TE Witten's new contract and its impact on Daniel Graham

[DaBruinz]

What? Petitti not only started all 16 games, he played EVERY offensive snap.

Adam - Don't shoot the messenger. That is what was reported all over the place, including ESPN. I will gladly say that Petitti played in all 16 games since that is what NFL.com has listed for him.

So you're saying Petitti was better than Kaczur and Mankins?

What I am saying, Adam is that Petitti was better to start the season than either Kaczur or Mankins. That happens, Adam. Where a rookie player taken later in the draft out-plays people taken in front of him. Happens all the time. Its why the draft is considered a crap-shoot.

Now, I will say that Mankins ended up settling in and solidifying the line at LG when players were changing all around him. I expect Mankins to get even better this year.

Kaczur played very well, but he obviously couldn't win the job out of TC, though he did keep Ashworth on the bench until Kaczur went down with a shoulder injury.

Kaczur and Gorin were the starting tackles for only five games, and in three of those, Ashworth played as a backup. (Ashworth even started one of those games -- as a blocking tight end.) Ashworth missed only two games. And Gorin had started 10 games at right tackle in 2004 -- he wasn't exactly a sixth-round rookie.

Give me a friggin break. Gorin was a friggin turnstile in 2004 and was only marginally better last year. Its why Graham's numbers dropped off so dramatically in 2004 after Ashworth went down.

Also, its pretty amazing how during the Dillon discussions people recognize how a fluctuating O-line can disrupt things, but they ignore them when talking about other positions.

And you're saying that Petitti being forced into the starting lineup during the preseason was better for the Cowboys than if had had been a backup for eight weeks before being thrown in? I'm not buying it.

I don't care what you are buying, honestly. Yes, it IS better for Petitti to get STARTING REPS in TC than to get reserve reps in TC. It is better for him to get starting reps during the season than to get back-up reps.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't care what you are buying, honestly. Yes, it IS better for Petitti to get STARTING REPS in TC than to get reserve reps in TC. It is better for him to get starting reps during the season than to get back-up reps.

I've got to admit I got a little bit lost in the semantics of this sub-debate, but near as I can figure, DaBruinz started with the notion that Witten and Graham were uncomparable because Dallas didn't suffer OL injuries like the Pats - even though they did.

Now the notion is that Witten and Dallas actually had an ADVANTAGE over Graham and the Patriots because they lost players to injury for the ENTIRE season, rather than just part of it, like the Patriots? And that advantage was further helped by the fact that a 6th round rookie had to step into the gap rather than a 1st rounder or 3rd rounder like the Patriots?

Aren't we stretching a little bit now? Dallas suffered signficant OL turmoil and while Witten saw a drop in numbers (down to 67 from the mid 80s a year earlier), on an extrapolated percentage basis, football outsiders clearly stated that Witten was a much better TE than Graham. Given the fact that Graham has never cracked 40 receptions in his career I think common sense supports that notion as well, and expecting the Patriots to pay Graham as much as Witten isn't likely to happen.

I suppose one might be able to make the case that Dallas might have an advantage if they lost Drew Bledsoe for an entire season rather than just part of the season, but I'm not so sure for OL.

 

[AdamJT13]

Adam - Don't shoot the messenger. That is what was reported all over the place, including ESPN.

Mankins, Ware and Johnson were the only FIRST-ROUND picks to start all 16 games. There were plenty of other rookies who started all 16 games, including Petitti, Lofa Tatupu, Dan Buenning, Nick Collins and Michael Roos.

What I am saying, Adam is that Petitti was better to start the season than either Kaczur or Mankins.

So you're saying in Week 1, Petitti, a late sixth-round pick forced into the starting lineup because of an injury to the starter, was better than Mankins, a first-round pick who was named a starter before the first preseason game? OK ...

Yes, it IS better for Petitti to get STARTING REPS in TC than to get reserve reps in TC. It is better for him to get starting reps during the season than to get back-up reps.

You're still missing the point -- it's not about what's better for Petitti, it's about what's better for the team. It would have been much better for the Cowboys to have their starter around for the first eight games, like the Patriots had with Ashworth. And it would have been better for the Cowboys to have their starter return to the starting lineup, as Ashworth did. And it would have been better for the Cowboys to have their starter playing part-time as a backup for several other games, as Ashworth did for the Patriots. Instead, the Cowboys didn't have their starter. They had a sixth-round rookie starting from Week 1, learning on the fly AND playing through a high-ankle sprain. There's no question the Patriots' situation at right tackle was far better than the Cowboys' situation.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Just wanted to confirm what my gut told me is correct. Watched some game DVRs from last seasonmyself - just got a sampling of some of the later season games to see where Graham was positioned during the play.

In a nutshell, Graham was all over the place, not tied to the line like a 6th OL which seemed to happen very rarely - really only in blitzing situations.

In many cases he'd come off the line, deliver a tremendous block, often just about leveling players as he ran his route but then looked like he was an eligible receiver who admittedly didn't seem to have the ball thrown his way all that often.

Realizing of course, none of that's game tape focusing on Graham, but just for my own sanity I wanted to be sure I wasn't talking out of my ***** when I say there's no way that Graham was "kept in" 90% of the time.

 

[shakadave]

Graham will stay

Just my prediction: Graham is a critical part of BB's vision for our offense of the next 4 years. BB has spent years drafting TEs and young O-linemen, now it's time to start abusing defenses.... Read today's good Tomase/Herald article (another thread) for more evidence.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Random Graham thoughts...

• I've always viewed Graham as a player who hasn't reached his full potential yet, but still can, as he'll be only 28 in November. In other words, he best football is still ahead of him, IMO.

• If the Pats let him walk as a UFA, he'll likely land in his native Denver and should improve Denver's running game and might realize his potential as a receiving TE. Do we want to see that happen?

• As far as using the Franchise Tag: Branch (if unsigned) or Graham?

• As many have rightly pointed out, Graham's blocking can't be overlooked.

• Why hasn't Graham held out like Branch?

• Watson has been injury prone, so far.

• I hope the Pats get Graham extended. I really do.

 

[PatsFan37]

I'm sensing a repeat of last year's Seymour holdout, when Vrabel was extended before Seymour got his booster shot.

Before they sign Branch, they'll remind everyone that holding out doesn't help and extend the quiet hard-working warriors. Look for Graham or Samuel to be extended before Branch. I'm guessing it's Graham and it happens sometime in the next few weeks.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sensing a repeat of last year's Seymour holdout, when Vrabel was extended before Seymour got his booster shot.

Before they sign Branch, they'll remind everyone that holding out doesn't help and extend the quiet hard-working warriors. Look for Graham or Samuel to be extended before Branch. I'm guessing it's Graham and it happens sometime in the next few weeks.

I'd be fine with that, because if they extend him a year early, that means he'd be taking well below the market rate he'd expect as a free agent. And again, judging by Witten's $4 mil a season, that would make his market rate no more than $3 mil a season IMO, and you can knock off $500,000 a season easy for getting a new deal a year early.

So if he were to re-up at $2.5 mil a season I'd be all for that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

With Vernon Davis just setting the high water mark for TE's without ever setting foot on an NFL field, I kinda doubt Graham will be amenable. He knows Denver is more than interested. TE are becoming all the rage. A good season this year could net him a couple of million more in bonus and guarantees. But his durability and his age are working against him. He'll turn 28 in November which means in FA he'll be looking for a 6 year deal that will cover 29-34....but from a teams standpoint the amortization goes back up to 6 next season too so bonus money will flow in 2007 deals...

I think BB has questions about Graham (and Watson) that need to be answered this season before they can slot Graham on a future roster. So I doubt they will try to sign him before mid season. And by then if he's performing well his agent will be telling him to gut it out and go for the big bucks. And he can always be transitioned in case the real big bucks don't materialize and we want to think about retaining him at whatever his market turns out to be.

I do think they would love to sign someone else early who hasn't yapped. Just not sure any of the three likely candidates (Graham, Samuel, Koppen) have given the team sufficient reason to. They need to see durability, consistency and the ability to rebound from injury where these three are concerned IMO.