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TE Witten's new contract and its impact on Daniel Graham

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    With Jason Witten agreeing to a 7 year $29 mil contract (including a $6 mil signing bonus) it seems to me that Graham's market value is significantly less than that.

    Recognizing that we don't know the "true" value of Witten's contract yet - specifically how backloaded it is - Witten's numbers are significantly better than Graham's. He's been generally injury free and, not counting his rookie year, has had seasons of 66 and 87 catches. Not bad for a 3rd round pick.

    Hopefully Graham's agent makes note of this, and forgets about the fact that Graham's a former 1st round draft choice when entering negotiations. Sure Graham's a great blocker - as good or better than most offensive linemen... but then again, one wouldn't want to go into a game with an offensive lineman lining up at TE.

    Looking at Witten's contract, I'm thinking that Graham's value can't be more than $2 mil a season, with a $3 mil signing bonus if he's lucky.

    At those numbers I think everyone would welcome him back.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2005
  2. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agreee would like Graham back..but he may wish to venture out and depart...
     
  3. Isaac

    Isaac Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Yes, I suspect that regardless of contract numbers, Graham will seek greener pastures---a single tight end team where he will be used primarily as a pass catcher. I hope not, we'll miss him.
     
  4. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    You can't keep Graham out of passing situations and then say you are as good as other TEs because you don't catch a lot of passes.

    The fact that he blocks as well as a TE does not diminish his value, but raises it.

    Regarding number of catches etc, the only pertinent questin is: Who is the better pass catcher: Witten or Graham? If they are about equal (not withnmbers but with ability) then they are qorth equal pay. Give Graham an edge because of blocking.

    Not that he will get it, but it should indicate his worth.

    Don't knock his blocking ability and turn it into a negative. It is because he can both block and catch effectively that keeps defenses honest.

    I guess the question is: Would you trade him straight up for Witten? If they answer is maybe, then they are about equal. If you would trade in a heartbeat, then sure, he is worth less. If you wouldn't trade, then don't think you can him for less than Witten, never mind half of Wittens value.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I doubt Graham is worth much less than Witten. He can do enough of everything to make that arguement - except for staying healthy. Unfortunately this contract will also push the TE Franchise number up some although it's not so big that it'll blow it out too much. I think a "sign and trade" (I know it's a basketball thing but it applies) after being Franchised to entirely possible if they can't agree long term.
     
  6. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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  7. jeffd

    jeffd On the Game Day Roster

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    I think you are making the mistake of looking at Grahams value from the perspective of a sports writer or fantasy owner and not an NFL GM. All GM's know the value of a TE that can catch and block. I once watched Graham nearly single handedly take Dwight Freeny out of a game. I've also seen him become a "must double team" red zone threat. He is absolutely a top five value at the position. FAR ABOVE WITTEN.
     
  8. I'm Ron Borges?

    I'm Ron Borges? On the Game Day Roster

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    Come on you guys. Witten both blocks and catches passes. He's one of the best overall tight ends in the game. Graham stays in to block for a reason: he's not a great receiver. He's dropped a number of balls since he came to New England and found his niche as a blocker. There's nothing wrong with that but you can find a blocking tight end anywhere and the Patriots already have Watson and Thomas to catch the football. Putting Graham - a first round bust if we are being completey honest - in Witten's class is a joke. Graham is a decent player and nothing more. Witten is a Pro Bowler who wil proabably only get better. There is no comparison. Graham is closer to Dan Campbell than he is Witten.
     
  9. mcsully

    mcsully In the Starting Line-Up

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    2 or 3 million? Are you kidding.. No way he'll take that deal at all.. In free Agency alone he'll make close to what witten is makingl.. Which means that pats have to double what you are saying they should offer..
     
  10. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I've long felt that after everyone initially failed to recognize Graham's blocking skills, it became fashionable for a lot of fans to wax poetic about how great it is to have a TE who can play like an OL, rather than a TE who can play like a TE.

    The pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction that many fans seem to equate his value to that of a TE who's good for 60-90 receptions a season - i.e. worth $4mil - $6 mil a season depending on which contract report is correct. (The Boston Herald reported 7 years $29 mil).

    I know our OL has had injuried, requiring Graham to use those blocking skills more, but other teams have had OL injuries as well, and their TEs still put up signficant numbers.

    The bottom line is that the Patriots are not going to pay Graham anything remotely close to what Witten received, and if Graham is expecting that, don't expect to see him back next year.
     
  11. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Summarizing sentiments so far, is it fair to say? ...
    Patsfans think Grahambo is about a 3-to-4 million dollar per year value ?

    I'd pay him that. Would you?
    Would he take it?
     
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure I'd assume that. Belichick obviously values TE more than WR at the draft table and he might well pay Graham 50% annually of what Branch wants. In fact, looking at the way the Patriots draft I'd say Belichick would love to pay Graham $3.5M a year instead of paying $7M a year to Branch (I picked that number based on Borges claiming the Patriots are lowballing him at $5.6M a year).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2005
  13. drpatriot

    drpatriot Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'll take that any day, without question. :rocker:
     
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    But isn't this a re-hash of the same old argument, where some fans seem to think TE and WR are interchangeable positions?

    One wouldn't replace a WR by re-signing a TE. Aside from both catching the ball they are two totally different positions.

    The only way such a theory makes the least amount of sense would be if the TE had breakaway speed, had shown an ability to catch 60+ catches a year, and had a tendency to go long rather than the short to mid-range catches of a TE.

    Graham is none of the above, though does have an ability to gain yards after the catch.

    And as far as the excuse that our OL has suffered injuries - so too did Dallas' OL, and Witten still performed.
     
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    I'm not saying Graham could replace what Branch does. Simply that I think Belichick would be more likely to pay a TE $3.5M over paying a WR $7M. Just as he's happy to draft TE in the first round but tends to draft WR in the second round. That shows an inherent higher value placed on TE than WR at the draft table so I would imagine that re-signing a TE for half of what he can sign a WR would appeal to him. Of course, Graham needs to stay healthy and catch the ball a little more consistently this year.
     
  16. broadwayjoe

    broadwayjoe In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think we better enjoy our view of Graham this year because someone like the Redskins will pay him close to a Witten contract and the Pats go on value
    they hardly overpay players and we will draft another TE don't we do it every year.
     
  17. R_T26

    R_T26 Banned

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    We are seriously overvaluing graham hear. Witten is a much better overall tight end. And though teams love tight ends who can block, it doesnt mean they will a lot for them.
     
  18. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It's just another way Fantasy Football changes the way some people view football. You don't get fantasy points for being able to be versatile, only form number of catches and yards. So that is what some people base value one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2005
  19. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    I respectfully disagree.
     
  20. JD10367

    JD10367 Practice Squad Player

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    Hence the drafting of Ben Watson, Garrett Mills, and David Thomas.
     

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