward a rearrangement of tax rates and codes would be worthy of discussion, but right now, the gubmit shouldn't be taking money out of people's pockets.

    To blame the current economic situation on the 2003 tax cuts is comical. This current situation goes so far beyond any singular reason. This is decades, and generations worth of unsustainable policies, that have come to a head. Unfortunately, we're still not learning from it.
  14. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    No more stimulus. We're broke. Maybe if the stimulus had been designed accordingly, it would have had a better result, but unforutnately, it was horrendously put together. Infrastructure bill my arse.

    It's time to cut spending people.
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    hahahahhah!

    after a 3 trillion dollar double fake war... after 800 billion in Tax cuts...after the pentagon lost almost 5 trillion...

    NOW its time to cut spending.....
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    talk about spinning my words....

    You asked "What Tax Cut?" I wasnt blaming the unemployment on the tax Cuts ALONE. saying it is a major part of why we are so fukced now.

    asking to keep these tax cuts is like saying wall street can keep messing with derrivatives and limitless credit, we should give MORE home loans to people who cant afford it, start a few more wars, and outsource more of our workforce.....

    I'm specifically calling out the Tax cuts, because its the #1 thing that conservatives say we need to do, and its pretty much been proven to do nothing but sink us further into an economic freefall.

    Cut spending! thats like telling me if I drink water, it will make my throat wet. NO $#!T?

    with the same philosophy, a person in debt to a crediter should simply spend less, not try and make more $$......everything should be okay if they just stop making payments on the car, or to the water and electric companies...

    that aint how it works.




    its DUMB.
  17. Real World

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    Dumb is someone saying that tax cuts "pretty much been proven to do nothing but sink us further into an economic freefall" , when the vast majority of times, they've resulted in increased economic activity, and more money for the fed. The problem is spending. There's simply too much of it. Whether its a bailout, a welfare program, a war, or whatever, there's simply too much.
  18. patsfan13

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    Tell that to people who have no work and the people who have had their hours cut.


    Given the obscene amount of money wasted by the administration it is horrible BTW.
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    That is actually a load of crap. economic growth periods generally follow periods of higher taxation rates. Nobel Prize wiining Ivy league professors agree with that point of view.

    Down The Memory Hole - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

    "You can see why: the facts are embarrassing. Here’s a rough-cut version. The blue line, left scale, shows median family income in 2008 dollars; the red line, right scale, shows the top marginal tax rate, a rough indicator of the overall stance of policy. Basically, US postwar economic history falls into two parts: an era of high taxes on the rich and extensive regulation, during which living standards experienced extraordinary growth; and an era of low taxes on the rich and deregulation, during which living standards for most Americans rose fitfully at best."

    Thom Hartmann does a good job of explaining tax rates from the point of view of thsoie who have, and those who have not. The Great Tax Con Job | CommonDreams.org



    Of course ONE of the problems is spending. By next year the largest portion of our deficit is represented by those tax cuts. Lets start with stopping that spending. AND the wars. There is no return on those investments except for death and unemployment.

    http://static.businessinsider.com/i...-the-day-bush-policies-deficits-june-2010.gif
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    OT: just wondering, did you say the same during the Bush years?
  21. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By this administration :rofl::rofl::rofl: You are out of touch with reality, or in denial.

    When i first came on here during the Bush years you owned your own home in suburbia and lost it now you live in an apartment. If things hadn't changed you'd have to get a lap top with with WIFI to log on to here from the cardboard box you'd be living in.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    One of Obama's pledges was to create jobs through tax cuts and similar for countries producing goods in this country. It was one of his best pledges IMO. He's done nothing about it since being elected ... is he afraid of pissing off China? Our debt is the problem ... as long as we are carrying this huge debt our economy will suck.
  23. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes I did, I thought the spending and new entitlement programs were ridiculous, saying that the dems make the pubbies look like amateurs when it comes to wasteful spending. I wish S Forbes who I voted for in the primary beat Bush in 2000.
  24. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And you are still a government drone doing no real work.
  25. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BZZZZZ BZZZZZ I still have MY house BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    Thats the sound of me DRONNING ALONG :singing::singing: I bet you'd like to be like me, a gubmit worker. Envy will get you no where.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  26. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    It seems kinda stupid to get worked up over a bunch of census workers finishing what they were hired to do and going home.

    Thank you and see you in 10 years guys! Well, unless the republicans wake up to the fact that statistical sampling is a massively more accurate way to figure out who lives here.
  27. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dunno if anybody's actually brought this up, because I'm not wading through 3 pages of glee that the economy might not be doing well, accompanied by an assortment of witticisms that might seem mature and appropriate in some of the lower elementary grades, wherein their authors evidently left off contact with the educational system.

    However: This jobs report shows private sector growth of north of 700,000 jobs.

    It's the public sector - government - where the jobs disappeared. This is mainly due to the disappearance of census workers from the payroll. I am sure the mess the states are in also contributed. You remember the states - one of the targets of stimulus aid that got chopped from the last bill.

    So let me get this straight: it is terrible when the economy improves because we have tons of extra jobs to work the census. It is terrible when the private sector picks up, but the census jobs go away. It is terrible when state jobs go away, but not so terrible that we'd want to oh, I dunno, prevent it from happening?

    Righties here have to understand that the American people are on to you. You "Hope we fail" to turn around this economy, because the guy who has to answer to the job isn't a rightie. The country itself doesn't matter. Got it.

    But I think it's reasonable to actually discuss economic outcomes and the factors that lead to them, for the rest of us.

    I'm thinking the right's traditional echo-chamber modus operandi is going to screw it in November, personally. You guys seemed at one point to have a good shot of taking back both houses of congress. Now you're looking more and more like you'll grab 5 senate seats and 25 House seats, then spend the next two years crowing about your landslide victory.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  28. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was 70,000 private sector jobs not 700,000 jobs. Didn't bother with the rest of the post since you don't know what is going on.

    OTOH only being off by a factor of 10 is better than usual.
  29. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow i thought this was at least high school level work.

    "When i first came on here during the Bush years you owned your own home in suburbia and lost it now you live in an apartment. If things hadn't changed you'd have to get a lap top with with WIFI to log on to here from the cardboard box you'd be living in."
  30. PatsFanInVa

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    'K, 13, read 700,000 (above) as 70,000. "Edit" does not seem to be working tonight, so we'll all have to live w/a typo.

    Now you can go back and read the rest of the post, and respond if you are able to, though I find that unlikely.

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