Surprise, Surprise...Asante...

[Rob0729]

The article is completely bogus.

Training camp?

Please. Asante was one of the top 10 CBs in the league.

Easily.

Was he worth $10 mill a year?

Har har har har har.

Although I agree about putting too much weight into a article about training camp, but I still think that if they want Samuel to be a press/man CB they are going to be vastly disappointed. He just isn't that type of CB. It would be like the Pats asking Wes Welker to be their deep threat or Brady to be a scrambling QB in the vein of Michael Vick or Vince Young. Most players fit certain systems and not others and I don't think Samuel fits a system where he has to play a lot of press or man-to-man coverage.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Asante Samuel is our ultimate revenge on Arlen "Igglefan" Specter.

What he said ....

 

[BradyManny]

The knock on Samuel has always been that he is not strong in man and press coverage. That is a big reason why the Patriots have eased off the press zone coverage in recent years. If the Eagles want this guy to play a lot of press or man coverage, they may be in for a big shock.

Fact of the matter is that Samuel is not a real physical CB and relies on instincts more than physicality to play the position. The Patriots realized that and revised his coverages to adjust.

Co-sign. One positive out of Samuel leaving is that it gives more flexibility schematically. While two years ago I may have been on the Asante is underrated bandwagon, I was firmly on the he's-overrated bandwagon by the end of it. The hype far exceeded his value, and so did the contract he got.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hobbs was the best DB on the Patriots last season even while playing with a torn labrum and a sports hernia that were both severe enough to require offseason surgery. I think that goes a long way towards explaining why 2 new veteran starters were signed, 2 draft picks were used on corners and Samuel was let go.

 

[Wax Frog]

Welcome to Puns 101. Anybody? Anybody?

OK, I'll bite - the Eagles could be more vulnerable to Arial offense this season.

 

[JoeSixPat]

That article looked alot like about a million posts I saw on here when he left.

I know a lot of the sports media thinks the fans are idiots, but we can be just as perceptive as them. Asante is about to join the long list of productive Pats who chased big money and ended their careers in obscurity.

Exactly - the "source" could have been anyone of us.

None of this is a knock on Asante - I think we all recognized him as the best fit for our system - but questioned whether he'd do as well in a man on man situation or other system.

Nor does any of this mean he won't grow more comfortable in the Eagles system either - but they should have known what they were "buying"... none of this should be a surprise to the Eagles or their fans.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hobbs was the best DB on the Patriots last season even while playing with a torn labrum and a sports hernia that were both severe enough to require offseason surgery. I think that goes a long way towards explaining why 2 new veteran starters were signed, 2 draft picks were used on corners and Samuel was let go.

You could play to Asante's strength's at $4.5-5M per. He is a ballhawk with very good instincts, but he also benefitted from being in a defense where coaching put players in position to make plays without paying the price (took Bill a couple of seasons to convince Ty to trust you could play the position as part of a scheme rather than freelance and still the ball would find you, or visa versa because he was going to put you where that ball was likely to go). That system only works on a team where guys buy in and adhere to discipline even when it made them look less talented. 'Sante better hope his new boys have his back and his coaches have a plan or he's gonna become a scape goat.

You just could not pay $9M+ for THAT GUY. Hobbs instincts will develop, we've already seen flashes of that. So (hopefully) will the instincts of the draftees. Asante will never develop increased athleticism. In fact in 2-3 years he will become increasingly less athletic.

 

[Deus Irae]

You could play to Asante's strength's at $4.5-5M per. He is a ballhawk with very good instincts, but he also benefitted from being in a defense where coaching put players in position to make plays without paying the price (took Bill a couple of seasons to convince Ty to trust you could play the position as part of a scheme rather than freelance and still the ball would find you, or visa versa because he was going to put you where that ball was likely to go). That system only works on a team where guys buy in and adhere to discipline even when it made them look less talented. 'Sante better hope his new boys have his back and his coaches have a plan or he's gonna become a scape goat.

You just could not pay $9M+ for THAT GUY. Hobbs instincts will develop, we've already seen flashes of that. So (hopefully) will the instincts of the draftees. Asante will never develop increased athleticism. In fact in 2-3 years he will become increasingly less athletic.

Plus, assuming the team can keep Hobbs when the time comes, and Wheatley pans out, this is going to be an extremely fast and quick secondary (well, at 3 of the 4 spots, anyway) in the near future, which will probably mean huge changes in scheme. With shorter, faster players, we'll likely see less rolling zone coverage and more man coverage with a safety protecting over the top. And, along with the expected increase in an coverage, we'll likely see more blitzing from both the linebacker AND cornerback positions.

 

[BradyManny]

You just could not pay $9M+ for THAT GUY. Hobbs instincts will develop, we've already seen flashes of that. So (hopefully) will the instincts of the draftees. Asante will never develop increased athleticism. In fact in 2-3 years he will become increasingly less athletic.

It'll be really interesting to see how Hobbs fares a) when he's completely healthy for the first time in two years b) if and when the scheme calls for more aggressive coverage, which we know he can handle and excel in.

 

[NEPatriot]

His teammates are not impressed with his 1-1 skill? Another big disappointment for a 50 min player?

 

[neuronet]

Re: Surprise, Surprise...Asante..........

This is what happens when our defense has DB's playing 8-yard cushions (even on 3rd and short).

:rocker:

The memory of my rage last season when our opponent had third and short and we'd give them 5-15 yards to do what they wanted. I just about blew a larynx.

But eventually I bought into the 'bend don't break' defense scheme. It worked really well for us, after all, until the final drive of the Giants in the freaking big game, when we forgot the 'don't break' part.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Seriously-if Sen Spector is so outraged over the Pats supposedly cheating, then why isn't he outraged over his very own Eagles signing one of their players-who SUPPOSEDLY BENEFITED from cheating??

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: Surprise, Surprise...Asante..........

:rocker:

The memory of my rage last season when our opponent had third and short and we'd give them 5-15 yards to do what they wanted. I just about blew a larynx.

But eventually I bought into the 'bend don't break' defense scheme. It worked really well for us, after all, until the final drive of the Giants in the freaking big game, when we forgot the 'don't break' part.

To be frank-I have no problem with teams playing that Zone Defense scheme. Tampa has played it brilliantly, Chicago has been very effective, as has Indy. Heck-MORE teams are now using this philosophy(including Pitt) so that it'll play to the strengths of their CBs alot more(combined with the fact that it's hard to find a blue chip CB in the draft nowdays).

However-you STILL need the PROPER personnel to help run this SCHEME. Heck-here in Dallas, Wade ran more zone defense than he really wanted, but nonetheless, a number of the personnel were too STUPID to understand zone defense.

Pt being that Zone Defense is still a challenge to learn and grasp. It's really no different than learning man-man D.

 

[blackglass3]

The Eagles would have been better off giving that money to TO back in 05.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

The article is completely bogus.

Training camp?

Please. Asante was one of the top 10 CBs in the league.

Easily.

Was he worth $10 mill a year?

Har har har har har.

Why is it bogus? How much man did Asante play (hint:not much). Different system, different expectations. Vilma was a great 4 - 3 linebackerf.

The Pats have been in playing mostly zone with the corners since Law left and there's a pretty good reason since BB has been unhappy about it. They put Hobbs into man coverage more than they do Asante. I'm not saying to take the article as gospel but I'm not surprised. Don't be surprised if Asante struggles in man.

 

[desi-patsfan]

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19751948&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8



Another league source said that he thought Sheppard and Brown are better pure 1-on-1 coverage guys, but that Samuel is the best in the game at reading a quarterback and jumping a route for the big play.

The Eagles hope to get quite a few of those big plays this fall.

I do like how you never highlighted the parts where they PRAISED his abilities.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: Surprise, Surprise...Asante..........

To be frank-I have no problem with teams playing that Zone Defense scheme. Tampa has played it brilliantly, Chicago has been very effective, as has Indy. Heck-MORE teams are now using this philosophy(including Pitt) so that it'll play to the strengths of their CBs alot more(combined with the fact that it's hard to find a blue chip CB in the draft nowdays).

However-you STILL need the PROPER personnel to help run this SCHEME. Heck-here in Dallas, Wade ran more zone defense than he really wanted, but nonetheless, a number of the personnel were too STUPID to understand zone defense.

Pt being that Zone Defense is still a challenge to learn and grasp. It's really no different than learning man-man D.

The problem with zone is that a guy like Manning or Brady will eat up a zone defense unless you play it flawlessly- see Redskins game. Even Indy doesn't play a straight zone against the Pats. They plan man in zone in the backfield.

Also, a straight Cover 2 is about the most basic defensive backfield you can play. Manning and Brady eat Cover 2 for breakfast because they know how to exploit the seams. If you don't disguise it, forget it. The two most regular season teams against the Pats (Ravens and Eagles) mixed up zone and man to man and even ran both at times. You'd better have a really good pass rush if you're going to play cover 2 or any other zone with those guys because you're not going to fool them.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Why is it bogus? How much man did Asante play (hint:not much). Different system, different expectations. Vilma was a great 4 - 3 linebackerf.

The Pats have been in playing mostly zone with the corners since Law left and there's a pretty good reason since BB has been unhappy about it. They put Hobbs into man coverage more than they do Asante. I'm not saying to take the article as gospel but I'm not surprised. Don't be surprised if Asante struggles in man.

FYI-Gary Cobb wrote the article. Unlike the rest of WIP(and pretty much the rest of the homer-based Philly media), he's been pretty much honest and objective about the Eagles.

 

[BWareofDWare]

As a Cowboys fan I have to unfortunately say that this means nothing. Wide receivers always look better until you get into full contact practices where you have a pass rush involved. Even more so when you're talking Jim Johnson's scheme.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Re: Surprise, Surprise...Asante..........

To be frank-I have no problem with teams playing that Zone Defense scheme. Tampa has played it brilliantly, Chicago has been very effective, as has Indy. Heck-MORE teams are now using this philosophy(including Pitt) so that it'll play to the strengths of their CBs alot more(combined with the fact that it's hard to find a blue chip CB in the draft nowdays).

However-you STILL need the PROPER personnel to help run this SCHEME. Heck-here in Dallas, Wade ran more zone defense than he really wanted, but nonetheless, a number of the personnel were too STUPID to understand zone defense.

Pt being that Zone Defense is still a challenge to learn and grasp. It's really no different than learning man-man D.

I have no problem with the Zone Defense scheme either... in general. However, on 3rd and short, you don't give the WRs 10+ yards of cushion. A quick pass to the WR is a sure-fire 1st down unless you have a WR with really crappy hands. There is simply not enough time for a CB that far off the WR to break on the ball for an int or even to get there in time to make the tackle short of the 1st down marker. I really hope our D does not play that way this year.