Taxes and Salaries vs Loyalties

[IcyPatriot]

I tried my best to keep this small because we could discuss this for days on end. Have you ever noticed how few FA's go out of their way to play in Massachusetts in all of our major sports???

Much is made of salaries and being the highest paid. But those figures are off the mark when it comes to NET INCOME...which is an area most fans ignore.
For simplicity, because there are many ways to circumvent taxes, let's just stick to the "JOCK TAX"...of which 20 states have it and 4 sort of have it.

Players are effectively taxed (surcharged) the tax for every day they perform, workout, have meetings in that state.

Florida, Texas and Tennessee have no state income tax and a team tax but no "JOCK TAX"...3 teams BTW that have been extremely active this year in the FA Market.

So Massachusetts has a "JOCK TAX" of 5.3% and Wisconsin has 6.75%.
For simplicity again...not a tax site here:

$2.5 million in Massachusetts = $2.536 million in WI.

Seems like small potatoes to us, but if you look at Miguel's workout bonus figures and such it all makes sense. Some of these guys are penny pinchers supreme, ADAM VINATIERI SQUEEZES THE PULP OUT OF A GW $1 BILL.
It's as simple as that in my eyes if you take the "THIS IS A BUSINESS" approach to it all.

Any TAX SPECIALISTS HERE that can lay this out better?

I know when my wife worked in Mass (we live in RI). We had to file the Mass. State Income Tax form. Where you divide the days you worked in Mass by 365 and then used that % to figure how much you owed Mass.

Massachusetts is brutal on people who have to do this...perhaps a HUGE REASON why it's tough to get anyone to play here when they can play cheaper elsewhere.

 

[gomezcat]

If that is their reason for moving, then so be it. It's an old argument about taxes and one that belongs on the political forum.

 

[PATSNUTme]

If that is their reason for moving, then so be it. It's an old argument about taxes and one that belongs on the political forum.

No one cries foul any louder than I do when someone post something political.

But, this is a legitimate concern and it is not political. It is what it is.

There is an old saying. It's not what you make that's important, it's what you put in your pocket.

I couldn't concieve of an agent or financial advisor not bringing this up to a player. They could be sued for malpracice if they didn't.

FBN is not saying that the tax structure is right or wrong. He's just saying that it's a factor- and he's right.

 

[mikey]

I tried my best to keep this small because we could discuss this for days on end. Have you ever noticed how few FA's go out of their way to play in Massachusetts in all of our major sports???

Much is made of salaries and being the highest paid. But those figures are off the mark when it comes to NET INCOME...which is an area most fans ignore.
For simplicity, because there are many ways to circumvent taxes, let's just stick to the "JOCK TAX"...of which 20 states have it and 4 sort of have it.

Players are effectively taxed (surcharged) the tax for every day they perform, workout, have meetings in that state.

Florida, Texas and Tennessee have no state income tax and a team tax but no "JOCK TAX"...3 teams BTW that have been extremely active this year in the FA Market.

So Massachusetts has a "JOCK TAX" of 5.3% and Wisconsin has 6.75%.
For simplicity again...not a tax site here:

$2.5 million in Massachusetts = $2.536 million in WI.

Seems like small potatoes to us, but if you look at Miguel's workout bonus figures and such it all makes sense. Some of these guys are penny pinchers supreme, ADAM VINATIERI SQUEEZES THE PULP OUT OF A GW $1 BILL.
It's as simple as that in my eyes if you take the "THIS IS A BUSINESS" approach to it all.

Any TAX SPECIALISTS HERE that can lay this out better?

I know when my wife worked in Mass (we live in RI). We had to file the Mass. State Income Tax form. Where you divide the days you worked in Mass by 365 and then used that % to figure how much you owed Mass.

Massachusetts is brutal on people who have to do this...perhaps a HUGE REASON why it's tough to get anyone to play here when they can play cheaper elsewhere.

Ted Johnson's parents are from Houston and when Ted retired he could have moved his family to Texas where there is no income tax.

Instead, Ted decided to set up roots in Massacusettes where he can pursue a career in broadcasting and where his children can have better education and better overall quality of life.

There is a recent survey (see link below) on "livability" index of different states that take into account factors like education, weather, taxes, crime incidence, etc ... The surprising result is that the most "livable" places are in the Northeast, including Massachusettes which is ranked #7 out of the 50 states.

http://www.morganquitno.com/sr06mlrnk.htm

.

 

[IcyPatriot]

If that is their reason for moving, then so be it. It's an old argument about taxes and one that belongs on the political forum.

You're kidding...right? It is a major issue with athlete's. While the politics of enacting these tax laws may be political...the practical side of it is way huger than you realize...think again before posting crap. I knew one of you liberal political wankers would be lying in the bushes waiting for this opportunity...but you're wrong. Just because it's not a link doesn't make it useless. So here's a link for you...

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache1XQg0TM3_8J:www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2484882+espn+/+%22jock+tax&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

Bill Hickl of Mann Frankfort Stein and Lipp Advisors, the Houston firm that has a sports and entertainment division, says many clients are surprised when they get tax bills from states that don't have a state income tax.


"It can get complicated and expensive, especially when an athlete plays most of his games in states that have an income tax," said Hickl, whose clients include athletes and entertainers. "Some football players might receive 10 or 12 state tax notices, but in baseball, where teams play each other several times during the season, a player can get taxed in as many as 20 states, not to mention some cities."

To show what kind of effect a state income tax can have on a player's income, Hickl uses the Raiders and Texans as examples. California has a state income tax. Texas doesn't.

Take a rookie who resides in the city in which he plays. He received a signing bonus of $4 million and a base salary of $625,000 for the Raiders last season and paid $413,000 in state income tax. That figure's based on California's state tax rate of 9.3 percent.

A rookie making the same money for the Texans paid only $12,000. There's no state income tax, of course. That figure comes from games the Texans played in states that have a jock tax.

Based on the $4 million signing bonus and $625,000 base salary, Hickl produced charts that show the teams that get taxed the least because they have no state income tax. The following figures come from the jock tax: Texans ($12,000), Cowboys ($21,000), Buccaneers ($21,000), Dolphins ($21,000), Jaguars ($22,000), Titans ($25,000) and Seahawks ($32,000). The Raiders ($413,000) and Chargers ($413,000) were taxed the most. The 49ers ($404,000) were next. In other words, if you play in California, be prepared to pay more in state and jock taxes than any state.

 

[scout]

I would think that other sources of income in Ma. would offset the taxation. For instance, endorsements in Tennessee compared to Boston. Tampa for that matter is not a very big market. I just moved from Tampa to the North Shore of Chicago and other then the weather, there is no comparison. The food is outrageously better, schools are leap years ahead of Florida, which is a consideration for anyone with kids (including private). I drove past the Titans stadium on my way up. Looked like a new stadium with aluminum bleacher seats. Pretty open look from the highway, wasn't that impressed.
A defensive player having an opportunity to play for BB would be a plus. I think Dallas would have an advantage though, based on non-tax, Parcells, decent city, and Cowboy history.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ted Johnson's parents are from Houston and when Ted retired he could have moved his family to Texas where there is no income tax.

Instead, Ted decided to set up roots in Massacusettes where he can pursue a career in broadcasting and where his children can have better education and better overall quality of life.

There is a recent survey (see link below) on "livability" index of different states that take into account factors like education, weather, taxes, crime incidence, etc ... The surprising result is that the most "livable" places are in the Northeast, including Massachusettes which is ranked #7 out of the 50 states.

http://www.morganquitno.com/sr06mlrnk.htm

.

Nice but don't hijack my thread....stay on the subject please. An agent gets paid to offer all relevant facts and figures to their employers. It's a major factor for lesser paid athletes and penny pinchers.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I would think that other sources of income in Ma. would offset the taxation. For instance, endorsements in Tennessee compared to Boston.

So happy you mentioned this...because this post was born out of Brady's contract that I read on Miguel's Page... http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#brady

Here's some interesting language: ''Club and Player agree that Player will exhaust all reasonable efforts to establish relationships exclusively with Club's sponsors and media partners. If after exhausting all reasonable effort to work exclusively with Club sponsors and media partners and the player is unable to enter into a commercially reasonable relationship then player has a right to establish a relationship with a non-club affiliated entity."
''Player agrees that he will not, without prior written consent of Club, appear as a regularly scheduled guest or host of a radio or television production related to professional football for any local media other than a Club sponsored radio or television network."

Playing for the Patriots can be limiting in terms of "OTHER TAXES" and "Other Income"... I was going to go with the stuff from Miguel's page...but then realized it's all related and would have made the post too long.

Perhaps other teams have this labguage...perhaps some do and look the other way...but I don't see Kraft the businessman being lenient on this.

 

[PATSNUTme]

please don't turn this into a political arguement. People live in places for all different reasons.

Back on the real subject. Let me restate: ANY AGENT OR FINANCIAL ADVISER THAT DOES NOT BRING THE TAX ISSUE TO THE CLIENT CAN BE SUED FOR MALPRACTICE.

After that, the client make his decission for whatever reason he wants.

 

[IcyPatriot]

please don't turn this into a political arguement. People live in places for all different reasons.

Back on the real subject. Let me restate: ANY AGENT OR FINANCIAL ADVISER THAT DOES NOT BRING THE TAX ISSUE TO THE CLIENT CAN BE SUED FOR MALPRACTICE.

After that, the client make his decission for whatever reason he wants.

Thank You...I Have A Few wankers from my Political Forum days who lurk in the Bushes...

 

[len_mullen]

But NH is #1

There is a recent survey (see link below) on "livability" index of different states that take into account factors like education, weather, taxes, crime incidence, etc ... The surprising result is that the most "livable" places are in the Northeast, including Massachusettes which is ranked #7 out of the 50 states.

http://www.morganquitno.com/sr06mlrnk.htm

.

But NH is #1 and has no income tax. I think it's legit to think that taxes have an impact -- I've heard baseball players cite that as a reason not to play in Canada. BUT there are offsets. Boston has marketing opportunities that augment earning capability. To quote the poster, it is what it is. Do agents pay MA income tax? That would probably make a bigger difference since they are working the calculators

 

[Pats726]

Is this really a BIG issue??? Seems verry very small...

 

[len_mullen]

Big Issue?

Is this really a BIG issue??? Seems verry very small...

Who knows. I'm sure Green Bay and Tampa clubs talk about cost of living (mansion for the price of a house in Boston) and Taxes when they pitch to a player. I think it's probably just a contributing factor. Troy came back for an endorsement deal, right?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Who knows. I'm sure Green Bay and Tampa clubs talk about cost of living (mansion for the price of a house in Boston) and Taxes when they pitch to a player. I think it's probably just a contributing factor. Troy came back for an endorsement deal, right?

Think it's time to take that sig down, don't you?