Tavon Wilson

[PATS68]

Why would they cut Adrian Wilson and keep Tavon Wilson if he wasn't progressing somewhere on the anticipated path?

Why waste the cap money on Adrian Wilson and draft Harmon then? Wilson has zero stats for the year and Harmon has also got the nod over him.

Adrian Wilson is on IR not released.

 

[patchick]

I agree with Deus, this is a good thread for the reach on need vs. BPA method.

Although we just drafted Hightower, Lavonte David was by far the best player on the board at pick 48. I, and others in the draft thread, were screaming for the Pats to pick him. He only fell due to being undersized. We could've found a place for such a talented player on the field here.

LB wasn't that much of a need and we spent a 1st on it already, while safety was our #1 need. Result? Reach on a bad safety prospect, skip on great LB prospect.

But if we want to debate the merits of "reaching for need", shouldn't we be looking at all the times the Pats clearly "reached for need" and how they turned out -- rather than choosing one bad pick and extrapolating wildly?

The Pats seldom go into the draft with gaping roster holes, but when they do they tend to be aggressive in filling them. Three other crystal-clear need-driven reaches that leap to mind:

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo (by "chart value," far and away the biggest reach of BB's tenure)

 

[mgteich]

And then there was Seymour. The fans were up in arms.

But if we want to debate the merits of "reaching for need", shouldn't we be looking at all the times the Pats clearly "reached for need" and how they turned out -- rather than choosing one bad pick and extrapolating wildly?

The Pats seldom go into the draft with gaping roster holes, but when they do they tend to be aggressive in filling them. Three other crystal-clear need-driven reaches that leap to mind:

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo (by "chart value," far and away the biggest reach of BB's tenure)

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

But if we want to debate the merits of "reaching for need", shouldn't we be looking at all the times the Pats clearly "reached for need" and how they turned out -- rather than choosing one bad pick and extrapolating wildly?

The Pats seldom go into the draft with gaping roster holes, but when they do they tend to be aggressive in filling them. Three other crystal-clear need-driven reaches that leap to mind:

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo (by "chart value," far and away the biggest reach of BB's tenure)

Deion Branch and Stevan Ridley were other 'head-scratchers'. Some work and some don't, but you only seem to hear about the ones that bust.

 

[Deus Irae]

But if we want to debate the merits of "reaching for need", shouldn't we be looking at all the times the Pats clearly "reached for need" and how they turned out -- rather than choosing one bad pick and extrapolating wildly?

The Pats seldom go into the draft with gaping roster holes, but when they do they tend to be aggressive in filling them. Three other crystal-clear need-driven reaches that leap to mind:

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo (by "chart value," far and away the biggest reach of BB's tenure)

Mayo was a projected first round pick who was drafted in the first round. T. Wilson was a projected fifth, or lower, round pick who was drafted in the second round.

 

[Sciz]

I don't think the "value vs need" argument is completely valid. It's been widely reported that the Patriots have the smallest draft board in the NFL. Belichick showed with his next pick (60th overall) that he hated the value in the middle of that draft and was willing to take a huge discount to trade back. Isn't it completely possible that Belichick was stuck making that pick and took the best player on his board, who he may not have had worth anything near the 48th overall pick?

At least to me, that line of thinking makes a lot more sense than thinking that Belichick picked a sixth round safety in the second round because he thought he needed a safety that desperately.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think the "value vs need" argument is completely valid. It's been widely reported that the Patriots have the smallest draft board in the NFL. Belichick showed with his next pick (60th overall) that he hated the value in the middle of that draft and was willing to take a huge discount to trade back. Isn't it completely possible that Belichick was stuck making that pick and took the best player on his board, who he may not have had worth anything near the 48th overall pick?

At least to me, that line of thinking makes a lot more sense than thinking that Belichick picked a sixth round safety in the second round because he thought he needed a safety that desperately.

Your line of thinking doesn't hold up, because the logical extension of your argument would be to draft his 3rd round pick early, not his 5th round pick.

 

[Sciz]

Your line of thinking makes doesn't hold up, because the logical extension of your argument would be to draft his 3rd round pick early, not his 5th round pick.

I am making the assumption that wherever Wilson was on Belichick's board as far as draft round value, he was the top guy available. Maybe all of his third and fourth round "wants" were taken earlier, maybe he legitimately did not value anybody in those rounds and desperately wanted to trade back but could not. Perhaps, for example, he had Jones and Hightower as first round values, Tavon in the fifth round, Bequette valued later in the fifth, and the last three draft picks as priority free agents.


It's only slightly relevant to this, but on A Football Life on the 95 Browns (which is on right now), Newsome says that Belichick told him to always stick to the board, which is why Newsome drafted Ogden rather than Lawrence Phillips despite needing a running back and not really needing a tackle. That's the kind of guy that Belichick seems to be, and I don't see any reason to expect him to have reached for a player because of a need at a position.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am making the assumption that wherever Wilson was on Belichick's board as far as draft round value, he was the top guy available. Maybe all of his third and fourth round "wants" were taken earlier, maybe he legitimately did not value anybody in those rounds and desperately wanted to trade back but could not. Perhaps, for example, he had Jones and Hightower as first round values, Tavon in the fifth round, Bequette valued later in the fifth, and the last three draft picks as priority free agents...

In that case, he'd still have been horribly overdrafted, and you'd be assuming some absolutely horrible scouting on the part of the staff.


The most obvious explanation is the most likely: BB screwed up the pick just as he's been screwing up DB pics for years.

 

[Ring 6]

Your line of thinking doesn't hold up, because the logical extension of your argument would be to draft his 3rd round pick early, not his 5th round pick.

Sadly this argument, refuted 100s of times still lives. Players do not get drafted based on when they are projected. NFL GMs do not ask Mel Kiper who to pick.

 

[Sciz]

The most obvious explanation is the most likely: BB screwed up the pick just as he's been screwing up DB pics for years.

Deus logic. When arguing "why," assume the "what" and claim to be right.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Why waste the cap money on Adrian Wilson and draft Harmon then? Wilson has zero stats for the year and Harmon has also got the nod over him.

Adrian Wilson is on IR not released.

I do not think we will; ever see Adrian Wilson in a Pat's uniform again. More's the pity. He was a short term fix and patch and the clock is running out..

 

[AzPatsFan]

You are grasping at straws here with Wilson. He got replaced with a rookie, he should have made the second year jump. Also why would they sign A. Wilson if they thought T. Wilson was making strides?

My problem with this players is BB could have drafted him say 5th round on. Why waste a second round pick on him when you didn't need to? There were stud players drafted after Wilson that could have made a huge impact IE Ruben Randle or Reyes.

Idiocy. Pure Idiocy. You don't seem to know the difference between a Strong Safety and a Free Safety. Your example of extraneous players not playing the position is just the typical Draftnik Bovine pasture patties I was complaining about..Your selective memory and perfect hindsight is 20-20. Take your Mel Kiper draft lists, and go bother some other team that DOES NEED your precious draft help.

The JEST can't even draft Top Ten picks.. Please Go Help them. .

 

[unoriginal]

The Pats seldom go into the draft with gaping roster holes, but when they do they tend to be aggressive in filling them. Three other crystal-clear need-driven reaches that leap to mind:

Logan Mankins
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo (by "chart value," far and away the biggest reach of BB's tenure)

Mayo was a projected first round pick who was drafted in the first round. T. Wilson was a projected fifth, or lower, round pick who was drafted in the second round.

patchick got you with "chart value." Mayo was taken at pick 10, which is approximately 1,300 funbucks worth of draftpick. But he was scouted as a latter-half first round guy. Gosselin had him as the #19 player overall, and that was high value compared to most mocks. The internet is awash in mocks putting him between pick 29 and 32, if he was going in the first round at all. But even so pick 19 is worth 875 funbucks, thus Mayo was overdrafted by (at least) 425 points of chart value.

Tavon Wilson at pick 48 was worth 420 funbucks so...

 

[Joker]

that's nice and all...how much in "fun bucks" was Vernot Goatston worth drafted four picks higher than Mayo at 6?

 

[unoriginal]

1,600.....

 

[Joker]

heh heh...well...THAT is grand larceny...even if it IS only "fun bucks"

 

[jsull87]

Mayo was a projected first round pick who was drafted in the first round. T. Wilson was a projected fifth, or lower, round pick who was drafted in the second round.

that's a bit simplistic.

Mayo was predicted by most before the draft to be a late 20+ pick. He was picked number 10.

He was definitely considered a reach at the time.

 

[Joker]

Mayo was projected by ESPN's Mr. Peepers to be taken at the 21st slot...Clayton is and always has been a JOKE when it comes to the NFL draft.

Here is one of the greatest threads EVER at Patsfans...the "Mangini TRICKED Belichick and snagged Gholston!" story...it is GOLD, Jerry..pure gold..."Belichick is rumored to have TRIED to move up to #5 but Mangini pulled off a trade into the 6th spot and nabbed the guy BB wanted before he got to #10!!! Ha Ha !!! Belichick got OUTFOXED by Mangenius!!!! OG OG OG!!!"

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...10/81710-patriots-select-linebacker-mayo.html

Mayock called Mayo the best LB in the draft AFTER the Pats picked...read it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus logic. When arguing "why," assume the "what" and claim to be right.

You'are the one making the assumption, and you flat out admitted it:

I am making the assumption that wherever Wilson was on Belichick's board as far as draft round value, he was the top guy available.

I merely noted that the most obvious answer was the most likely. Don't go projecting your inane attempts at logic onto others.