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Swine and my son

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by atomdomb, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. atomdomb

    atomdomb Rookie

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    I have a two year old and swine flu is all over the news. This obviously has me a little nervous and I would imagine many parents are wondering what to do. The CDC has reported the swine has killed 76 kids and that is more than normal. What do the talking heads think about the flu vaccine for children? I am trying to decide what would be best for my little guy.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    They are giving the shot at my 10 year olds school ... I think it's mandatory. I called 2 of my kids doctors and they do not know if or when they will be getting it. Sounds to me like the government will be controlling the shots. Now - for a kid not in school I guess your kid will have to wait till his doctor gets the shot.

    Sounds to me like the doctors won't be seeing it until November at the earliest. It's going out this week but like I said I think the government is handling the early doses. My son has asthma so I guess I wouldn't have a problem getting him to get it anyways. H1N1 settles deeper in the lungs than pneumonia and that is where I hear the danger is.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have discussed this before ad infinitum, can only speak for myself.. a senior citizen, not sure I will get it because I usually react to vaccines.. and not sure it is worth it to me..

    It is a difficult decision, damned if you do, damned if you don't... not sure if it is truth or hysteria.. have to think the former is more credible. Two year olds getting real sick is tough on everyone, remember one time my grandson spiked a 104 temp and he had a seizure in my arms... scared the crap out of me.. in retrospect if I could have avoided it, would have done so. Not sure it is related, but something to think about.
  4. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    All of the deaths with swine flu in children have had a corresponding neurological disorder, Cerebral Palsy and so on. So the chances aren't very great that your son unless he has one of those neurological afflictions will be susceptible. Secondly, you seem to be on top of it, this flu is no worse than any other flu. It's been around forever, so as long as your paying attention to your sons health and are vigilant at the first signs of sickness. You can do all the appropriate things to get your son back to health soon and let the virus run it's course. Lastly, this is not polio and this vaccine was cobbled together in the ninth hour, given what we already know about this illness. Introducing a young child to this strain of the flu at a young age simply isn't necessary. Just keep on keeping your eyes open.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many of the people trying to scare us into getting the shot are democrat liberals, thats enough to scare me away from it, if everybody in Congress & The White House get it (Obama Family) then I might think about it.
    It's like health care Congress wants us to use the Obama Sh!t but they aren't going to use.

    DON'T TRUST THE DIRTY BASTARDS
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    good post.

    this issue is so split, it makes my head hurt trying to find all the facts.

    I dunno what to ultimately do, but I'm leaning towards not getting the vaccine. What a world.
  7. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey


    (Doing David Byrne chop motion down the forearm) Same as it ever was.

    Plagues, disease outbreaks have happened throughout earths history and will continue evermore.

    The only difference is we now have biotechnology which can (sometimes) alter the course.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd personally try to stay away from any "mandatory" government vaccine that they created hastilly, in a few weeks time. Ultimately it's your call as a parent.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Of course that's no reason to take advantage of it, is there?

    I mean most everyone plans on dying of bubonic plague or smallpox. (

    Just one other small point. I think that being dead from swine flu makes you almost as dead as being dead from smallpox does, doesn't it? There are no degrees of death.
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    First of all, on a non-partisan note, nice pull on the David Byrne nostalgia note.

    Secondly... we've got scant data to pull from regarding deaths among children. May it remain scant data, and may this be a vast overblown preparation. From what I can glean thus far, it is about 3 times as deadly (across the board) as seasonal flu. It's not the freaking bubonic plague, from what is currently known, but it's a nasty flu as flus go.

    Thirdly, this flu has been noted early on as not leaving alone populations in the middle age cadres. Healthy young adults are getting it, and those in middle age.... that's partly due to its "novel" nature. Your first flu when you're 2 years old gets you some antibodies against similar strains. The dissimilarity of this strain to earlier strains apparently means that your partial early immunity gets you less protection.

    Fourthly, on the score of vaccine preparation: It's the same basic deal whether you're preparing the "novel" vaccine or the seasonal vaccine. For seasonal vaccines, you always look at this year's model, adjust for it, do your clinical trials, and get the vaccine to market.

    Same deal w/this swine flu vaccine. The testing schedule isn't truncated. To be perfectly non-rah-rah about it, I could see an argument where to counter a more novel flu, your vaccine may be a more dissimilar vaccine, but I doubt it. The basic technology is to take inactive flu and let your own body build the antibodies. Someone tell me if I'm wrong about this. The very fact that the shot's was not widely available in time for the first (fall) wave of this flu should tell you something -- if they were rushing to market they'd have had it available for everybody by now.

    I don't think you can characterize public health efforts as a "scare tactic." What you're looking at is a prevention effort.

    There's a calculation here that can be termed "Democratic" if you believe Republicans are selfish fu(ktards that would as soon kill you as look at you, but I believe it to be a basic civic obligation (personally,) whichever party you're in:

    Just as you try to cover your nose/mouth when you cough or sneeze, you don't want to otherwise be a disease vector for others.

    So one purpose of a vaccine is to stop the disease vectors before they happen, even in populations not especially susceptible. Make no mistake, some children WILL likely die of this flu, and I'd look very hard at claims that it has only killed those with other conditions. But maybe that's true, and maybe that will remain true even when we get a larger sampling to analyze. But there's another issue here besides one's own progeny:

    Kids in schools are hotbeds of disease (ditto commuters on buses and the subway, but that's another story.) Packing people in together is a great way to spread germs. It's a good idea therefore to stop the spread of the disease in these hubs of humans packed in together.

    So anyway: Nobody's died of the vaccine. Plenty of people have died of the flu. A large number (as would be expected) have other complications. It may even be that only people with other complications die. The other ones get really fu(king sick. If you want your kid to get really fu(king sick and maybe die, don't get the vaccine. What can I say.

    And if you have any concern about yourself, your family, or others with whom your kid, you, or your family come in contact, you can factor in the goal of limiting the spread of the disease. If only Democrats do that and you're not a Democrat, or something, just go by whether you want your kid to get really fu(king sick. Not trying to scare you, that's just what the bloody flu does, makes you really fu(king sick. Getting it and not dying is not optimal either, from the kid's point of view.

    Ultimately it's personal choice, I suppose. Where I work we have the seasonal shot being offered right now, and I am going to try to rearrange my Tuesday to fall into my little schedule slot. I'm also going to try to get my H1N1 shot when it's offered. Some people will freaking get shot at for their fellow citizens, the least I can do is get a flu shot for them (and, of course, for me.)

    Oh one more thing if you're convinced this is an "issue" and "partisan": Think about it... if everybody gets vaccinated and nobody gets sick, you can complain that it wasn't that bad a flu anyway and we just panicked!!!

    PFnV
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not. 30% of the dead children had pre-existing conditions. Which means, of course, that 70% of them did not.

    It's just one of those things that people tell themselves when they want to reassure themselves that they're exempt from ordinary things - like death.

    Truth is - no one's all that "special" to Da Reaper.


    Underscoring the threat that the H1N1 swine flu poses to children, U.S. health officials said Friday that 76 children have died from the disease since it appeared in April, including 19 in the past week alone.

    Over the last three years, deaths among children from the regular seasonal flu ranged from 46 to 88, Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during an afternoon press conference.

    "So we have already had 76 children dying from the 2009 H1N1 virus, and it's only the beginning of October," she said. "We are seeing more illness, more hospitalizations and more deaths each week from the flu. Virtually all the virus circulating right now is the H1N1 2009 virus."

    About 30 percent of the children who died had chronic medical conditions, such as asthma, cerebral palsy and muscular dystrophy, Schuchat said.


    Atlanta health, diet and fitness news | ajc.com
  12. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    The very young and the very old are always most vulnerable. This flu seems to be the most deadly for people in their early to mid twenties and younger because they haven't been exposed to as many strains of viruses. Therefore their immune systems haven't had to deal with something as virulent as H1N1.
    H1N1 is an air borne pathogen washing your hands will have little effect. If you, your wife and other kids have contact with large groups of people then it is more likely to come in contact with the virus, i don't know whether you can be a carrier and not come down with it, therfore staying away from others or wearing a mask (N95)
    Off hand two years old seems a little young for a flu shot, i don't know
    Also in discussing this with a DR last year the concensis seemed to be that this wasn't 1918 as far as the deadliness of the virus, whats going on is more preventative i.e. get everyone to get a shot that way the virus won't have a chance to spread so easily. If i had a kid that age i would certainly ask my DR.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
  13. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey


    Let me clarify. I'm not saying that the tech advances are not good. Just that the tech advances don't eradicate disease and plagues, just that it causes the bugs to mutate to somethings that do get through and around them later. It's on ongoing cat and mouse game. Scary? Yes, as a father of two, it is very scary. However, it is the same as it ever was through history. This is not completely different than previous centuries.
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    It's not flu shots or vaccinations which are causing the current crop of drug resistant diseases, it's antibiotics which are causing super-bugs. And it's not even antibiotics used properly which contributes to their growth - it's antibiotics used improperly which allow super bugs to form and florish.

    Do doctors over prescribe them? Yeah, they do. But mostly they do it because their patients demand it. People want antibiotics for everything lately.....and the truth is, they don't work on everything - and when you're taking them for nothing they have the nasty little side effect of negating your own body defenses against still other diseases. It's a viscious circle.

    Plus, even when they're prescribed properly they're seldom taken properly. One of the worst things you can do is quit taking a course of antibiotics before they're finished. Just because you feel better doesn't mean you ARE better. All you've done is kill half the offending infection - the other half continues to grow, silently for the most part, and as it grows it learns to overpower the antibiotics which are left in your system, setting you up for an infection which will now be resistant to the original antibiotic.

    That's a fairly simplistic explaination but it's close enough.
  15. resnor

    resnor Rookie

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    My wife and I have a 7 month old son. We took him in for some shots a week or two ago, and asked about the H1N1 thing. The doctor advised getting him the regular flu shot, and said that from what she had seen, it would cover him for the H1N1. She told us to not bother with the H1N1 vaccine. On a sidenote, I saw a disease specialist from Texas on the news, and he said that the way the H1N1 vaccine was put together, it was actually more dangerous than the swine flu itself. He said he wouldn't recommend kids getting the vaccine, and that he wouldn't be getting it for his kids under any circumstances.

    Like was said earlier, the information out there is so split on this subject.
  16. Run DMC

    Run DMC Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

  17. Run DMC

    Run DMC Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Good luck with that "not vaccinnating my children," stuff, Dude. Before you make up your mind for good, tho, I'd suggest you get off that "educate yourself" site and check out your local children's hospital.....ask to see a kid with Whooping Cough while you're there - or see if you can visit an old people's home and check out some of the last survivors of the polio epidemic a few decades back. Better yet, visit a school for deaf children and ask how many of them lost their hearing as a direct result of measles.

    I checked out your link, btw.

    Sorry, I have a hard time not choking on my cornflakes when I read paragraphs like these two.

    Are media whores, propagandizing on behalf of pharmaceutical companies and their whores in government, any less guilty of crippling and killing innocent people than the vaccine manufacturers themselves? Are they any less guilty than the Fort Detrick research team under Dr Jeffrey Taubenberger who went up to Alaska to retrieve DNA samples in 1997 in order to use it to map and REPLICATE the 1918 Spanish Flu virus, and THEN develop it into an even DEADLIER strain that eventually becomes part of the Swine flu vaccine ****tail?

    Every player and every cog in the Swine Flu Hysteria Propaganda Machine, are as guilty as the Illuminated Club of Rome planners who were behind this covert population reduction agenda. Having failed, apparently, to poison us sufficiently with chemtrails for the past 11 years, they now turn to direct poisoning via inoculations. The Satanic underpinning of this Death ritual is clear when you recognize that they FIRST want to poison those human groups most responsible for carrying on and continuing life itself: pregnant women, little children, and healthcare workers!


    The Great Poisoning of America Begins, October 2009 (Oct. 5, 2009)

    That's not "education," that's bullsh*t and if you can't recognize it such your children have a lot more to worry about than whooping cough and measles.
  19. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    My wife & I are still not sure what we are going to do about this issue.
    We have a 3 year old boy & a 2 year old girl.

    We already got them their regular flue shot, and my wife just found a
    link from one of her facebook friends from a doctor who said that the
    mercury in the swine shot will bring out Autism.

    Our pediatrician told us that the kids need the shot, so we will probably
    get them both the shot & keep our fingers crossed.

    There are so many conflicting stories going around, I don't know what to do.
    I have a coworker who has kept his daughter from getting some of her
    vaccination shots. I am no doctor, so I follow the guidelines the pediatricians
    have suggested. My kids have received all their shots on schedule.

    I am hoping the pediatrician knows best.
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    Cup, it's a flu shot dude. Get the shot and your chances drop of getting the flu, and pricipitously at that.

    Mossed over there thinks that all vaccines are population control strategies to kill the patient. What the hell, they're your kids.

    If you really believe that all vaccines are manufactured to kill the patient, well then it's obvious, you don't get your kids the shot. Luckily they dodged the bullet when they got the seasonal flu shot :rolleyes:

    But if you don't actually believe that kind of thing, and you want your kid not to get a pretty virulent strain of flu, get the shot.

    You know me, I'm a trusting lemming. I even let them put me to sleep for invasive surgery and trusted I'd wake up. Miracle of miracles, I did.

    Seriously, I can not emphasize enough what a simple choice this is, for yourself, for your kids, for anybody. It's a vaccine. It's not some murderous plot and it's not some horrifically unsafe experimental treatment involving an injection of plutonium into your heart. It's a bloody flu shot.

    Don't agonize. I'm telling ya dude there's a reason for all the preparations, and it's not just to "scare" people. You can't get political points out of fear of the flu. What are we going to do, invade Fluistan? There's no ulterior motive here. It's a flu shot.

    My thanks to the Mrs. for bringing in a bit of medical knowledge into the conversation. There's a reason there are 2 kinds of shots this year... if you have access, get 'em both. If you have to skip one my unprofessional opinion is skip the seasonal one. But get 'em both if you can.

    Seriously.

    PFnV

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