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Tell Me Again How It's All About Abortions

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    And I'll tell you again - either you're being made a fool of or you understand exactly what's happening and you don't give a dam about single mothers or poor mothers or young mothers or teen mothers or illigitimate children or poor children or unwanted children or neglected children or battered children or any other kind of women and children.

    And these guys were bold enough and confident enough to say so.


    Until July 1, a low-income New Hampshire woman paid an average of $5 to fill a birth control pill prescription at any of the state's six Planned Parenthood clinics. She might have even gotten the birth control for free, depending on her poverty level.

    But since the New Hampshire Executive Council voted to cancel the state's contract with Planned Parenthood, a woman now has to pay anywhere from $40 to over $100 for birth control pills at a regular pharmacy.

    The Council, a constitutionally empowered group of elected officials, rejected up to $1.8 million in state funding for the family planning-provider -- about 20 percent of its total annual funding -- and stripped its authority to dispense low-cost birth control and antibiotics to uninsured patients.

    "We can't even provide patients with antibiotics for urinary tract infections or STDs anymore," said Jennifer Frizzell, a spokesperson for Planned Parenthood of Northern New England. She said Planned Parenthood has had to turn away 20 to 30 patients a day who are showing up to refill their prescriptions.

    "We have to send them away with a prescription knowing that without insurance, they have to pay the full cost of that at a local pharmacy, and many patients have told us they're not gonna have the money in their budget to afford to fill those prescriptions."

    New Hampshire lawmakers rejected multiple attempts to defund Planned Parenthood during the 2011 legislative session, voting repeatedly in favor of continuing to fund PPNNE using the state's federal family planning money. But the Executive Council, which oversees state contracting and generally stays out of hot-button political issues, overturned the decisions of both the state legislature and the Department of Health and Human Services with its 3-2 vote against Planned Parenthood.

    The three Councilors who voted against funding for Planned Parenthood said they did so because some of its clinics provide abortions, even though those abortions are entirely privately funded. Councilor Raymond Wieczorek of Manchester added that he opposed funding for birth control and condoms altogether.

    "If they want to have a good time, why not let them pay for it?" he told the Concord Monitor last week.


    About 42 percent of women in the state who qualified for family planning subsidies sought care at one of the state's six Planned Parenthood clinics. Frizzell said many patients were drawn into the clinics to fill a birth control prescription, and would then agree to an annual pap smear or STD testing. Abortions accounted for only three percent of PPNNE's services.


    Planned Parenthood Defunded In New Hampshire
  2. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Women shouldn't have sex until they are married. When they are married and have a couple of kids, the father has no liability when he gets divorced and marries again.
  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    you poor kid
  4. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    I'm Michelle Bachmann and I endorse this message.
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Why can't women just learn to resist the penis ... :p
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

  8. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    There's condoms and not having sex until your ready to have a kid. Look, Sex is not a right, it's not the government's job to ensure people can go knocks some boots without possible consequences...

    I don't get the problem here, I do not want my tax dollars going to provide cheap birth control so people can continue to have sec without responsibility.

    Perhaps that's what's happened to our society... lack of responsibility?...???
  9. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    And on another note...

    I want my government to start Planned Drunks, when I go out, I sometimes don't have the money to get wasted AND buy a taxi home, so I drive, endangering myself.

    My government should set up Planned Drunks where they provide cheap, or sometimes free depending on your poverty level, ride homes. That way I can stay out and blow 75.00 on 6 beers, and not worry about having to save for my way home, or try to drive home and change my life forever...


    Damn that sounds like a dumb idea... And no way I would expect EVERYONE to fund it...
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  10. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    My Last note: It is not the governments job to subsides a habit, a practice, an exercise, a routine, etc... Why only this habit or action? Why not others? I don't want my money being used for that, I don't get the need for you to want our money to be used for the benefit for so few compared to the tax paying base?

    Why not instead focus your efforts to raise private funds through charity and other avenues to get the funding you want, in order to provide the free benifit you want too to the people you want too...

    Why are you wanting to force me to support your view points?


    In this Thread you = liberal viewpoint
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I agree with everything you say here, BUT if we choose not to help educate and provide for prevention of unwanted births, which you can certainly argue isn't a proper role of government, we also have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. It's easy to say people should be more responsible, but in the real world, that doesn't get it done.
  12. DarrylS

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    The generic right wing response, all you youngun's exercise self control, all the while in the 20th century there has been little control when it comes to sex.

    More unwanted pregnancies, more unwanted babies, more state involvement, more interventions with unwanted babies on every level= the right wing response.

    These decisions will reap dire unintended consequences...
  13. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    This is one of those things, I don't think tax payers should have to pay for other peoples medication BUT when the medication is over-priced sooooooooo much that a normal person making a decent wage is having a hard time paying, there is a problem and our government should step in and do something but at the same time look for ways to improve the system and shift more of the cost burden to the consumer.

    Why are BC pills 40-100$?

    That's the real issue, it should not cost an arm and a leg to have good contraceptive and imo should be readily available,hell i'd even for as far to say put it in all high school lunches.

    Making BC pills should not be something you make a whole lot of money off of imo, why do something then if you don't make money? cause you set a good example and you better the world and yourself. I realize you can't eat that for feed your family with that but I believe with everything in my heart that if you start doing the right thing, good things will happen and prays and dreams will come true.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The same could be said for cancer medication or Aids Medication.. but ain't gonna happen, big pharma is all about the bottom line.
  15. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    We tax cigarettes becuase it is a low cost habit which has a high cost effect way down the road in health costs.

    Sex is also a low cost habit which has a HIGH cost effect down the road in health costs +.

    ---------------

    The real solution to this situation, and something that would get everyone's attention. Add a 20% tax to all forms of Safe sex in order to pay for free birth control to those who can't afford it.

    If the government can tax cigarettes to pay for others healthcare, they can tax condoms and other contraceptives in order to provide free stuff to a select few.

    It's the way of our country, let's tax everyone to give a small special interest free stuff.
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Not sure I'm reading this right, but your suggestion would further decrease the use of condoms and other contraceptives.

    The legimitate reason for taxing cigarettes, from a theoretical perspective, is that the market costs don't reflect the true overall cost. That doesn't hold for contraceptives. (When I say legitimate, I'm differentiating from the "sin tax" approach of trying to modify behavior because it's not approved of.)
  17. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Honestly, my idea would simply infuriate people and bring attention to the tax and spend policy that most people don't even realize they are paying for. With Taxes on contraceptives, people every day would see... damn, why do those people need free birthcontrol!!!

    The Market costs aren't reflected in condoms either... A child could potentially become a prisoner for life which costs millions... A child could end up drawing from Medicare and Medicaid, nearly their entire life, and not contribute a dime. Not too mention, if the mother has no healthcare, and no coverage, the 30k cost of a pregnancy is rather expensive, and the condom tax will off set it, again, let's tax everyone for the benifit of the very small few.

    All I'm pointing out is if we are going to tax other hobbies, we need to tax others.

    Overall, I think no taxes should be levied in order to force everyone to support helping a very small percentage of the people.

    I much rather have private charities, and churches help those in need, so you can choose to help people if that's your thing, and you can use your own money to support the csuses you want to support... no be forced to support free birtch control in order to ensure 16 year old girls in the inner city can knock boots with anyone and not worry about being a single mom.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You need to ask the John Edwards of the world that question.
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey


    I know you hate "personal experience" but, dam, Mcgraw, I hate generalizations just as much.

    What makes you think that the majority of Planned Parenthood clients are 16 year old girls from the inner city?

    Almost 80% of people who visit Planned Parenthood are over 20 years old.

    Almost 80 percent of Planned Parenthood's clientele are age 20 and over. Seventy-five percent of the people who use its services are at or below 150 percent of the poverty level -- $33,525 for a family of four in 2011.

    http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/0...ding-family-plannings-not-a-gop-family/print/

    Do you think married men and women do not need low cost medical care relating to sexual conditions such as pregnancy, birth control, infections, breast exams, pap smears, urine tests, etc?

    Do you really think that the only people receiving low cost birth control and exams are 16 year old ghetto girls?

    About 4.7 million Americans get health care from clinics funded by Title X money, according to the Guttmacher Institute.

    Planned Parenthood estimates that one in five women have received health care from one of its 800 clinics at some point in their lives.


    http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/0...ding-family-plannings-not-a-gop-family/print/

    You better believe that's some white people and some chinese people and some men people and some country people and some other various non-inner city people.

    I just, honestly, don't understand it. You don't want people having abortions, you don't want easy affordable birth control - what do you want? Involuntary sterilization?

    It's all well and good to say that the little 16 year old ghetto dope should keep her legs crossed, but what about the church going white farmer's wife who's already got 4 kids and can't afford another? What should she do? Keep her legs crossed, too, or should she honor the bible she believes in and submit to her husband and perform her marital duties? (And don't come back and tell me about rhythm because it doesn't work for any but the most regular cycled woman with a fairly high intelliegence level and a committment beyond believable.)

    What about all of our aged citizens in nursing homes? Shouldn't we cut them off of aid, too? Obviously they didn't plan very well since they've outlived the life they could have afforded.....maybe some church charity could take them over, too?

    Maybe I do make it "personal," too often. And maybe I am "different." I mean, after all, I AM white. But I don't think so. I understand that things happen - they happened to me and they happen to other people. I don't think I'm all that different. I was young, I was stupid, I needed help. I didn't have a "chuch" that would have helped. I surely wouldn't have had the capabilities of seeking one out, either. (In fact, my two experiences with "chuch" pretty much convinced me that they were the last people who were going to "help." The Catholic hospital where I delivered my son refused to let me see him for 2 days because they spent those 48 hours trying to high-pressure me into giving him up for adoption - to someone who would "love him," like I could not) and the second was the catholic church where I'd gone to grammar school who would not baptize him with the other "good" babies but insisted it be a private ceremony not held at the altar.) But the government, they DID help me. Not for long and not very much, but enough to let me know I wasn't alone and that somewhere, someone cared enough that my baby would be able to eat and have a place to sleep.

    Later on in life, after I was married and had two more children, those two children were born with a genetic disease. An expensive genetic disease. One that our insurance (our two insurances combined) did not begin to cover. Once again, the state of Indiana stepped up and helped defray some of the cost for a few years. I worked, my ex-husband worked, but the medical bills were staggering. Both children would have died without the meds and treatments and surgeries and hospitalizations that the state helped us pay for. Should they have been allowed to die? Should I have been forced to travel from charity to charity begging for coins? All three of my children are now healthy, active, hard working tax payers.

    So sure, sometimes people abuse the system. People abuse everything at sometime or another - but do we condemn everyone because of those few?

    The truth is, you have no idea of how long the majority of people stay on welfare or whether they buy orange soda pop or bananas with their food stamps. You assume that people are not like me - I assume they are.

    The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

    But the middle means that half the people our tax dollars help go on to lead productive lives and they eventually contribute, the same as we do, to society as a whole.

    Do you really want to throw them all away?

    Better yet, would you have wanted to be the one to look me in the eye and say, "I'm sorry, MrsP, you should have planned better. You should have anticipated that your children would be born with an expensive disease. It's your fault for not knowing the future and therefore, your children must die."

    Because that's what you're asking someone to tell people.
  20. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    I never said 1 racist thing... only you inferred that urban meant black... I've seen plenty of white trash, Chinese trash, trash in general, and they all fall under the category of takers from the system and don't put back anything in return.

    Again, In your entire post you never addressed the core question I have raised multiple times...

    Why is it my responsibility, or anyone elses to ensure 1 out of 5 women get cheap healthcare? I don't get why you feel the other 4 out of 5 need to pay for the 1 out of 5?

    That is the issue here, why do you feel compelled to force others to pay for it? Why can't you rely simply on charity, therefore people who WANT to support those actions, can, and those who don't, don't have too.


    Do you support Oil Subsidizes?

    Its the SAME idea... And this is the fun part of politics... for every measure people use government to achieve, like providing cheap or free healthcare to those in poverty, the other side uses the same rationale to provide cheap or free taxes, or subsidizes to Oil companies...

    The majority paying for the few is wrong.

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