Tell my again why Woodley wouldn't be a good fit at OLB?

[hobbsownscoles]

And you're the resident football expert? Right.

Before you start claiming people are talking out of their ass you might wan't to take a look in the mirror.

None of your conversion ideas make sense thats all, woodley will never be an ilb and carriker will never be a lb period

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

And you're the resident football expert? Right.

Before you start claiming people are talking out of their ass you might wan't to take a look in the mirror.

No I am the resident football expert. Come to me and I will educate you in the art of the draft.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Bradley's not the most athletic, but I liked his awareness in coverage during Senior Bowl week.

It was Bradley's Senior Bowl that really piqued my interest in him for the Pats.

 

[sebman2112]

Woodley (265 pounds) was invited to the Combine but did not run in Indy. He ran two 40s in 4.74 and 4.84 seconds and the short shuttle in 4.42. Claiming to have a tight hamstring, he skipped the three-cone drill. He also had a 38½-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-9 broad jump and 29 bench presses.

Bradley
Pro-day: (6-3¾, 258) ran 4.76 and 4.75 in the 40.
Combine: (254) 4.72/40, 2.71/20, 1.56/10, 28/225, 35 1/2"v, 9'4"b, 4.17ss, 7.29 3-cone

Using the numbers above, Bradley consistently runs in the 4.7s, with longer arms he still gets within one rep at 225, his change of direction speed is better, he's not as explosive as Woodley.

Woodley's Pro Day numbers:
"At the Pro Day, Woodley ran a 4.71 40, posted a vertical leap of 38.5 inches and repped 29 times on the bench."

Previous Campus numbers for Woodley & Bradley:
Woodley:
Campus: 4.62 in the 40-yard dash … 355-pound bench press … 35-inch vertical jump … 32 7/8-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands.
Bradley:
Campus: 4.71 in the 40-yard dash … 330-pound bench press … 32-inch vertical jump … 32 1/8-inch arm length … 9¼-inch hands.

Also, Woodley was an ILB in HS, converted to DE his freshman year at Michigan, played OLB for two years, then converted back to DE his senior year, so he has plenty of experience at LB.

Considering the fallowing I would like to know again just how Woodley had a dissapointing senior campaign?

"Woodley became the first Wolverine to win the Lombardi Award (top lineman) and Ted Hendricks Award (top defensive end) in 2006. He was a consensus first-team All-American and was named Rivals.com National Defensive Player of the Year. Elected co-captain, he led the team with 16.5 stops for losses and 12 sacks. He collected 36 tackles (28 solos) and recovered four fumbles, returning one for a touchdown. He also caused four fumbles."

Also...

"In 49 games at Michigan, Woodley started 33 times. He recorded 177 tackles (129 solos) and ranks second in school history with 25 sacks for minus-228 yards and 50.5 stops for losses totaling 286 yards. He caused 10 fumbles, recovered four others, including one that he returned 54 yards for a touchdown and had five pass deflections."

Just for comparison here's Bradley's numbers:

"In 43 games at Nebraska, Bradley started 29 times. He finished with 175 tackles (94 solos), four sacks for minus-31 yards and 25 stops for losses totaling 75 yards. He registered 21 quarterback pressures, deflected three passes and returned an interception 43 yards for a touchdown. He recovered four fumbles and had three forced fumbles."

Prior injuries:

Woodley:
"2005: Sat out the Northwestern game (Oct. 29) and saw limited action vs. Ohio State due to an arm contusion.

2007: Suffered a hamstring pull during Senior Bowl practices (Jan. 23)."

Bradley:
"2004: Left the Baylor game at halftime with a left knee sprain.

2005: Missed the final seven games after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee during the third quarter of the Texas Tech (Oct. 8) game."

Again, I want people to realize I want Woodley for SILB, and I want him for his run stuffing/tackling ability/pass rush/and mean streak. I don't wan't Woodley to play WILB. I think Woodley would be a better version of Ted Johnson on the inside.

 

[sebman2112]

None of your conversion ideas make sense thats all, woodley will never be an ilb and carriker will never be a lb period

I was one of the people saying Carriker would be better at DE, and I didn't really see him at LB (it was BOR who suggested him at LB)....Also it's funny you say Woodley will never be an ILB, since he already has been...

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

You've already stated you question Bradley's coverage skills while everything I've read and heard suggest his coverage skills are decent for a big LB. Woodley missed the Senior Bowl, but he was there for some practices, I thought he struggled working at his normal DE slot. Bradley was used at both SLB and WLB, he filled very quickly against the run and showed good awareness in the passing game. One made himself look good, the other appeared to struggle and left with an injury that held him out of the game.

Woodley (265 pounds) was invited to the Combine but did not run in Indy. He ran two 40s in 4.74 and 4.84 seconds and the short shuttle in 4.42. Claiming to have a tight hamstring, he skipped the three-cone drill. He also had a 38½-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-9 broad jump and 29 bench presses.

Bradley
Pro-day: (6-3¾, 258) ran 4.76 and 4.75 in the 40.
Combine: (254) 4.72/40, 2.71/20, 1.56/10, 28/225, 35 1/2"v, 9'4"b, 4.17ss, 7.29 3-cone

Using the numbers above, Bradley consistently runs in the 4.7s, with longer arms he still gets within one rep at 225, his change of direction speed is better, he's not as explosive as Woodley.

The number one reason to prefer Bradley over Woodley, he's already playing LB, Woodley is a conversion project. Since both are getting private workouts from the Pats, I'm sure BB & Co. can assess their relative value and what they need to do for success in New England. For my assessment, one came back from season ending injury to lead his team in tackles and perform well in the Senior Bowl and at the combine. The other was credited with an disappointing senior season, disappointing Senior Bowl, did not run at the Combine, and pulled up lame at his Pro-day. There is madness to my method.

Now, why not compare Woods and Woodley? You are projecting Woodley as a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods "is" a LB in the Pats 3-4. Woods ranked #4 in ST tackles with 11 in 8 games (compared to team leaders Izzo 14 in 16gp, and Andrews 15 in 15gp, not too shabby). Woods demonstrated enough skill at OLB to win a roster spot as a UDFA while the 6th round draft pick walked. Woodley is a wannabe who could be a LB in the NFL. Let's not LOL too loudly about the comparison just yet.

I actually agree with the comparison of Woods and Woodley. Woods, at 6'5 250, has the measureables that we are looking for. I definitely would like to add another prospect.

The number one reason to prefer Bradley over Woodley, he's already playing LB, Woodley is a conversion project. Since both are getting private workouts from the Pats, I'm sure BB & Co. can assess their relative value and what they need to do for success in New England.

I agree with BOR.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Woodley's Pro Day numbers:
"At the Pro Day, Woodley ran a 4.71 40, posted a vertical leap of 38.5 inches and repped 29 times on the bench."

Previous Campus numbers for Woodley & Bradley:
Woodley:
Campus: 4.62 in the 40-yard dash … 355-pound bench press … 35-inch vertical jump … 32 7/8-inch arm length … 9 7/8-inch hands.
Bradley:
Campus: 4.71 in the 40-yard dash … 330-pound bench press … 32-inch vertical jump … 32 1/8-inch arm length … 9¼-inch hands.

Also, Woodley was an ILB in HS, converted to DE his freshman year at Michigan, played OLB for two years, then converted back to DE his senior year, so he has plenty of experience at LB.

Considering the fallowing I would like to know again just how Woodley had a dissapointing senior campaign?

"Woodley became the first Wolverine to win the Lombardi Award (top lineman) and Ted Hendricks Award (top defensive end) in 2006. He was a consensus first-team All-American and was named Rivals.com National Defensive Player of the Year. Elected co-captain, he led the team with 16.5 stops for losses and 12 sacks. He collected 36 tackles (28 solos) and recovered four fumbles, returning one for a touchdown. He also caused four fumbles."

Also...

"In 49 games at Michigan, Woodley started 33 times. He recorded 177 tackles (129 solos) and ranks second in school history with 25 sacks for minus-228 yards and 50.5 stops for losses totaling 286 yards. He caused 10 fumbles, recovered four others, including one that he returned 54 yards for a touchdown and had five pass deflections."

Just for comparison here's Bradley's numbers:

"In 43 games at Nebraska, Bradley started 29 times. He finished with 175 tackles (94 solos), four sacks for minus-31 yards and 25 stops for losses totaling 75 yards. He registered 21 quarterback pressures, deflected three passes and returned an interception 43 yards for a touchdown. He recovered four fumbles and had three forced fumbles."

Prior injuries:

Woodley:
"2005: Sat out the Northwestern game (Oct. 29) and saw limited action vs. Ohio State due to an arm contusion.

2007: Suffered a hamstring pull during Senior Bowl practices (Jan. 23)."

Bradley:
"2004: Left the Baylor game at halftime with a left knee sprain.

2005: Missed the final seven games after suffering a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee during the third quarter of the Texas Tech (Oct. 8) game."

Again, I want people to realize I want Woodley for SILB, and I want him for his run stuffing/tackling ability/pass rush/and mean streak. I don't wan't Woodley to play WILB. I think Woodley would be a better version of Ted Johnson on the inside.

ok, I understand Woodley played ILB at HS, but in college he primarily played DE in the 4-3 scheme. I agree that he less of projection for LB than Moss or Spencer, but he nevertheless still is a projection.

 

[sebman2112]

ok, I understand Woodley played ILB at HS, but in college he primarily played DE in the 4-3 scheme. I agree that he less of projection for LB than Moss or Spencer, but he nevertheless still is a projection.

Primarily? He played 1 year at DE, then 2 years at OLB, then 1 year at DE. He played half his college career at OLB.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

here's the negatives on Woodley. And I'm not picking on him because I do like him. He's on my board. But here they are.

Can be neutralized by double-team blocking, as he struggles to hold his ground vs. the larger blockers … Because of all the position moves, he has not had time to develop solid read/react ability and plays more on instincts … Needs more than several reps to retain plays and might struggle in a complicated system (best when freelancing) … Might have the size and experience at linebacker, but even when playing that position, he was pulled in obvious passing situations (struggles getting good depth in his drops) … Has a great motor, but will sometimes get too out of control and over-pursue … Even with his strength, he can get washed out of the play when trying to work through the trash … Lacks ideal height and bulk to play in a base defense, but has the speed to cause problems playing wide off the edge … Has good lateral range, but looks sluggish opening his hips through transition.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/woodley_lamarr

Woodley might make the projection to LB in the NFL. Then again he might not.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Primarily? He played 1 year at DE, then 2 years at OLB, then 1 year at DE. He played half his college career at OLB.

if you are pulled in obvious passing situations, you're not a primarily a LB who can cover/pass rush. That's why they moved him to DE in his Senior season.

 

[sebman2112]

here's the negatives on Woodley. And I'm not picking on him because I do like him. He's on my board. But here they are.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/woodley_lamarr

Woodley might make the projection to LB in the NFL. Then again he might not.

Here are the positives (I can be selective too):
Positives: Has a shorter-than-ideal frame, but shows good upper-body thickness, wide hips, good bubble, muscular arms and very good straight-line speed … Aggressive and physical edge rusher who plays with a high motor and a very competitive nature … Will go until the whistle and demonstrates the upper-body power to stack, shed and press off coverage … Hard worker in practices and the training room and takes well to hard coaching (will do whatever the staff asks, evident by playing a different position in each of his years at Michigan) … Excellent edge rusher who constantly beats the blocker with his initial quickness … Has the initial step off the line and times his jumps well shooting the inside gaps … Does a good job of making adjustments on the move and has the lateral range to get to the perimeter and force the outside running game back inside … Plays more on instincts than ball recognition (needs to settle down at one position), but shows ease of movement flowing to the ball and a sudden burst to fill the rush lanes … When he stays low in his pads, he is capable of driving through blocks and also demonstrates functional ability to anchor at the point of attack … Showed improvement in 2006 in using his hands to stack and control … Was also more effective using his hands to shed … Very aggressive taking on blockers and even if he loses the battle, he will not throttle down, quit or get frustrated … Uses his hands well to defeat blocks and keep the opponent from attacking his feet … Pursues the play with vigor and has fluid lateral agility in pursuit, showing good urgency throughout the chase … Best when given a free lane to close in and flush the quarterback out of the pocket … Applies constant pressure coming off the snap and has the change-of-direction skills to pursue from the backside … Explosive closing on the ball in the short area and has the valid foot speed to make plays outside the box … Hits, wraps and drives through the ball carrier with good technique, doing a good job of adjusting in space and fit to finish … Generates good pop on contact and hits low, with good violence … Comes off the edge with a very effective hand slap, rocking the blockers back on their heels … Has multiple rush moves and the range to chase down the play … Can play linebacker, but is much more instinctive when he lines up with his hand down as a defensive end … Shows the leg drive to change direction in an instant … Displays impressive hip snap turning and takes good angles while keeping his hands active to defeat the block … Gets nice inside position with his hands shooting the gaps (lacks bulk to split double teams, though) … His ability to explode off the edge is due to his flexibility and counter moves in attempts to come under the tackle … Lacks size, but shows strength on his bull rush (hard to take him off his feet once he gets moving).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/woodley_lamarr

 

[sebman2112]

if you are pulled in obvious passing situations, you're not a primarily a LB who can cover/pass rush. That's why they moved him to DE in his Senior season.

They moved him around to much. If he was able to play SILB and stay there he would be a force.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Here are the positives (I can be selective too)

woooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Touchy.

The positive are there, and that is why he is on my board. But I had a point, he was pulled in pass situations during his stint at LB, and in his Senior season, they decided to move him to DE.

If he was a DE his first two years, and then they moved to OLB and he flourished, I would agree with you that he would be a OLB. But because of the move to DE in his Senior season, I peg him as a DE who could project very well to OLB.

 

[sebman2112]

woooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Touchy.

The positive are there, and that is why he is on my board. But I had a point, he was pulled in pass situations during his stint at LB, and in his Senior season, they decided to move him to DE.

If he was a DE his first two years, and then they moved to OLB and he flourished, I would agree with you that he would be a OLB. But because of the move to DE in his Senior season, I peg him as a DE who could project very well to OLB.

No it's just that someone else already claimed I said something I didn't (I never suggested Carriker at OLB), and BOR was somewhat selective with the numbers he used, so they would support his arguements. When you posted only the negs I thought you were doing the same thing.

As I said before I don't want Woodley for his coverage skills, but for everything else. He is a beast at the LOS. I also think if he played one position (instead of moving around so much) it would help his coverage skills. Woodley was also a track & field athlete, and a Basketball player, which doesn't really mean all that much, but it suggest he might be a little more agile than people think. I'll take him in a heart beat.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

No it's just that someone else already claimed I said something I didn't (I never suggested Carriker at OLB), and BOR was somewhat selective with the numbers he used, so they would support his arguements. When you posted only the negs I thought you were doing the same thing.

No I wasn't. I acknowledge the positives.

Now as far as the draft board, we are a "cliquey" group. Don't be upset if your favorite "bull" shall we say gets gored in here. Everybody has a favorite, and sometimes somebody "gores" it. LOL

 

[hobbsownscoles]

Just because the guy played ilb in high school doesn't means he has the ability to play it in the nfl. Im sure a lot of the DBs in the draft played qb in high school, does that mean they can play qb in the nfl?

 

[sebman2112]

No I wasn't. I acknowledge the positives.

Now as far as the draft board, we are a "cliquey" group. Don't be upset if your favorite "bull" shall we say gets gored in here. Everybody has a favorite, and sometimes somebody "gores" it. LOL

Nah it doesn't really bother me if someone doesn't like one of my targets, because opinions are like azzholes....

It does bother me when people make stuff up, or BS numbers to make someone look better. You didn't do this (so no problems with you), but I have noticed a few people doing it on here.

 

[sebman2112]

Just because the guy played ilb in high school doesn't means he has the ability to play it in the nfl. Im sure a lot of the DBs in the draft played qb in high school, does that mean they can play qb in the nfl?

You have anything intelligent to add? Still trying to find where I said Carriker would be a good LB? Clown!

 

[hobbsownscoles]

You have anything intelligent to add? Still trying to find where I said Carriker would be a good LB? Clown!

get off my **** for a second just because I proved your stupid assesment of Woodley playing ILB in high school as basis for him being one in the nfl after playing 4 years of DE rushing the passer every play as stupid

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Nah it doesn't really bother me if someone doesn't like one of my targets, because opinions are like azzholes....

It does bother me when people make stuff up, or BS numbers to make someone look better. You didn't do this (so no problems with you), but I have noticed a few people doing it on here.

I'm not you, so its no skin off my nose, but Box of Rocks gets a free pass concerning his opinions due to his seniority. There is a heirchy. People have seen only a very little of you (300 some posts) so right now we are kind of getting used to your posting style, what kind of poster you are, etc.