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Tebow working on zone-read plays in practice (EDIT: and "catching passes" too)


I have less of a problem with that than "<QB> just wins". No he does not "just win", his team did. And round we go...

I'm just having a bit of fun.
 
I'm just having a bit of fun.


LOL... I know it's bit of a contrarian viewpoint, Pats fans always used this argument in the great Brady vs Manning debates....
 
This is going to be the final time that I post about Tebow.

If PatsFans.com did a poll asking the question:

If the Patriots starting quarterback had a completion percentage that was below 50% and was among the league leaders in 3 and outs, do you believe that the Patriots coaching staff and Bill Belichick would keep that quarterback, whomever that may be, in the starting lineup?

Common sense would tell you which side of that poll (yes or no) would win.

I watched the Broncos in 2011 because of where I live (I live in the Broncos market and had to deal with watching that team with Tebow as their quarterback). Anyone that supports Tebow can make all of the claims that they want about him.

He has never been to a Super Bowl. He never beat the Patriots. I have to tell you that watching the Broncos that season was painful because you pretty much knew that nothing was going to happen until the 4th quarter.

The Broncos, as far as I am concerned, were the worst league representative in the playoffs that year even though they beat the Steelers because they allowed D. Thomas to run a route where there was no safety.

Back in the day, the Broncos would have not even made the playoffs in 2011 (i.e. back in the 1970s and 1980s) when there were only two teams getting a wild card birth and the league divisions were more concentrated (three divisions in comparison to four divisions).

Case in point - if the Broncos had the season that they had in 2011 in 1980, do you know who would have won the AFC West just based purely on season record? It wouldn't have been the Broncos.

It was by the grace of the league that they expanded the playoffs in order for teams like the Broncos to go 8-8 and claim a "divisional title".

If it was any other quarterback on the Broncos or any other team that brought their squad to an 8-8 season with one playoff win at their stadium, this whole thing would be a much ado about nothing story. But since this is Tim Tebow and because he won a Heisman in his sophomore season, its' something because fanatics want it to be.

With that said - if the Broncos had a season like they had in 2011 back in the 70s and 80s, it would have been a mere formality that the Broncos were not a playoff team and in this league, it is simply not good enough.
 
It probably is. But it doesn't make it factual. I believe that is called the argumentum ad populum fallacy.

I agree. But this conversation started about wins and you said people judge QB's by wins. I have a hard time agreeing with that. Judged by championships or rings? That I can buy. And that's true for any big name in sports. How was LeBron James judged before and after his rings?

Montana also threw 0 INTs in all his Super Bowls combined and he's known to this day for leading his team to one of the most clutch drives this sport has ever seen. It goes beyond just winning, it's putting your team on your back and elevating your game when it matters the most.


The irony here is that you are doing exactly what you say isn't, or shouldn't be done. A Championship is just a trophy given for winning yet another game. Granted, it's the Championship game, but it's a game none the less.

As you have pointed out, Ben played like crap and got a Championship. Dilfer got one. Yada, yada, yada.

People didn't say "Well, if Brady puts the team on his back and is the main reason they win ANOTHER Ring, then Brady will be GOAT."

No, they just say that he needs 1 more ring.

It's a case in point example of QBs being judged by their wins and losses, which is exactly the point that I have been making.
 
;)



Not going to argue with that. But did he really do that all by himself?



I have no idea what BB and Josh are planning to do with him but it will be very interesting to say the least.



I believe this is the root of the problem. Even when someone says "QB X won Y many games last year", they aren't saying that he did it all by himself. It's understood that it's a team game.
 
The irony here is that you are doing exactly what you say isn't, or shouldn't be done. A Championship is just a trophy given for winning yet another game. Granted, it's the Championship game, but it's a game none the less.

No I don't think so. Don't forget that a championship isn't just winning one game, there's a whole bunch of games - some of which extremely meaningful - to be won to even get there. A much bigger body of work. And there's a reason a guy like Brady can lead his team to multiple championships but the likes of Dilfer will never get more than one ring.

As you have pointed out, Ben played like crap and got a Championship. Dilfer got one. Yada, yada, yada.

Those examples speak loud and clear. What more proof do you need that it's myopic to give QB's credit for "wins"?

People didn't say "Well, if Brady puts the team on his back and is the main reason they win ANOTHER Ring, then Brady will be GOAT."

No, they just say that he needs 1 more ring.

Well if he stinks it up in that SB game and the team wins the ring despite him I don't think you'll hear them talk that way.

It's a case in point example of QBs being judged by their wins and losses, which is exactly the point that I have been making.

Again you are talking about rings, not just wins and losses.
 
I believe this is the root of the problem. Even when someone says "QB X won Y many games last year", they aren't saying that he did it all by himself. It's understood that it's a team game.

Then... do you think it makes sense to say "<QB> just wins?" when you just admitted that QB's do not win games on their own?
 
This is going to be the final time that I post about Tebow.

If PatsFans.com did a poll asking the question:

If the Patriots starting quarterback had a completion percentage that was below 50% and was among the league leaders in 3 and outs, do you believe that the Patriots coaching staff and Bill Belichick would keep that quarterback, whomever that may be, in the starting lineup?

Common sense would tell you which side of that poll (yes or no) would win.

I watched the Broncos in 2011 because of where I live (I live in the Broncos market and had to deal with watching that team with Tebow as their quarterback). Anyone that supports Tebow can make all of the claims that they want about him.

He has never been to a Super Bowl. He never beat the Patriots. I have to tell you that watching the Broncos that season was painful because you pretty much knew that nothing was going to happen until the 4th quarter.

The Broncos, as far as I am concerned, were the worst league representative in the playoffs that year even though they beat the Steelers because they allowed D. Thomas to run a route where there was no safety.

Back in the day, the Broncos would have not even made the playoffs in 2011 (i.e. back in the 1970s and 1980s) when there were only two teams getting a wild card birth and the league divisions were more concentrated (three divisions in comparison to four divisions).

Case in point - if the Broncos had the season that they had in 2011 in 1980, do you know who would have won the AFC West just based purely on season record? It wouldn't have been the Broncos.

It was by the grace of the league that they expanded the playoffs in order for teams like the Broncos to go 8-8 and claim a "divisional title".

If it was any other quarterback on the Broncos or any other team that brought their squad to an 8-8 season with one playoff win at their stadium, this whole thing would be a much ado about nothing story. But since this is Tim Tebow and because he won a Heisman in his sophomore season, its' something because fanatics want it to be.

With that said - if the Broncos had a season like they had in 2011 back in the 70s and 80s, it would have been a mere formality that the Broncos were not a playoff team and in this league, it is simply not good enough.
You sound extremely bitter. If, if, if, if if... As a Tebow fan, I'm sorry you were forced to turn on the tv and watch 2011 Broncos football. While it appeared the town of Denver came alive with joy and excitement, you must have been suffering. I'm sorry it was so painful for you.
It's too bad Tebow played poorly for 3 quarters, but rose to the occasion (along with his teammates) in the 4th quarter when it's crunch time. It was such a disappointment to watch.
 
This is going to be the final time that I post about Tebow.

If PatsFans.com did a poll asking the question:

If the Patriots starting quarterback had a completion percentage that was below 50% and was among the league leaders in 3 and outs, do you believe that the Patriots coaching staff and Bill Belichick would keep that quarterback, whomever that may be, in the starting lineup?

Common sense would tell you which side of that poll (yes or no) would win.

I watched the Broncos in 2011 because of where I live (I live in the Broncos market and had to deal with watching that team with Tebow as their quarterback). Anyone that supports Tebow can make all of the claims that they want about him.

He has never been to a Super Bowl. He never beat the Patriots. I have to tell you that watching the Broncos that season was painful because you pretty much knew that nothing was going to happen until the 4th quarter.

The Broncos, as far as I am concerned, were the worst league representative in the playoffs that year even though they beat the Steelers because they allowed D. Thomas to run a route where there was no safety.

Back in the day, the Broncos would have not even made the playoffs in 2011 (i.e. back in the 1970s and 1980s) when there were only two teams getting a wild card birth and the league divisions were more concentrated (three divisions in comparison to four divisions).

Case in point - if the Broncos had the season that they had in 2011 in 1980, do you know who would have won the AFC West just based purely on season record? It wouldn't have been the Broncos.

It was by the grace of the league that they expanded the playoffs in order for teams like the Broncos to go 8-8 and claim a "divisional title".

If it was any other quarterback on the Broncos or any other team that brought their squad to an 8-8 season with one playoff win at their stadium, this whole thing would be a much ado about nothing story. But since this is Tim Tebow and because he won a Heisman in his sophomore season, its' something because fanatics want it to be.

With that said - if the Broncos had a season like they had in 2011 back in the 70s and 80s, it would have been a mere formality that the Broncos were not a playoff team and in this league, it is simply not good enough.


Howdy Belichick. Along with the book recommendations I made for you last night, I'll go ahead and provide you with some one on tutoring.

The subject that we will start off with is vocabulary. Here's the word of the day:

CONTEXT

con·text
[kon-tekst] Show IPA

noun
1. the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.

2. the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.



Pay particular attention to definition #2 as it's germane (relevant) to the discussion.


Tim Tebow was seen as a 2-3 year project when he was drafted.

In his second NFL season, he took over as the starter for a team that had gone 5-22 under the previous starter. (Psst, that means that in the starter's 27 prior games, they had won a measly 5 of them while losing 22.) ****Disclaimer, I'm going from memory here, so there's a chance that my numbers might be slightly off, but not enough to matter.

Could also throw in there that this particular year, there was a lockout so the "preseason" was seriously abbreviated.

At any rate, Tebow came off the bench and took over as the starter in game 6. At this point, the previous starter had already racked up a record of 1-4.

By the end of the season, Tebow had led the team to a final record of 8-8, to be sure, BUT, HIS record as a starter was 7-4 which is a winning % of 63.4%.

Remember again, this is a kid who was seen as a 3 year project, who came off the bench after just over 1 year into that "project" and went 7-4.
 
Then... do you think it makes sense to say "<QB> just wins?" when you just admitted that QB's do not win games on their own?

Firstly you're taking my initial statement way out of context, and secondly you're contradicting yourself by awarding Brady credit for winning a championship when I explicitly mentioned a national championship and a successful pro season for Tebow. You're also ignoring the fact that I specifically mentioned the strength of the team around him. In other words using Tebow just wins" out of context is a straw man.
 
I love the smell of quarterbacks who have a career 47.9% completion percentage in the morning. It smells like victory.

- Robert Duvall at Patriots Practice last week

Ok that was actually funny.....I'll give you this one .
 
Firstly you're taking my initial statement way out of context, and secondly you're contradicting yourself by awarding Brady credit for winning a championship when I explicitly mentioned a national championship and a successful pro season for Tebow. You're also ignoring the fact that I specifically mentioned the strength of the team around him. In other words using Tebow just wins" out of context is a straw man.

No I was asking Demo what he thought of that statement. I already stated what I think of it.

And I didn't "award" Brady any such thing.
 
Yeah .... at the University of Florida. Wasn't Eric Crouch a winner at the University of Nebraska?

And Tom Brady was a winner at Michigan.

And it was a wind up anyway.
 
Do we have a 2nd and 3rd candidate to take belicheck's vow?
 
In other words using Tebow just wins out of context is a straw man.
At least Tim Tebow destroyed Mark Sanchez's confidence or whatever was left of it. Thereby, it further increased the suckage in New Jersey.
 
No I was asking Demo what he thought of that statement. I already stated what I think of it.

And I didn't "award" Brady any such thing.



And there's a reason a guy like Brady can lead his team to multiple championships but the likes of Dilfer will never get more than one ring
.

Brady can "lead" his team to championships. Your words. Not a lot of difference between leading a team to victory and being a winner.
 
No I don't think so. Don't forget that a championship isn't just winning one game, there's a whole bunch of games - some of which extremely meaningful - to be won to even get there. A much bigger body of work. And there's a reason a guy like Brady can lead his team to multiple championships but the likes of Dilfer will never get more than one ring.



Those examples speak loud and clear. What more proof do you need that it's myopic to give QB's credit for "wins"?



Well if he stinks it up in that SB game and the team wins the ring despite him I don't think you'll hear them talk that way.



Again you are talking about rings, not just wins and losses.


hehehehe /headshake. A "ring" is just a memento signifying that a game was won. Granted, it's the championship game, but it's still just winning a game.

IF you take the position that QBs absolutely shouldn't be judged by wins and losses, because it's a "team game", then it absolutely follows that they shouldn't be judged by # of rings either. And that winning just 1 more ring wouldn't move a QB up 1 spot on the list to be the GOAT.
 


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