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Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Nov 20, 2008.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Well, Mr. Byrne is not impressed with the management of our secondary. It's not stellar, I agree, but he goes back in history to pinpoint mistakes.

    Hard to disagree with some of it, but these writers always get to look smarter with hindsight as a weapon.

    WEEI 850AM Sports Radio - Bad Moves By Patriots Have Led To A Bad Secondary

    Excerpt:

  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    This guy is clueless. Yes we haven't hit on anyone quite like Asante hit but 3 of the guys after Asante are starting on this defense right now and only one of them can attributed to injuries. Another one was looking like a good late round find until his legal troubles happened.

    I think there are plenty of teams out there that would kill for success like this out of their day two picks.
  3. KontradictioN

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    This guy needs to take a step back and look at our last draft. So far, every draft pick looks to be working out and Wheatley was looking like a star in the making until his wrist blew up. Wilhite doesn't look all that bad either when he gets playing time.
  4. Mack Herron

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    Alllowing 40% first down % is second to last in the league and passing rating of 93 is 8th worst. The pass defense has been particulalry vulnerable to long passes and third down completions. Just the facts.
  5. Richter

    Richter Rookie

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    He's missing the real problem, and that's the lack of a dominating pass rusher. We address that need in the upcoming draft, where there will be a large selection of top DE/OLB rushers coming out, and suddenly, the secondary will look a lot better. Asante was and is a fine talent, but he hasn't set the world on fire in Philadelphia, because the style they play isn't as good a fit for his talents. He wouldn't have fared much better with the Patriots this year, because of our lack of a rush. Hopefully, the Patriots can pick up a guy like Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown or George Selvie in the draft and bolster the pass rush, then bring in Asomugha, provided the Raiders don't franchise him, to cut off part of the field. With a renewed pass rush and the ability to move the safeties around without fear of getting burned deep constantly, the defense could return to the dominance of 2003/4.
  6. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    Wilhite needs to develop a better sense for looking back at the ball, but he's a fourth rounder. You expect that he's going to need time to adjust, and I don't think anyone expected him to have to play this much with Hobbs, Bryant (originally anyway), O'Neal, Sanders, Webster, and Wheatley.
  7. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    I think we underestimate how much 3 days of practice can help a player. Wilhite is back in practice, maybe he'll have a good game Sunday.

    Sadly, the Vince-inator seems to be missing today, per Reiss:
    Practice report - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    The coverage struggled the year Law left, and then rebounded after Hobbs grew into the role. This year, the team is trying to replace Samuel and the top draft pick is injured.

    In other words, his argument is flawed at best, and completely wrong at worst.
  9. BlitzFritz

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    i was thinking the same thing. weak pass rush
  10. BradyManny

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    I'm trying to tell myself there's no way the Raiders would let Asomugha go...I don't want to get my hopes up. I think he would single handedly take this defense to a whole new level. He would have far, far, far greater an impact than Asante ever could. Unfortunately, I think we'll likely be waiting until 2010 for a chance to sign him. But...stranger things have happened.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  11. AzPatsFan

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    The gentleman is missing the obvious. The Defense is being rebuilt before our very eyes, and its not yet finished.

    Consider that there are 10 defensive players getting extensive snaps who were either, not with the team, or are first year starters after rookie campaigns, or are rookies outright. They are:

    Willhite, Wheatley, Mayo, Guyton, as pure rookies. Meriwether, Richardson and Woods as youngsters who are starting for the first time this year.
    O'Neal, Webster, L. Sanders who are first year vet newcomers and relatively unfamiliar with the team.

    Except for the D-line, the Defense resembles an expansion club.

    But in spite of all that, the Defense is still rated among the top dozen in the League. Did I mention that the club is playing .600 ball and fighting for a playoff berth too? Not bad for the equivalent of an expansion club defense.

    It will be pretty good Defense, with a year playing together, I would suggest. Especially when you add a few missing pieces, like a upgraded SS, and another starting caliber ILB. A reserve NT would be helpful too. As for a pass rushing OLB, BB seldom invests a first round pick on someone that needs a position change. He just assumes its a multi-year transition from DE to 3-4 OLB, and instead acquires an athletic guy in the 2nd-5th round and begins the training and transition. Or he might import an established pass rusher in FA.

    Did you notice that he has already acquired several developmental candidates for that transition? Pierre is playing now, has 31 tackles this season in spot duty, and just got his first sack, after taking over for injured AD. In his first real start, he also registered 10 tackles along with the sack, too. Not too shabby. :eek::eek:
  12. vyrago

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    Especially with Uncle Al and the Raiders.
  13. Jimke

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    I have to be the contrary one. The trouble with losing Asante
    and Randall Gay was the Patriots had no one on the roster to
    replace them. The Pat's solution was to sign three castoffs for
    the league minimum and expend a late round #2 and late round
    #4 for cornerbacks. A rookie cornerback drafted this late is not
    likely to start for the Patriots. O'Neal was a last resort.

    While it is true that a good pass rush would help, the Pats are not
    not able to apply constant pressure. In addition to cornerbacks,
    the Patriots did not draft many linebackers until this year. They
    relied on free agents with mixed results. This year the Pats may
    have stuck it rich. Mayo and maybe Guyton are their middle
    linebackers of the future. They also have Crable, Redd, Robertson,
    and Woods to contend for the outside linebacker positions. Maybe
    one of these players will develop into a good pass rusher.
  14. Richter

    Richter Rookie

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    Unfortunately, it looks likely they franchise him again. If they didn't, however, I would throw a lot of money his way. He's the only true shutdown corner in the league right now. Get Wilfork and Seymour re-signed, pick up Asomugha with an eye towards the uncapped year(s) that are likely forthcoming, and draft Brown or Selvie, and the defense will be dominant again. Best in the NFL, bar none. If they can get another high pick by franchising and moving Cassel, even better. I really believe with the emergence of Mayo, the only thing this defense needs now is an improved pass rush and one elite cover corner, and they can dominate, provided the pieces already in place all return.
  15. BelizePats

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    I don't have much of a problem with what the guy writes. But, he does completely neglect the awful pass rush that the Pats have put forth this year. For the most part its been terrible and when a QB has all the time in the world in the pocket, someones going to get open!
    A glaring journalistic omission.
  16. BradyManny

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    Re: Tell us how you REALLY feel, Kerry: WEEI article on the secondary.

    I agree. And I'm slowly starting to think the corner actually has to come first. If we had Asomugha, it would completely free up Pees, BB & Capers to blitz more liberally, zone blitz.

    I think while they may lack an elite pass rusher, AD is a very good pass rusher & Big Sey has been very good this year. Vrabel & Green are normally good at getting to the QB, but their production is down this season, for various reasons.
  17. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    While I agree with him that the secondary is sub par, the real problem lies within the pass rush. In fact, picking on the secondary is too obvious because everyone knows that their not very good. As I stated last offseason, the Pats needed to address the lack of pass rush, especially with the loss of Asante Samuel. In the end, their aren't too many pass rushing LB's that are hitting FA so the Pats will have to count on draft picks and Shawn Crable to fill that role. However, this FA class should allow the Pats to grab a young CB or two such as Chris Gamble because the Panthers will franchise Peppers, Dunta Robinson who is an injury risk and Jabari Greer to name a few. Two SS's I like are Jermaine Phillips who shouldn't command too much money because he's coming off of an injury and Sean Jones.

    When reading the article about the Pats success in the 2003 offseason, the author fails to acknowledge that Tyrone Poole was a low key FA signing and had the best year of his career. Poole had 6 INT's (tied for 3rd in the NFL), 21 pass break ups (tied for 3rd in the NFL) and forced 3 fumbles (tied for 4th in the NFL). Poole was a big part of why their secondary was so great in 2003.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2008
  18. BionicPatriot

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    I think this D needs additions in both the secondary and OLB

    However, obviously what that dip**** doesn't realize from reading his own freaking list is the Pats just don't value CBs greatly, they don't see a need to have great ones back there. Honestly, it's smart. Why invest that much in a CB when you can find a solid CB but throw a pass rush infront of him helping the WHOLE defense? That dude makes it sound like he's whiffed, not really because he hasn't even bothered going too high on corners outside of Whealtey (which was because we JUST lost CB's Gay/Samuel) and Merriweather in 07 (Who did we have at FS?) So obviously, BB doesn't value corner a lot. That's honestly fine, when you have a pass rush infront of it. Outside of Ross, how many great ones are in the Giants secondary? You probably can't name them, nor does it matter. They don't make plays, but they don't give them up. This is what a great defensive line does, it covers up things.

    I mean, in 04, we fielded a pitiful secondary. Outside of the safety position, the depth chart was horrible. That tells us 2 things:
    1. Obviously, that was one of our better pass rush years. This secondary was covered up by it, surprise surprise.
    2. Safety play is more important in this defense than CB

    no.2 is questionable, but it just seems that way with everything the safeties are asked to do.

    Going out signing a pass rusher is what this team needs more than anything. This secondary will be plenty ready by next year, at least they'll be a year older. A pass rush will make them very good, no doubt about it. That said, if it's possible, we need to look at an upgrade over Sanders. As long as he's back there playing bad, Meriwether will look bad.
  19. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    Biiiiiiiingo my friend.

    Back in the day BB was considered enough of a genius to coach up the likes of duane starks. At least we thought he was a secondary genius, when his pass rushers were doing their thing. That's not a knock on bill, but no one goes anywhere without the horses. His defense, no mater is jesus christ is coaching it, will struggle in this area until they address it.

    I remember when CBs like Earthwindmoreland could come back here and play ok, these days we can't mask the DBs so well.
  20. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    can u tell me who tennessee's starting corners are w/o looking?

    now can u tell me who is on their d-line?

    the titans have the best defense w/ no name cb's, the key is pressure, and its pressure up front...

    the front 7 need more work, the cb's are fine
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