Tbc In 2006?

[NOWAKJOE]

What do you think TBC role will be in 06? I thought he looked really good Sunday and in some of the pre-season games.Seems like he could be that hybrid DE/OLB that could be part of our rotations. And by now he should have a good grasp of our def. schemes.

 

[PATSNUTme]

What do you think TBC role will be in 06? I thought he looked really good Sunday and in some of the pre-season games.Seems like he could be that hybrid DE/OLB that could be part of our rotations. And by now he should have a good grasp of our def. schemes.

Haven't thought that far ahead because it would be disrespecting the Jags.

 

[miamipat]

To me its apparent he has the talent to play in this league it's just that he's playing behind two superior players in Colvin and Mcginest. Once Mcginest calls it quits (hopefully not next yr.) I expect a larger role for TBC.

 

[stinkypete]

I agree. It's tough to judge TBC thus far because he has always been playing behind pro-bowl caliber players. Two things convince me that TBC has a future in the LB rotation.

1) He has remained on the roster as a special teamer and mop up guy, despite the fact that we have had much more glaring needs in each of the last three seasons.

2) Linebackers make up the core of our defense, but Belichick has all but ignored the position in the past 2 drafts despite the age of Willie, Colvin's injury and Bruschi's stroke.

Altogether it makes you think that he has a replacement in house.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

TBC did look good in the pass rush, I don't remember him dropping in coverage. He was versitile enough during the season to be plugged in at DT on passing downs.

 

[marty]

What do you think TBC role will be in 06? I thought he looked really good Sunday and in some of the pre-season games.Seems like he could be that hybrid DE/OLB that could be part of our rotations. And by now he should have a good grasp of our def. schemes.

Thought he looked really good, and Chatham was no slouch either!

 

[DaBruinz]

I will be honest. I was very disappointed with Chatham and TBC. Both had too many penalties on Special Teams and they haven't advanced enough to help the Pats out in a regular rotation with the starters.

I honestly thought that TBC would have stepped up more to allow the move of Vrabel to the inside before the start of the season. It hurt the team that we had to have both Beisel and Brown in the middle and no one really able to call out the adjustments.

I am also disappointed in Vrabel. While Bruschi was out, I expected him to really step up his play. And he didn't. Now, that isn't to say that he stunk. He still played very well. But for being the smartest player in the LB corps, our LBs were the Achilles heal of the defense (more so than the secondary) until Bruschi got back.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I will be honest. I was very disappointed with Chatham and TBC. Both had too many penalties on Special Teams and they haven't advanced enough to help the Pats out in a regular rotation with the starters.

I honestly thought that TBC would have stepped up more to allow the move of Vrabel to the inside before the start of the season. It hurt the team that we had to have both Beisel and Brown in the middle and no one really able to call out the adjustments.

I am also disappointed in Vrabel. While Bruschi was out, I expected him to really step up his play. And he didn't. Now, that isn't to say that he stunk. He still played very well. But for being the smartest player in the LB corps, our LBs were the Achilles heal of the defense (more so than the secondary) until Bruschi got back.

Vrabel had to move to the inside, which is why you didn't see him stepping up as you expected.

Colvin's play was dramatically better at OLB this year and TBC and Chatham didn't have a prayer of cracking the Colvin/McGinest lineup.

The only ones to blame for the problems at ILB are Brown, Beisel, BB, Pioli, and possibly T.Johnson for retiring. I could add God to that for all the injuries and bad luck, but I don't want to piss him off

 

[marty]

I am also disappointed in Vrabel. While Bruschi was out, I expected him to really step up his play. And he didn't. Now, that isn't to say that he stunk. He still played very well. But for being the smartest player in the LB corps, our LBs were the Achilles heal of the defense (more so than the secondary) until Bruschi got back.

I should really just sit back and enjoy the reaction from this one, but I can't help myself!!!! cue Mora's voice - VRABEL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT VRABLE?
LB problems earlier in the season were when we were undergoing the Bisel/Brown experiment. Vrabes didn't get moved into the middle until around the time Tedy came back, and then he picked up the changes that move involved pretty quickly IMO!

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

The only time I was ever upset with Vrabel was in the 97 playoffs. He was a part time DE for the Steelers. His rush and forced fumble of Bledsoe sealed the Steelers 7-6 victory in the fog bowl.

IMHO, he is one of the players that best exemplifies the Patriot philosophy. How can I help my team win?

 

[dryheat44]

TBC hasn't done much this year. This is because in the eyes of Belichick, he is unable. Do you think Belichick wants Rosie and Willie playing every down?

That being said, TBC will be here next year for gunner duty.

 

[Mike the Brit]

TBC hasn't done much this year. This is because in the eyes of Belichick, he is unable. Do you think Belichick wants Rosie and Willie playing every down?

That being said, TBC will be here next year for gunner duty.

Got to agree with you (another of my great hopes not fulfilled ...)

 

[Brownfan80]

You can't knock Vrabel for the early season LB slump. Vrabel actually saved the day making tackles that both ILBs missed and saving much larger gains routinely early in the season. Go back and watch your tapes to see who is often making the tackle after the RB blows by Wilfork, Brown and Beisel. It's Vrabel more often than not. Keep in mind, that stopping a run up the middle at 8 yards is not technically his 'responsibility' but he routinely stopped those runs at 8 yards when they could have been 20+ plays otherwise.

The play of the ILBs and NT were horrid early in the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

Vrabel had to move to the inside, which is why you didn't see him stepping up as you expected.

Colvin's play was dramatically better at OLB this year and TBC and Chatham didn't have a prayer of cracking the Colvin/McGinest lineup.

The only ones to blame for the problems at ILB are Brown, Beisel, BB, Pioli, and possibly T.Johnson for retiring. I could add God to that for all the injuries and bad luck, but I don't want to piss him off

Lloyd -
I know that Vrabel had to move inside. That doesn't explain why I didn't see him stepping up as a leader. Also, why wasn't that move done earlier? If you listen to BB and Colvin, its because the players hadn't proven that they could handle it. Vrabel is supposed to be our smartest LB. If so, why wasn't he at ILB more earlier. Why did we have to toil for 7 games with Chad Brown and inexperienced Monty Beisel there?

Now, as for blaming Brown and Beisel for the problems at ILB, that is horse dung. Sorry, but how can you blame Beisel when the kid is playing the position for the 1st time? (Beisel played DE, OLB and MLB for the Chiefs, not ILB and there is a big difference between the two) Beisel was brought in to learn the defense and possibly be a poor man's Tedy Bruschi. There is no doubt in my mind that Beisel wasn't expected to be the starter this year but was expected to take a similar path that Bruschi took.

I guess you can blame Brown for not stepping up and I would agree. He didn't. And he's was a definite disappointment. More so than Beisel, though the popular belief on this board is that Beisel was a bust for BB and Pioli.

Yes, I do blame BB and Pioli for some of the problems at LB, particularly when it came to knowing about the health of Ted Johnson. I find it unthinkable, in this day and age, that BB and Pioli didn't know that Ted Johnson wouldn't be able to pass his physical because of PCS. Now, maybe they did and they were hoping that Claridge could step in right away, but that is asking alot from a rookie LB.

 

[DaBruinz]

I should really just sit back and enjoy the reaction from this one, but I can't help myself!!!! cue Mora's voice - VRABEL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT VRABLE?
LB problems earlier in the season were when we were undergoing the Bisel/Brown experiment. Vrabes didn't get moved into the middle until around the time Tedy came back, and then he picked up the changes that move involved pretty quickly IMO!

As I pointed out to Lloyd, Vrabel was supposed to be our smartest LB. If he is so smart, why wasn't he proving himself enough in practice to show that it would be better to have him inside with Colvin outside? If Vrabel is so smart, why wasn't he calling out the changes that needed to be made? Why was it being left to the untested Beisel and the unproductive Brown?

This is why I was disappointed with Vrabel.

 

[CrazyDave]

My 2cents: TBC looks like he's beefed up a bit, although it could be the new #. And Chad Brown flat out stinks. I replayed several plays that he should have been involved in, and showed them to my son. I wanted him to see how not to play linebacker. Did you see him run past that guy? Please.

 

[Arizona Patsfan]

You forgot an item of information...

Lloyd -
I know that Vrabel had to move inside. That doesn't explain why I didn't see him stepping up as a leader. Also, why wasn't that move done earlier? If you listen to BB and Colvin, its because the players hadn't proven that they could handle it. Vrabel is supposed to be our smartest LB. If so, why wasn't he at ILB more earlier. Why did we have to toil for 7 games with Chad Brown and inexperienced Monty Beisel there?

Now, as for blaming Brown and Beisel for the problems at ILB, that is horse dung. Sorry, but how can you blame Beisel when the kid is playing the position for the 1st time? (Beisel played DE, OLB and MLB for the Chiefs, not ILB and there is a big difference between the two) Beisel was brought in to learn the defense and possibly be a poor man's Tedy Bruschi. There is no doubt in my mind that Beisel wasn't expected to be the starter this year but was expected to take a similar path that Bruschi took.


I guess you can blame Brown for not stepping up and I would agree. He didn't. And he's was a definite disappointment. More so than Beisel, though the popular belief on this board is that Beisel was a bust for BB and Pioli.

Yes, I do blame BB and Pioli for some of the problems at LB, particularly when it came to knowing about the health of Ted Johnson. I find it unthinkable, in this day and age, that BB and Pioli didn't know that Ted Johnson wouldn't be able to pass his physical because of PCS. Now, maybe they did and they were hoping that Claridge could step in right away, but that is asking alot from a rookie LB.

Y'all talk about injuries. Perhaps the most devastating to the Patriots this year was the one that noo ne talks about. It was the one Vrabel suffered in the pre-season. It made it impossible to convert him to ILB, so he stayed at OLB until:
A) he recovered; and
B) Colvin's play imnmproved enough to allow his experimentation with the move.

This was done at the toughest time to do it, without benefit of TC, and I-N S-E-A-S-O-N !

It so happened that was about the time that Bru came back and the two collectively solved the ILB problem. We are now thin at OLB, we have only two good starters, but have two good reserve-onlies, in TBC and Chatham, as backups. That's wonderful for anyone else, for a BB team its a weakness!!

 

[italian pat patriot]

if i have to be honest i was expecting much more this year from Tully Banta Cain

with T.Bruschi and T.Johnson situations i thought that he should have been more involved not only in special teams

 

[patsox23]

Mike Vrabel didn't "step up as a leader?" In what sense? That doesn't wash, IMO. The D was severely hamstrung by poor play in the secondary - Geno and Asante, now THEY did not step up - the injury to #37, and crappy play by Beisel and Brown in the middle. If anything, I'd blame BELICHICK and MANGINI before Vrabel. Many people suggested moving Vrabes to the middle BEFORE the season started. They waited until mid-season to do it. Sure, ILB took even a smart guy like Vrabel some time to learn, but overall he's done a creditable job there.

Also, I think the poor showing by the D overall is being simplified here. In this system especially, one guy not knowing his stuff or not having it "in his bones" is enough to throw a lot of things out of whack. We had several throughout the year who were either:

A) still learning the position/scheme
B) injured
C) playing out of position
D) too stupid to grasp it - hi, Monty!

 

[mgteich]

We went into the season, having lost three linebackers. Surely, TBC and Chatham would be part of the solution and get many more reps! Vrabel is hurt in preseason, delaying his move inside. Surely, now TBC will play more!

Colvin and McGinist are playing outside without Vrabel after the half. Surely, Banta-Cain will get more reps NOW! Surely, Banta-Cain will get as many as Colvin last year.

There is only one reason for Banta-Cain doesn't get more reps. Mangini and the rest of the coaches believe that the team is better with him on the bench.

That being said, TBC is a decent special teamers and plays linebacker more than the other three in his position: Izzo, Davis and Chatham (well maybe about the same as Chatham).