Tate a Starter?

[Avenger]

I would like to see the KR job rotated between Vereen, McCourty, Slater, Dennard, Woodhead in order of highest number of returns.

 

[supafly]

I also want to see what a healthy Vereen can do on KORs, though now that the LawFirm has depahted, he'll likely be used on offense too much to be spared.

With the more violent tendencies of possible injury on KR (as opposed to PR), it's a tough call when trying to determine who to put out there; at least I would imagine so anyway.

I think that the organization is expecting a decent contribution from Vereen, and that they view him with a high ceiling of potential. The same is obviously true with McCourty also, and even though they are likely both players that could instantly improve the KR game, we may or may not see them out there depending on how Belichick views this issue.

We've seen guys like Hobbs out there as a primary returner, and at the time he was one of the top 2-3 CB's, so anything is possible; especially considering that Bill Belichick is not the kind of coach that would sacrifice the possibility to improve based on the worry of injury...but again, it's a tough call either way. I do think that McCourty was spared of this duty due to the worry that coincides exactly with what you are saying. As the season moved on, even Edelman didn't see much action there either, and that thinking could've been due to his need in taking more defensive reps.

There are guys like Edelman, Woodhead, and maybe even Dennard who could give the role a go first, as their absense wouldn't be nearly as missed as guys like McCourty or Vereen.

The other side of the coin of course is putting the best player on the field for every role at all times, so Belichick may feel that Vereen or McCourty may be the best option despite the injury concerns, especially if our depth is sufficient enough, and it may indeed be, depending of course on what the situation is heading into the season and throughout the year.

My thinking is that we may see the role spread out a bit between 2-3 guys, thus maximizing talent while also limiting exposure and potential injury risk. That may be the middle ground that would give us the best of both worlds.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

This discussion has reached the point of bizarre.
I have not said a single negative word about Tate, and yet you are writing posts about how I "flippantly attack his capabilities' and how I have a 'visceral hatred'.
Why not just argue your case (hint: because you don't have one) instead of creating some strawman like this?
You said:




And I questioned how you can so readily give a football player credit for something he never did on the field.

From there it turned into
1) You making excuses for why 4 games should equal a season and 12 should be overlooked as if they didn't matter. (As well as ignoring all of last year when he was in the exact situation you are saying will miraculous lead to him thriving)
2) Throwing childish insults around
3) Creating an entire strawman argument to attribute to me that has no resemblence to what I posted.
Oh, and 4) you must have watched Shawshank Redemption and learned a new word.
See why I have no interest in carrying on a discussion with you?

Go ahead and wind up and toss some great insults at me. Keep up the lame attempts to call me stupid. Hey, maybe its time to call me gay?
I'm done. I won't be responding any more.

Good job, Andy

Knowing when to quit when you are wrong and way behind is the first step.

No sense digging a deeper hole.

patsfaninpittsburgh will just assume you had your feathers ruffled because the "600 yard" comment in pfip's post must have inferred you can't do big boy math.

This is what made you miss the uber-relavent "range" in the sentence.

If you are truly interested in football, pfip really recommends that you read and study mayo's origional comment on Tate and tie the stats back to it.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I would like to see the KR job rotated between Vereen, McCourty, Slater, Dennard, Woodhead in order of highest number of returns.

The problem with the return game is it seems like nobody has been able to mix great return performance with great offensive production.

Josh Cribbs and Devin Hester have not become consistent offensive threats and the Cowboys don't like Bryant returning punts.

 

[captain stone]

I would like to see the KR job rotated between Vereen, McCourty, Slater, Dennard, Woodhead in order of highest number of returns.

I don't know how often McCourty returned KOs in college; I do recall that he was used as the gunner on Rutgers' KOR team.

I don't think that Woody has the long speed to be an effective KOR; OTOH, Edelman has shown that he can...go...all...the...way.

Dennard is an interesting possibility. The last CB to be our primary KOR (Ellis Hobbs) did pretty darn well.

Slater is simply putrid on KORs (and don't get me started on the rest of his game).

 

[strngplyr]

Good job, Andy

Knowing when to quit when you are wrong and way behind is the first step.

No sense digging a deeper hole.

patsfaninpittsburgh will just assume you had your feathers ruffled because the "600 yard" comment in pfip's post must have inferred you can't do big boy math.

This is what made you miss the uber-relavent "range" in the sentence.

If you are truly interested in football, pfip really recommends that you read and study mayo's origional comment on Tate and tie the stats back to it.

How exactly is he way behind again? He isn't arguing that Tate should be given credit for something he didn't do. Tate hasn't produced next to AJ Green, therefore, because Tate is going to play next to AJ Green, Tate will produce.

Logic.

Your 3rd person posting is also somewhat troubling.

schiz·o·phre·ni·a (skts-frn-, -frn-)
n.
1. Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and may have an underlying genetic cause.
2. A situation or condition that results from the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities:

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

How exactly is he way behind again? He isn't arguing that Tate should be given credit for something he didn't do. Tate hasn't produced next to AJ Green, therefore, because Tate is going to play next to AJ Green, Tate will produce.

Logic.

Your 3rd person posting is also somewhat troubling.

schiz·o·phre·ni·a (skts-frn-, -frn-)
n.
1. Any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, and hallucinations, and accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. Schizophrenia is associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and may have an underlying genetic cause.
2. A situation or condition that results from the coexistence of disparate or antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities:

This is really pretty simple.

Refer to mayo's origional comment.

The Bengals need receivers that can compliment AJ Green. Tate is competing for that role.

patsfans.com rings up a string of Tate sucks posts.

AGAIN, if you look at the first four games 2010, Tate contributed in a complimentary role with Moss still on the team and in a role the Patriots spent an entire offseason practicing.

11 receptions in 4 games is contributing for a down the chart option guy.

He struggled and was eventually cut because his role and the post Moss offense.

The post Moss Patriots offense is not what Cincinnati needs. They need a receiver that can fill a role similiar to what ACTUALLY happened when Tate played opposite Moss.

AGAIN, refer to mayo's origional point.

Job candidate contributed in "Situation A". He struggled in very different "Situation B".

You are the employer and need someone to employ to handle a job very similiar to "Situation A"......why do you care what happened in "Situation B"?

A guy does well in the resturant clearing tables, he sucks serving food.
You need someone to clear tables.......you worry about his history serving food?

Why didn't Tate play any WR in 2011? Can someone count the reasons?

Zero offseason......
Rookie QB........
Rookie #1 WR.......
Established WR already on the roster........
Return needs........
Player acquired post training camp cuts....
New trend with rookies and KISS..."keep it simple stupid"....

...and you don't understand why he didn't play WR?.....really?

The real question you need to ask is........"how can it be anything other than completely obvious why Tate wouldn't have played any WR and why it's so shocking with player experience AND a full offseason of work.....why anyone would be shocked that Tate can now start transitioning into playing WR"?

 

[strngplyr]

This is really pretty simple.

Refer to mayo's origional comment.

The Bengals need receivers that can compliment AJ Green. Tate is competing for that role.

patsfans.com rings up a string of Tate sucks posts.

AGAIN, if you look at the first four games 2010, Tate contributed in a complimentary role with Moss still on the team and in a role the Patriots spent an entire offseason practicing.

11 receptions in 4 games is contributing for a down the chart option guy.

He struggled and was eventually cut because his role and the post Moss offense.

The post Moss Patriots offense is not what Cincinnati needs. They need a receiver that can fill a role similiar to what ACTUALLY happened when Tate played opposite Moss.

AGAIN, refer to mayo's origional point.

Job candidate contributed in "Situation A". He struggled in very different "Situation B".

You are the employer and need someone to employ to handle a job very similiar to "Situation A"......why do you care what happened in "Situation B"?

A guy does well in the resturant clearing tables, he sucks serving food.
You need someone to clear tables.......you worry about his history serving food?

Why didn't Tate play any WR in 2011? Can someone count the reasons?

Zero offseason......
Rookie QB........
Rookie #1 WR.......
Established WR already on the roster........
Return needs........
Player acquired post training camp cuts....
New trend with rookies and KISS..."keep it simple stupid"....

...and you don't understand why he didn't play WR?.....really?

The real question you need to ask is........"how can it be anything other than completely obvious why Tate wouldn't have played any WR and why it's so shocking with player experience AND a full offseason of work.....why anyone would be shocked that Tate can now start transitioning into playing WR"?

A 'veteran' receiver in Tate was buried in a depth chart of rookies and JAGs and this speaks for him how?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

A 'veteran' receiver in Tate was buried in a depth chart of rookies and JAGs and this speaks for him how?

Is this is a serious question?

If so, pfip first would warn you that fire is hot and pain hurts.

Does ol' pfip need to donn a Captain Obvious suit to re-re-explain?

Seriously, the Bengals pick up a player that was essentially a second year post traing camp...and with a rookie QB, rookie #1 receiver, ZERO offseason, WR's already on the roster and familiar with the system, you don't see why this player would be limited to return duties and then incorporated into the offense with the benefit of a full offseason?

Captain Obvious? patsfaninpittsburgh can put on Adam Seward briefs and couldn't explain or comprehend why this isn't so obvious.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Good job, Andy

Knowing when to quit when you are wrong and way behind is the first step.

No sense digging a deeper hole.

patsfaninpittsburgh will just assume you had your feathers ruffled because the "600 yard" comment in pfip's post must have inferred you can't do big boy math.

This is what made you miss the uber-relavent "range" in the sentence.

If you are truly interested in football, pfip really recommends that you read and study mayo's origional comment on Tate and tie the stats back to it.

Actually from an outsider perspective you're the one who's wrong and far behind, not Andy. Real courageous on your part to continue throwing jabs after he said he's done with the discussion too.

The only reason your 600 yards comment would ruffle any feathers is because it's a complete fabrication. The extrapolated #'s puts him at 540 for an entire season, that is not 600 yards or close to it. And 0 TD's multiplied by 4 is 0, not 4-6 TD's, another # you pulled out of nowhere. For someone who preaches so much about mathematics, you have quite a few issues to work out with your calculations. So even going with the idea that 4 games is an accurate and legit sample, 540 yards and 0 TD's is still crap. It wouldn't have even made him the 3rd best option on that offense last year. You know, the year where he had ZERO catches...

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

If Moss had been retained in 2010, Tate would have been in the 40-50 catch, 600 yard, 4-6 TD range.

That would be feasible working with AJ Green.

Add in return duties and that's productive.

Despite what the idiot cackle box wants to post, the reality is the did help win games with the Miami and Minnesota games coming to mind.

Here is pfip's origional post.

Notice the bold word "range"......."range".......A benefit of a Massachusetts education is an understanding of English language words.

PATYLISCOUS...where are you?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Actually from an outsider perspective you're the one who's wrong and far behind, not Andy. Real courageous on your part to continue throwing jabs after he said he's done with the discussion too.

The only reason your 600 yards comment would ruffle any feathers is because it's a complete fabrication. The extrapolated #'s puts him at 540 for an entire season, that is not 600 yards or close to it. And 0 TD's multiplied by 4 is 0, not 4-6 TD's, another # you pulled out of nowhere. For someone who preaches so much about mathematics, you have quite a few issues to work out with your calculations. So even going with the idea that 4 games is an accurate and legit sample, 540 yards and 0 TD's is still crap. It wouldn't have even made him the 3rd best option on that offense last year. You know, the year where he had ZERO catches...

Pssst

It does seem to have escaped (not that anyone would ever believe it would have captured) your attention that the #2 and #3 receivers on the 2011 Bengals roster, Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson, are like......kinda not on the Bengals roster anymore.

This type of info might give one pause to not place undue influence on 2011. Are you expecting both players to repeat these performances for Cincinnati while playing for other teams?

pfip isn't.

Agree?

 

[TheComeback]

I think Tate's production will be up 100% next year. I predict 1 catch.

A 100% increase of 0 is still 0

 

[BradyFTW!]

Good job, Andy

Knowing when to quit when you are wrong and way behind is the first step.

No sense digging a deeper hole.

patsfaninpittsburgh will just assume you had your feathers ruffled because the "600 yard" comment in pfip's post must have inferred you can't do big boy math.

This is what made you miss the uber-relavent "range" in the sentence.

If you are truly interested in football, pfip really recommends that you read and study mayo's origional comment on Tate and tie the stats back to it.

I'd be curious to learn more about what you consider "big boy math". FWIW, I minored in statistics--not a big deal, I know, but it should at least qualify me to understand this big boy math that you speak of. At the very least, I do remember that pulling numbers out of your ass for no discernible reason as a hypothetical that "would have" happened was generally considered to be bad form.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Here is pfip's origional post.

Notice the bold word "range"......."range".......A benefit of a Massachusetts education is an understanding of English language words.

PATYLISCOUS...where are you?

Is that the education that taught you that 0 is in the 4-6 "range"?

 

[strngplyr]

Is this is a serious question?

If so, pfip first would warn you that fire is hot and pain hurts.

Does ol' pfip need to donn a Captain Obvious suit to re-re-explain?

Seriously, the Bengals pick up a player that was essentially a second year post traing camp...and with a rookie QB, rookie #1 receiver, ZERO offseason, WR's already on the roster and familiar with the system, you don't see why this player would be limited to return duties and then incorporated into the offense with the benefit of a full offseason?

Captain Obvious? patsfaninpittsburgh can put on Adam Seward briefs and couldn't explain or comprehend why this isn't so obvious.

A rookie with 0 off season beat out 3rd year player Tate in one of the simpler offensive schemes in the league.

Donald Lee
Andrew Hawkins
Colin Cochart
Ryan Whalen
AJ Green

Want to know one thing in common with those names? They are either rookies or just played their first season in Cincinnati's system with "ZERO offseason".

Want to know the second thing in common with them? They all produced more than Brandon Tate in their first year in Cincinnati, with no offseason program.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I'd be curious to learn more about what you consider "big boy math". FWIW, I minored in statistics--not a big deal, I know, but it should at least qualify me to understand this big boy math that you speak of. At the very least, I do remember that pulling numbers out of your ass for no discernible reason as a hypothetical that "would have" happened was generally considered to be bad form.

I guess the thousands of dollars spent to get your "minor" (how appropriate) taught you that 540 yards is galaxy wide gulf from 600 yards "range".

Yup if only education was brains.

Thanks Einstein, that's real math tutelage.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

A rookie with 0 off season beat out 3rd year player Tate in one of the simpler offensive schemes in the league.

Donald Lee
Andrew Hawkins
Colin Cochart
Ryan Whalen
AJ Green

Want to know one thing in common with those names? They are either rookies or just played their first season in Cincinnati's system with "ZERO offseason".

Want to know the second thing in common with them? They all produced more than Brandon Tate in their first year in Cincinnati, with no offseason program.

And all were picked up right at the beginning of the season right after the final cuts for 2011 season.....i.e. post traing camp.

And all were given the exclusive responsibilities for return duties by the Cincinnati Bengals.....the same duty that Devin Hester and Josh Cribbs have recently excelled.....and have showed to be difficult to mix with incorporation into the offense.

Maybe you are right. 2011 is the only predictor for the 2012 Bengals. Since Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell were receivers #2/3, tate has zero chance beating them out.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Is that the education that taught you that 0 is in the 4-6 "range"?

Ahhhhh, did you know that Tate actually caught 3 TD's passes in 2010?

Typically, there is only one possible TD pass caught per TD drive?

There was nothing in the NFL labor agreement that made prohibited Tate from catching TD passes.

 

[Kontradiction]

As a receiver, he was next to useless. But as a return man he was missed last season.