Suspect drafting past few years

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Yeah. One loss and it's the IN thing to do to hate on Mayo. A lot of people forget that he was the rookie of the year last season and is probably the only "game changer" type of linebacker we have in that entire corps (which of course means that the offense concentrates on taking him out of the equation). There's nothing wrong with Mayo. Give him a solid supporting cast and he'll be absolute gold. Guyton is solid, but I'm not completely sold on him as a starter.

When has he changed a game?

 

[The_Riddler]

When has he changed a game?

Wait, you want facts ?

 

[JFK]

Mayo has neither proven to be a bust nor a play maker. He is not a sacker, interceptor, force fumbler or a tackler for losses. lol

 

[muzz]

Wait, you want facts ?

LMAO

I'm laughing so hard I'm almost drooling on the keyboard!!

 

[The Intimidator]

The years they have been agressive in FA/Trades were quite good. 2003 Colvin and Rodney came on board. In 2007 it was Welker, Moss, Thomas, Stallworth. Both seasons ended in the Super Bowl.

Thomas has been horrendous and has been a full out bust, and Colvin wasn't what we thought he was going to be. I give them credit for Moss, Welker, Stallworth and Harrison. However guys like Starks, Thomas, Chad Brown, Monty Beisel, Chris Baker, Shawn Springs, Galloway, O'Neal etc.... Have sucked ca ca for us. So we have had more misses then hits in free agency. Along with the drafting woes from this team, this is why we are in this hole right now. People are wondering why this is happening!! Look at this!!! This is why!!! We aren't drafting effectively.


Chad Jackson: Out of the league.
Terrence Wheatley: Awful
Kevin O'Connell: Awful decision to draft him in the 3rd round. Produced nothing.
Shawn Crable: Wow was he great!!
Ron Brace: Why did we pick him here? He isn't a hard worker and has been a healthy scratch.
Kareem Brown: Who? He isn't in the league no more.
Marquis Hill: I shouldn't be ragging on him because he is "no longer" with us anymore. As for him being a player, was a bust.

Take a look at this and this is why things are not good right now.

Bingo!!!

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Wait, you want facts ?

Yep, and it's going to be very hard for people to come up with it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Huh? 2009: Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, Tate, McKenzie, Ohrnberger, Bussey, Ingram, Pryor, Edelman, Richard.

That's at least one solid starter (Vollmer), five solid contributors (Chung, Butler, Edelman, Ingram, Pryor), two injured guys (Tate, McKenzie), and four developmental guys (Brace, Ohrnberger, Bussey, Richard).

The only real question mark to this point is Brace. And personally, I think he'll make in impact in 2010 after this front seven is restructured.

Yes, the 2006-2008 drafting sucked. Outside of Mayo and Meriweather, it was terrible. But the 2009 drafting did not.

I addressed this topic a few months back:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...69-current-status-all-bb-era-draft-picks.html

The 2006 through 2008 drafting didn't suck..

2006: Maroney, Jackson, Thomas, Mills, Gostkowksi, O'Callaghan, Mincey, Stevenson, LeKevin Smith, Willie Andrews : 2 Starters, one of who is one of the best all around kickers in the league. They had Thomas who was a good reserve for three years. LeKevin Smith was also a good reserve. Willie Andrews was a special teams ACE until his law issues. Jackson and Mills were the only busts.. Mincey and Stevenson shouldn't be considered busts since anything outside the 4th round is really a crap shoot.

2007: This one produced Meriweather, Kareem Brown and Mike Richardson. There were 6 other picks, 4 of which couldn't be traded. One of which was Justin Rogers, who was immediately picked up off waivers by the Cowboys. Meriweather and Brown made the team out of camp and Richardson was on his way to making the team prior to his injury. Brown was cut because of the need for bodies in the secondary. Richardson was cut in 2009.

2008 : Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, Wilhite, O'Connell, Slater, Ruud. Mayo has been starting since he got to the Pats. Wilhite worked his way into the starting rotation by the end of his 1st season. He's regressed some this year, but he started off as a solid starter. Slater has been an ACE special teamer. Wheatley has regressed some, part of which is due to the addition of Bodden in the off-season. O'Connell is a bust. Crable is undecided since he can't get onto the field and stay healthy.

The Pats got a lot of good talent there. 2007 could be considered to have sucked, but people forget that the Pats hated the talent level of the draft which led to them trading 3 picks to acquire Moss and Welker and that the Pats had a FULL 61 man roster prior to the draft ever happening. So it was going to be near impossible for guys from that draft class to make the team.

I know we've got some Einstein's who think that they could have done better than BB, but they seem to falter after their first choice since that would change the entire way the draft would have turned out and no one can tell how it would have gone..

 

[Deus Irae]

Really ?

Do you have any thoughts on the following:

Chad Jackson
Terrence Wheatley
Kevin O'Connell
Shawn Crable
Ron Brace
Kareem Brown ?

Sure.....

Jackson - ACL injury as rookie. Never the same
Wheatley - became starter as rookie. Injured hand. Hasn't been the same
O'Connell - bizarre pick that I was opposed to from the start
Crable - Injuries (I found this pick curious from the start, due to his small legs, but that's just an aside)
Brace - HE'S A ROOKIE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD
Brown - 4th round pick, what's your point?

So, of all the players you just pointed to, only 1 was a high round pick that busted without having suffered a significant injury. Furthermore, you again seem to be ignoring the whole "not all picks will be successful" reality.

Again, from Casserly:

Casserly: "If you define success rate as a 'starter after four years' to give the player time to develop ... in the first round we found it was 75 percent success -- this was all positions -- second round is 50, third round was 30, fourth round was 25, fifth round was 20 and the sixth and seventh were ... we'll call it 10 percent ... I think the key to success to those rounds: having good evaluators ... Take the best player on the board. You're guessing in the first round in the first place, you're definitely guessing in the sixth and seventh. Even though you've done all this work, you still realize there's an element of chance involved..."

Casserly, Billick Talk NFL Draft -- NFL FanHouse

 

[Kontradiction]

When has he changed a game?

Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of big first downs that he prevented last year against the Jets. That game was won because our secondary messed up coverage against Dustin Keller. Last season, he finished with 100 tackles with 4 passes defensed. This season, he currently has almost 70 tackles, despite missing quite a few games, with one pass defensed and 1.5 sacks. This is all IN SPITE of the fact that opposing O-Lines are frequently trying to take him out of the equation. But yeah. What a bust he is! Let's cut his ass tomorrow!

 

[Patspsycho]

Yep, and it's going to be very hard for people to come up with it.

What you mean to say is it's going to be very hard for us to explain Mayo's value to you. There's a lot more to the defensive game than sacks or interceptions.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

The 2006 through 2008 drafting didn't suck..

2006: Maroney, Jackson, Thomas, Mills, Gostkowksi, O'Callaghan, Mincey, Stevenson, LeKevin Smith, Willie Andrews : 2 Starters, one of who is one of the best all around kickers in the league. They had Thomas who was a good reserve for three years. LeKevin Smith was also a good reserve. Willie Andrews was a special teams ACE until his law issues. Jackson and Mills were the only busts.. Mincey and Stevenson shouldn't be considered busts since anything outside the 4th round is really a crap shoot.

2007: This one produced Meriweather, Kareem Brown and Mike Richardson. There were 6 other picks, 4 of which couldn't be traded. One of which was Justin Rogers, who was immediately picked up off waivers by the Cowboys. Meriweather and Brown made the team out of camp and Richardson was on his way to making the team prior to his injury. Brown was cut because of the need for bodies in the secondary. Richardson was cut in 2009.

2008 : Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, Wilhite, O'Connell, Slater, Ruud. Mayo has been starting since he got to the Pats. Wilhite worked his way into the starting rotation by the end of his 1st season. He's regressed some this year, but he started off as a solid starter. Slater has been an ACE special teamer. Wheatley has regressed some, part of which is due to the addition of Bodden in the off-season. O'Connell is a bust. Crable is undecided since he can't get onto the field and stay healthy.

The Pats got a lot of good talent there. 2007 could be considered to have sucked, but people forget that the Pats hated the talent level of the draft which led to them trading 3 picks to acquire Moss and Welker and that the Pats had a FULL 61 man roster prior to the draft ever happening. So it was going to be near impossible for guys from that draft class to make the team.

I know we've got some Einstein's who think that they could have done better than BB, but they seem to falter after their first choice since that would change the entire way the draft would have turned out and no one can tell how it would have gone..

If you want to know the definition of insanity, it's this post right here. Just because you're starting does not mean you're good. It means you're the best at what they currently have. If the current state of the Pats doesn't hit him square in the face, nothing will.

 

[The_Riddler]

The 2006 through 2008 drafting didn't suck..
I know we've got some Einstein's who think that they could have done better than BB, but they seem to falter after their first choice since that would change the entire way the draft would have turned out and no one can tell how it would have gone..

This coming from the rocket scientist that didn't want the Pats to touch DRC with a 10-foot pole, nice call..................And you expect me to believe your opinion on the Pats successful drafts over the last 4 years. No way. You are full of so much BB hotair it's sickening ! BB's drafts have been bad and his FA signings, horrible !

 

[DaBruinz]

I wouldn't consider a high second round that is thought of as a developmental player a good pick.

Chung has been mediocre at best when he has played and is terrible in coverage.

Did you watch as the Dolphins worked their way down Butlers side of the field to score a TD. 5'10" CB's in this league are a dime a dozen.

And there are quite a few who are some of the best in the league. Not sure why you consider yourself "old" but you definitely don't have a good grasp of football.

 

[JFK]

You can't give the Pats credit for M0$$ and W3LkER. Drafting is about evaluating talent at the college level and seeing their ability to succeed at the professional level. Mo$$ and Welker had already proven they could play.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of big first downs that he prevented last year against the Jets. That game was won because our secondary messed up coverage against Dustin Keller. Last season, he finished with 100 tackles with 4 passes defensed. This season, he currently has almost 70 tackles, despite missing quite a few games, with one pass defensed and 1.5 sacks. This is all IN SPITE of the fact that opposing O-Lines are frequently trying to take him out of the equation. But yeah. What a bust he is! Let's cut his ass tomorrow!

I never said he's a bust, I just don't think he's worth the 10th overall pick. In addition, I think their scheme is holding him back.

What you mean to say is it's going to be very hard for us to explain Mayo's value to you. There's a lot more to the defensive game than sacks or interceptions.

He's not very good in coverage and rarely makes tackles behind the line of scrimmage or at least force fumbles. So for what he does, he's not worth the 10th overall pick. Again, I think their scheme just flat out sucks.

 

[DaBruinz]

The percentages are even worse as far as the Pats go.

Well, since you are such a friggin know it all, please provide the actual percentages for the Pats and then provide the percentages for each of the rest of the teams in the league. I look forward to you posting your work.

 

[Kontradiction]

I never said he's a bust, I just don't think he's worth the 10th overall pick. In addition, I think their scheme is holding him back.

So now you think that BB, the guy with just a few Super Bowl rings for his defensive acumen, is intentionally sticking with a defensive scheme that is "holding back" Jerod Mayo? Keep going bro. This is ******' rich.

 

[DaBruinz]

You can't give the Pats credit for M0$$ and W3LkER. Drafting is about evaluating talent at the college level and seeing their ability to succeed at the professional level. Mo$$ and Welker had already proven they could play.

Wow. Do you realize you provided the ammunition to prove your statement wrong and totally ill-thought?

A GOOD team that has evaluated the draft and found it to be lacking (which the Pats did in 2007, they felt that much of the 1st round talent wasn't worth a 3rd or 4th round pick) will turn around and trade picks for established veterans (Moss and Welker) and for picks in the future.

Guess you don't put too much thought into your responses, do you?

 

[Patspsycho]

If you want to know the definition of insanity, it's this post right here. If the current state of the Pats doesn't hit him square in the face, nothing will.

What's insane is you. If this were 1997 or 1998, you'd be cutting Bruschi, Willie, and Milloy for underperforming, according to your standards. They all had 5 sacks altogether for 1998.

 

[Deus Irae]

This coming from the rocket scientist that didn't want the Pats to touch DRC with a 10-foot pole, nice call..................And you expect me to believe your opinion on the Pats successful drafts over the last 4 years. No way. You are full of so much BB hotair it's sickening ! BB's drafts have been bad and his FA signings, horrible !

The next time DRC is aggressive trying to make a tackle will be the first time in his entire life. Since he's not Deion Sanders, that sort of crap is unacceptable.


Or didn't you bother watching the Super Bowl last year to see him completely exposed?