T Holt or Orlando Pace for a 3rd round pick?

[BradyManny]

I'd rather see the pick used to draft a guy that will be here for the next 5+ years.

Here in lies my issue w those opposed to the existence of this thread.

Let's go back and look at some RD 3 picks. The jury is still out on 08, I think we have some good picks there.

2006 - Dave Thomas
2005 - Nick Kaczur
2004 - Gus Scott
2003 - (none)
2002 - (none)
2001 - Brock Williams

So, unfortunately not a lot of picks to work with, but the jury's out on Dave Thomas, I have hopes, but will he be re-signed? Kaczur has been a starting caliber player - but will he be re-upped at the end of his contract? Scott didn't pan out, neither did Williams.

The third round is probably 50/50 whether the guy pans out, and out of that 50%, its probably another 50/50 if he re-signs. So you simply can't plan ahead 5+ years.

I'd love to add another rookie, too. But we have plenty of picks, and if you can trade a 3rd rounder for a proven guy, its worth contemplating.

 

[Jimke]

Ditto. While I still think Gonzalez is still a beast, I don't think he fits here long term... and I have ZERO interest in Johnson. Holt, maybe for the right price.

When the Patriots put the second round tender on Pierre Woods,

they will have barely enough money to re-sign a player like

Lonnie Paxton or Heath Evans. The players mentioned in this

post will go the team that will pay them the most.

 

[brdmaverick]

Here in lies my issue w those opposed to the existence of this thread.

Let's go back and look at some RD 3 picks. The jury is still out on 08, I think we have some good picks there.

2006 - Dave Thomas
2005 - Nick Kaczur
2004 - Gus Scott
2003 - (none)
2002 - (none)
2001 - Brock Williams

So, unfortunately not a lot of picks to work with, but the jury's out on Dave Thomas, I have hopes, but will he be re-signed? Kaczur has been a starting caliber player - but will he be re-upped at the end of his contract? Scott didn't pan out, neither did Williams.

The third round is probably 50/50 whether the guy pans out, and out of that 50%, its probably another 50/50 if he re-signs. So you simply can't plan ahead 5+ years.

I'd love to add another rookie, too. But we have plenty of picks, and if you can trade a 3rd rounder for a proven guy, its worth contemplating.

You make a very good argument. I was slightly in favor of pulling the trigger on either possible deal, but after your argument, I am totally in favor.

As fans I think our judgment is clouded with all the success stories of later round picks when the reality is that it is a crapshoot.

 

[WhiskeyBreath]

Here in lies my issue w those opposed to the existence of this thread.

Let's go back and look at some RD 3 picks. The jury is still out on 08, I think we have some good picks there.

2006 - Dave Thomas
2005 - Nick Kaczur
2004 - Gus Scott
2003 - (none)
2002 - (none)
2001 - Brock Williams

So, unfortunately not a lot of picks to work with, but the jury's out on Dave Thomas, I have hopes, but will he be re-signed? Kaczur has been a starting caliber player - but will he be re-upped at the end of his contract? Scott didn't pan out, neither did Williams.

The third round is probably 50/50 whether the guy pans out, and out of that 50%, its probably another 50/50 if he re-signs. So you simply can't plan ahead 5+ years.

I'd love to add another rookie, too. But we have plenty of picks, and if you can trade a 3rd rounder for a proven guy, its worth contemplating.

Look at the players around the league who were drafted in the 3rd, not just our picks.

 

[brdmaverick]

I think in football there is less of a need to think long term than in a sport like baseball.

Some people say the NFL stands for Not For Long, and they say it for a good reason.

So if the Pats can pull the trigger on guys like Holt and Gonzalez at a modest price then I am all for it. Throw in Chad Johnson too, lol.

 

[BradyManny]

Look at the players around the league who were drafted in the 3rd, not just our picks.

If we looked around the league, then we'd probably find the success rate in the 3rd round is even less than 50%. I heard recently that 50% of all Day 1 picks are off their original team within 3 years. The Pats have a much better success rate than that, but still.

 

[brdmaverick]

3rd rounder and pay him? I think people have magnified the living crap out of Gaffney's drop against the Colts. It's tough to get a guy at his skill level to play the positions he does. That drop aside he had a good year. No one is regularly wanting to dump Moss for game changing drops...

That's a very good point.

We all harp on the drop at Indy in 2008, but we tend to forget about the AMAZING TD grab he made against the Colts in the 2006 playoffs. (remember: he lifted off from the tips of his feet, his heels were hovering above the 'out of bounds' line. he made a great catch and held on after a pretty good hit.)

 

[VJCPatriot]

Let's not forget the salaries involved here. There is a reason the Rams want to get rid of these players, and the biggest one is the $$$.

According to USAToday:

Torry Holt - 7M in 2008. With signing bonus factored in his actual cap value was 9.2M.
Orlando Pace - 5.2M in 2008. Plus if you factor in his 15M signing bonus, his actual cap value was 8.2M.
Gonzales - 1.5M in 2008. Plus when you factor in his 10M signing bonus, his actual cap value was 5M.

Check them out for yourself.
USATODAY.com

So the cost in acquiring these players is not JUST a 3rd round pick. It's a 3rd round pick PLUS accomodating their very high salaries. Would I want to pay a 3rd round pick and 7M per year for a 32 year old Torry Holt or would I want to pay no picks and that same per annum to a passrushing OLB like a Dansby or Suggs. I'd lean heavily towards the latter.

 

[Synovia]

I wouldn't mind getting a dominant LT with Brady coming off an injury. As much as we're adequate at most line positions, there's way too many times a rusher comes in almost untouched from the blind side as far as I'm concerned.

As would I, the problem is, Pace isn't dominant anymore, and he can't stay on the field. (11 games TOTAL in the last 3 seasons). Holt, I'd be all over.

 

[RayClay]

As would I, the problem is, Pace isn't dominant anymore, and he can't stay on the field. (11 games TOTAL in the last 3 seasons). Holt, I'd be all over.

I didn't know specifics which is why I just said a dominant LT.

A high priced wide receiver is so far down my list, it's off the page.

 

[Synovia]

A high priced wide receiver is so far down my list, it's off the page.

I would assume that it would be a trade-and-tear. I would think Holt would be getting a lot less than $7M a year. At this point, it looks like the Rams may cut him.

I wouldn't give up a 3rd for 1 year of the guy. It would be contingent on getting 3 years.

 

[ScottieC]

I'm really okay with Gaff as our #3.... and I love the dude's toughness and run blocking... but Holt for a 4th would be pretty tough to pass up. A 3rd... I'd rather spend on defense.

Orlando Pace? No thank you.


He was a beast, and really doesn't look to be slowing down as much as I thought he would.

I agree - I think I have just not paid much attention to KC, I mean I know that TG is a HOF'r and a great TE - But watching him yesterday you would have thought he was in his prime.

 

[satz]

This is a great trade for the rams a run down over the hill tackle and a really slow wr for a 3rd if they can get will be a steal for them.

T .Holt is done and also who is he going to replace a 27 yr old gaffney is probabily faster and a true number 3 as he plays all 3 the spots in our offence.
if wes or moss go down he is the only one we have who knows the offence to line up.He comes in running down and bubble screens with kelly washigton as a blocker. I have no idea how holt is going to learn all this and try it out for the first time in his life while loosing more than a step.

I think this site people want to see pace intheir against freeney and merriman to see if brady can be taken out again.

 

[RayClay]

I would assume that it would be a trade-and-tear. I would think Holt would be getting a lot less than $7M a year. At this point, it looks like the Rams may cut him.

I wouldn't give up a 3rd for 1 year of the guy. It would be contingent on getting 3 years.

I'm sure I disagree with many posters here that with Moss and Welker, we need a role player more than someone who expects a lot of touches.

I'd like to see us run the ball a lot more than in 2007 too. Last year was balanced. In other words, resources to receivers after LBs, DBs, OL, TE. maybe DL if we might lose someone.

Difference of opinion.

Don't mean to be a Grinch and Holt's consistent production is very impressive. Who knows, they gave us Moss and I never expected that. If the cost benefit is there, why not?

Still only one football though, knowhatimean?

 

[ScottieC]

Did you see the interview of him? He basically said he had two good years of ball left and he wanted to play for a team that had a shot in the playoffs.

I saw it, and I welcome him to NE to play for AT LEAST 2 more years - I think Bill could use him in a way that he would be very happy - Not to mention having Tom throwing to him, that's a nice little perk for a guy that every time he catches a ball he adds to an NFL record.

 

[Deus Irae]

Neither player is worth giving up a 3rd round pick for at this time.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I'm sure I disagree with many posters here that with Moss and Welker, we need a role player more than someone who expects a lot of touches.

You mean someone like... uhhh, I dunno... Gaffney?

 

[RayClay]

You mean someone like... uhhh, I dunno... Gaffney?

Seems OK by me.

 

[Deus Irae]

You mean someone like... uhhh, I dunno... Gaffney?

No, like Calvin Johnson

 

[tombonneau]

So you guys want Moss, Welker, Holt, Gonzalez and Johnson? That's ONE guy under 30.

Who cares? If it means 2 SBs in the next 3 years, what does it matter? As long as the team doesn't expose itself to cap hell in the process, it's a no brainer to acquire talent like Holt & Gonzalez that could produce for 2-3 seasons for the cost of a 2nd & 3rd.

Like others have said, Dillon cost a 2nd for one year of great production and a SB. I don't think anyone would undo that trade.

ETA: The one weakness the BB regime has shown in drafting is an inability to consistently scout the WR & TE position, esp. high in the draft. Meanwhile, they hit gold via FA & trade with Welker & Moss, why not do it again?