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Tedy Bruschi on the Tony Carter play

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...25/ne-patriots-good-lucky-beat-denver-broncos

    Awesomely detailed discussion.
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tedy gives great information about the Vice Position and how the player normally should veer off around the 15. However, what he doesn't mention is what the responsibility of the return man is in regards to making the call that he's going to let the ball drop.

    Troy weighed in on that and basically pointed the finger at Welker.

    So, while there is some fault to Carter (who may or may not have been coached to veer off), there is clearly fault on the Denver Special Teams Coach and on Welker.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Like the "blame Welker" explanation better!!!
  4. BritPat

    BritPat Rookie

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    I think Welker himself has said he was to blame and that he should have given the warning much earlier than he did.
  5. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Every Patriots player, when discussing a loss and/or a botched play, in effect says "Pay no attention to what anybody else appeared to do wrong; it was all my fault." Welker is upholding that tradition.

    Tedy, by way of contrast, is spreading the blame more widely. I don't think he means to exonerate Wes; he just thinks Carter and/or the coaches also screwed up, in that Carter should never have been that close to the ball even without Welker warning him off.
  6. shmessy

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    Tedy played 3 years with Welker as a teammate. He's a good guy.

    Every other NFL player and coach (Mariucci, Ditka, Billick, Dungy) analyst the past two days has been saying the fault was Welker's as he clearly was signaling off too late.
  7. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

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    Every other player and coach are being narrow minded. It's very easy for people to proportion blame on a single man, but unless you actually dissect the play (which is often difficult without the play book), it's very tough to actually comment.

    FYI Bruschi is 100% right and it isn't the first time I have heard the double vice mentioned before (I'm searching vigorously to find a link for you). He should never have been there.

    Welker has to take a huge proportion of the blame because he should know the call and should know that Carter isn't where he's supposed to be. He's the only guy on that play that is in a position to direct everyone else and he failed to do so.

    However there were more failings than Welker's and Bruschi hits the nail on the head. The desperation of Pats fans to put 100% of the blame is embarrassing. He had a really bad game...which I love...but I'm nto letting it cloud my judgement.
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Few plays as bad as that muffed punt are possible unless more than one person screws up. It makes perfect sense to me for Carter and Welker to BOTH be at fault.

    (Exception: Receiver or ball-carrier flakes out and turns over the ball for no reason, e.g. by batting away what should have been an easy catch.)
  9. Wax Frog

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    My lame attempt at outing any get-the-reference Trek nerds:
    [​IMG]
  10. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who said anything about "100% of the blame"?

    Why make stuff up?

    Welker screwed up in a clutch situation (again). But saying that is not what you contend is being claimed in your post.

    He was one of the guys who screwed up on that crucial play.

    And he was 1 reception for 5 yards in 5 targets in the 4th Q and OT on Sunday night.

    Why make that any more than it is?
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2013
  11. DaBruinz

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    Re: Tedy on the Tony Carter play

    Actually, it's not that tough to comment. Do you really think that the Broncos Punt return scheme is magically different from everyone elses? I can guarantee you that it's not. The difference would be in nomenclature.

    Troy Brown was a punt returner in this league. He basically said that Welker was late making the call to warn off his teammates. I love Tedy and he does give a good analysis, but he never returned punts so he doesn't know how fast the action goes on back there because he's never been there as he pointed out. Welker didn't make the call until about 2/10ths of a second before the ball hit the ground.

    Also, there is no "desperation of Pats fans to put 100% of the blame on Welker" as you put it. The only blame I put on Welker is that he didn't make the call in time to give his teammates a chance to react.

    There is definitely blame on the Broncos Coaching Staff. First, the fact that they were going to try and return it at all. The second, that they did the double stack vice that would put more Broncos players in traffic when they knew that there had been fumbling issues by both sides all game.

    And yes, there is some blame on Carter because he was the unlucky guy who the ball hit after it bounced.
  12. Ivan

    Ivan On the Roster

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    I liked Peyton's analysis much better. They were supposed to get the ball back and if they had he could have won the game, and it was only because they didn't that they didn't win. And given his performance going into the wind i understand his confidence. they had a good .0000000005 % chance of scoring had they just gotten the ball back into his hands.


    ST unit meet the bus Peyton is throwing you under.........................



    It wasn't Peyton's fault, he's just saying...............





    If anyone wonders what i am talking about listen to his post game press conference, they just needed to git him the darn ball.................
  13. JMarr

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    Wow, thanks for posting that Fencer. Love this type of in-depth analysis from someone who truly knows what he's talking about.
  14. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    No kidding. I [stupidly] thought that Peyton's days of throwing everyone else under the bus when he lost were over. I even almost started to like him when he sounded like Brady or Belichick in his pre-game comments (self effacing and just giving the Pats a lot of credit, etc. etc.)--until I actually heard his post-game comments about how the reason they lost was solely because he didn't get the ball back. Absolutely sickening. I hope the Broncos lose out now.
  15. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this blast from the past sums it up nicely:

    [​IMG]
  16. brdmaverick

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    I was thinking the same. I would expect nothing else of Wes. THere is no way he pulls an RGIII
  17. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Re: Tedy on the Tony Carter play

    Good point. If there's a play that some coaches wouldn't use AT ALL for fear of fumbles, Sunday night was a particularly lousy time to use it.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Carter's already acknowledged that he heard Welker warn him off. He just didn't have enough time to get away, partly because Cole had shoved him off balance.

    High kick into the wind
    Carter late to the play
    Cole makes a heads up play knocking Carter off balance
    Ball takes the right bounce, twice



    Patriots win
  19. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anyone remember when Carter played here? He and Welker must still be on our payroll...
  20. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought he was only on the practice squad, but I see he actually did play in three games. Another former Bronco that followed McDaniels to Foxboro and had a huge impact.

    The New England Patriots | Player Archive | Tony Carter

    2010 Season
    2010 (3/0, 0/0)

    Began the season on the New England practice squad before being signed to the 53-man roster on Dec. 18.

    Played in the final three games of the regular-season and was inactive for the postseason game vs. N.Y. Jets (1/16).

    Made his Patriots' debut on special teams vs. Green Bay (12/19).

    Played on defense and special teams at Buffalo (12/26) and vs. Miami (1/2) and Bills (12/26), finishing with one tackles against the Dolphins.​





    As for still being on the payroll, I'm surprised that a quick search only netted one conspiracy theory - though I'm guessing there are probably a few on various message boards that didn't quickly appear on google.

    Wes Welker-Patriots Conspiracy Theories | So Is Wes Welker A Double-Agent For Bill Belichick, And/Or Still Suffering Concussion Symptoms? | SportsGrid

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