Tapegate: Something Doesn't Add Up Here, Folks

[shmessy]

1) The "cameraman" in question was wearing Patriot staff clothing and wearing Patriot credentials .

2) He was on the sidelines, not hidden away in the stadium crowd.

3) A similar situation happened last year in Green Bay with the SAME guy but the camera wasn't confiscated and investigated??????? The league didn't ban him from the sidelines for future games?????? Wouldn't the Green Bay security (and NFL personnel) have looked at what the film had on it in Green Bay??????

I don't know IF the Pats were really filming the Jets coaches' signals WHY they would do it with a guy out there in the open on the sidelines with Patriots gear and team credentials dangling from his neck????? What????? A flashing neon sign wasn't available?????

Something doesn't seem to add up here. Either:

a) BB is going to have a last laugh on the Rich Ciminis and Manginis for all the head games they pulled - - and that there is no film in that camera.

or

b) BB is a complete moron in this regard.

 

[Mooch]

Or

(c) This kind of thing goes on all the time around the league by many teams and the Pats are being singled out.

Seriously, the thing that sticks out for me is the Green Bay situation. A Packer team official, when asked about it said that (paraphrasing) "there's a code of silence" about this sort of thing.

The only reason why there would be a code of silence about cheating of this nature is that many teams do it and there's kind of a nod-wink agreement not to go running to the league about it.

I think this is the most likely scenerio here.

 

[patsox23]

Or

(c) This kind of thing goes on all the time around the league by many teams and the Pats are being singled out.

Seriously, the thing that sticks out for me is the Green Bay situation. A Packer team official, when asked about it said that (paraphrasing) "there's a code of silence" about this sort of thing.

The only reason why there would be a code of silence about cheating of this nature is that many teams do it and there's kind of a nod-wink agreement not to go running to the league about it.

I think this is the most likely scenerio here.

This is my guess, too.

 

[SaCaCh]

If you think about it, it was after blow outs we hear about it. If it is something that we always do then Mangini knew we did it, and still knows. So maybe to cover his butt after a blow out, he calls out the camera guy to divert attention away from his team and maybe even give an excuse. Maybe Green Bay did it also.

 

[BelichickFan]

Something doesn't seem to add up here. Either:

a) BB is going to have a last laugh on the Rich Ciminis and Manginis for all the head games they pulled - - and that there is no film in that camera.

or

b) BB is a complete moron in this regard.

If they got caught I suspect Belichick figures it will be a minor penalty as they're first time offenders. Accusations from the past don't count as no complaint was filed.

My post from a thread that died :

The bottom line to me is :

1) It has to be shown that we did it. Then we're guilty of a little something. This will be easily proven if we did.

2) It has to be shown that we used the tapes for competitive advantage. If so we're guilty of a fairly big something. This will be difficult to prove - they'd need the guy to admit that he signalled plays in or have him on tape doing it.

3) It has to be shown that we've done it before or it's a first time offense. Although other teams say we've done it there's no evidence of such nor any official investigations. If proven we're in trouble. This will be VERY difficult to prove.

My guesses :

If none of the above, nothing happens.
If (1) it's a slap on the wrist, a fine, maybe a Day Two pick.
If (2) it's similar to when the Broncos lost a #3 pick for cheating on the cap.
If (3) we could be looking down the barrel of losing a #1 if it's shown we've done this more than once and gained competitively. But that's very unlikely.

None of 0, 1 or 2 would shock me.

 

[shmessy]

Yes, but my question concerns the "OBVIOUSNESS" of the situation. The Pats couldn't have advertised this guy's actions any more than if they gave him his own flashing spotlight and flourescent pants.

Could BB have been baiting the Jets?

 

[cubicle_6]

Yup, either there's nothing on the tape or BB did something moronic, especially after the warnings, and facing Mangini who knows what goes on.

Mooch's option C. is irrelevant.
The only tape Goodell has is the Patriot's tape.
That's all that matters. The patriots will be made as an example for what you can expect from here on out, and there's nobody to blame but the franchise.
The Patriots HAD to know the bullseye for this type of spying was squarely on them.
If not...

 

[marty]

Or

(c) This kind of thing goes on all the time around the league by many teams and the Pats are being singled out.

Seriously, the thing that sticks out for me is the Green Bay situation. A Packer team official, when asked about it said that (paraphrasing) "there's a code of silence" about this sort of thing.

The only reason why there would be a code of silence about cheating of this nature is that many teams do it and there's kind of a nod-wink agreement not to go running to the league about it.

I think this is the most likely scenerio here.

I'll buy this, however it doesn't explain why Kraft went to the league just last year, complaining about the same practice by the Fins? Am I remembering this right?

 

[JohnVM]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this has been posted or not yet, but this is what the jets are heralding as "overwhelming proof" of the camera incident:

I do not think the pic definitively means that their accusations are true, but it does raise some suspicion at least.

Nonetheless, that guy could have been filming anything -- cheerleaders on other side of the field perhaps? I'm sure that if you filmed all of the camera men during a whole game at least at some point it would look like one of them was filming the coaches.

 

[Mooch]

Yup, either there's nothing on the tape or BB did something moronic, especially after the warnings, and facing Mangini who knows what goes on.

Mooch's option C. is irrelevant.
The only tape Goodell has is the Patriot's tape.
That's all that matters. The patriots will be made as an example for what you can expect from here on out, and there's nobody to blame but the franchise.
The Patriots HAD to know the bullseye for this type of spying was squarely on them.
If not...

If option C is the case, then yes, Belichick looks pretty naive in thinking that there would be no reprecussions for deliberately disobeying a league order. However, if the Pats truly get busted for doing this, I'd expect Belichick to open up the vault on what other teams do in the same regard, that he has previously kept to himself under the "code of silence".

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Or

(c) This kind of thing goes on all the time around the league by many teams and the Pats are being singled out.

Seriously, the thing that sticks out for me is the Green Bay situation. A Packer team official, when asked about it said that (paraphrasing) "there's a code of silence" about this sort of thing.

The only reason why there would be a code of silence about cheating of this nature is that many teams do it and there's kind of a nod-wink agreement not to go running to the league about it.

I think this is the most likely scenerio here.

I like (c).............. But given that 70-80% of the Jets staff used to be on the Patriots staff within the last year. Then it stands to reason they know the procedures and way in which we did them.

Either BB is a monumental idiot using the same guy, same way (as the packer game) approach, when he's been specifically warned not to.

Or this guy is seriously effing with Mangina. Would he have the stones to send him over with no film (which would be funny), but its more likely (know the camera would be taken). to have the guy deliberately take crowd shot (slightly over the heads of the defensive coaches, coincidentally ), or some other non-nefarious images.

Then when they get reviewed, they simply say "whaaaaaaa, just getting some general footing for our end of year DVD"

I wonder, did the JETS review the tape before sending it?

 

[true_patriot]

I wonder, did the JETS review the tape before sending it?

I don't think anybody reviewed the tape. It was sealed as soon as it was confiscated and send to NFL headquarters.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wonder, did the JETS review the tape before sending it?

According to the reports, no. They put the camera and tape together in a "sealed box" and sent them off. [In a sense, this is a smart move, as it prevents the possibility of the Pats claiming "planted" evidence. That said, here, 2 + 2 still doesn't seem to equal 4.

 

[fumbrunner]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this has been posted or not yet, but this is what the jets are heralding as "overwhelming proof" of the camera incident:

I do not think the pic definitively means that their accusations are true, but it does raise some suspicion at least.

Nonetheless, that guy could have been filming anything -- cheerleaders on other side of the field perhaps? I'm sure that if you filmed all of the camera men during a whole game at least at some point it would look like one of them was filming the coaches.

1. He is not on the Pats sideline as was stated in the report

2. he does not have the "Pats wear" that the alleged culprit had on.

This guy, in green could be a Jets staffer or someone from NFL films or something.

 

[Oswlek]

Just an extra thought on this whole thing.

Now that Detroit has thrown their hat in the ring, I believe this less than I ever did. This is a team that had a significant lead late in the game and went on to lose in the final minutes; a team that rarely wins at all, let alone against a good team on the road.

To top all of this off, their offense is led by a guy who jumped on the 2003 AFCCG bandwagon and accused NE of cheating once before, who was also depantsed in front of the world in SB36.

Why in the world did we not hear anything about this before? I can see the GB thing were they just let it slide under the rug, but can anyone really see Mike Martz just walking away from this if they caught NE red handed?

 

[bresna]

Funny how when this pic was first posted HERE on patsfans.com, it didn't have touchdown.org on it. Did touchdown.org merely steal it from here and slap their logo on there to say it was theirs or is it just advertising?

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this has been posted or not yet, but this is what the jets are heralding as "overwhelming proof" of the camera incident:

I do not think the pic definitively means that their accusations are true, but it does raise some suspicion at least.

Nonetheless, that guy could have been filming anything -- cheerleaders on other side of the field perhaps? I'm sure that if you filmed all of the camera men during a whole game at least at some point it would look like one of them was filming the coaches.

Lets look closer shall we.

1) Look at his (the cameraman's) hand (at the level of his nose or higher), which means the lens is clearly UP over the hands of the coaches. This guy is filming, judging by th distance, 2-3 feet OVER the downfield coaches heads. Clearly not at chest level. See his back too (he's leaning back, which is not how posture for a hip/chest level shot 30-35 feet away).

2) He's 5-8 feet to the rear of the coaches position. Best he can get it a side-rear view, which would ABSOLUTY give you the worst angle to actually get any hand signal details that could be of any use. Hell the CBS angle would have been perfect for getting incoming signals.

3) He's vitually off by himself begging to be noticed.

That's makes me think that;

a) If the guy is being used for the purpose's alleged, he ought to be fired for incompetance.

b) he's a total decoy.

c) this is not the guy in question and is just some random image from the game. This image makes a better case for the prosecution then the defense.

 

[shmessy]

The guy in that picture is as obvious as Bin Laden shopping for ties in Barneys.

 

[sarge]

Hey guys,

I don't know if this has been posted or not yet, but this is what the jets are heralding as "overwhelming proof" of the camera incident:

I do not think the pic definitively means that their accusations are true, but it does raise some suspicion at least.

Nonetheless, that guy could have been filming anything -- cheerleaders on other side of the field perhaps? I'm sure that if you filmed all of the camera men during a whole game at least at some point it would look like one of them was filming the coaches.

Initial reports said the guy was on the Jets sideline, but subsequent reports said the guy was on the Pats sideline.

IF this is the guy, and he is with the Patriots, this was beyond stupid.

If this is in fact the guy, you mean to tell me the Pats
1. Dressed this guy in Jets colors
2. Gave him a jumbo extra large video camera
3. Placed him not only on the Jets sideline, but directly in front of two Jet staffers, and directly behind a security gaurd???
4. And had him take side shots of the signals when they could be easily viewed from the Pats sideline providing an even better angle???

This makes absolutely no sense.

If this is the guys, and points 1-4 are true, this is just beyuond stupid, and I would be really disappointed.

But considering points 1-4 above, this at the very least can't be the guy in question.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'll tell you what doesn't add up for me.

Mangina is a former Patriot coach.
TheDoll is a former Patriot coach.

The easy response is - ha, they knew what was going on, snitched and caught us. Allright. But after the game.

If they knew what was going on they wouldn't have allowed us to "cheat" in the first place. If they knew we were stealing signals wouldn't they get the real signal in some other way ? And if they didn't and we "knew what they were doing before they did it" wouldn't they have changed their system at halftime when it was still a close game ?