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Surprise: Rolling low shot by Steelers KO's Carson & Bengals


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DaBruinz said:
Box -
Come on. You can't have it both ways. How can you say Kimo grabbed Palmer's leg (which he did MORE than that) then claim incidental contact? That makes no sense.

I've watch the replay about 10 times. Each time its CLEAR to me that KVO makes a 2nd effort lunge and clearly hits Palmer in the knee with his shoulder. Now, he may not have INTENTIONALLY meant to hurt Palmer, but he sure as hell went low. And that is the problem that I have. Brusch makes grabs, but he doesn't dive low at the knee.

Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. The only thing that KVO had in mind was that he was going to try to hit Palmer but in a moment of complete stupidity, continued his motion to the point that he injured a player. Yes, some of these guys are massive, but they have a lot more body control that just big fat clumsy dumbasses that some people are going to try to say they are. KVO clearly used his forward motion to continue into Palmer. The hit was avoidable. In the circle of NFL players, they know what KVO did.
 
FloridaPatsFan said:
Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. The only thing that KVO had in mind was that he was going to try to hit Palmer but in a moment of complete stupidity, continued his motion to the point that he injured a player. Yes, some of these guys are massive, but they have a lot more body control that just big fat clumsy dumbasses that some people are going to try to say they are. KVO clearly used his forward motion to continue into Palmer. The hit was avoidable. In the circle of NFL players, they know what KVO did.

Bravo and well said

Whoops, I hit Palmers knee sideways and I just happened to imobilize his ankle before doing so. It was a cheapshot. Belichick was so smart in avoiding Pitt.
 
Box_O_Rocks said:
The hit that took out Rodney was no roll, it was a dive at Willie's legs, which was clipping at minimum and a chop block as I understand them, and Rodney ran into the guys flailing leg. I believe that play to have been illegal, Kimo's play wasn't.

And Shaka, as a former 120 lb. starting guard playing both ways - and the favored sparring partner for the coach's 200 lb favorite - your one devil of a better athlete then I could ever be if you can get hit by someone Vince's size and have any control of your limbs. Just ask the RB for Jacksonville who wrapped up both arms around the ball when Geno knocked it and him tail over tea kettle. :nono:

With all due respect, Box, I clearly remember that replay on Harrison. He's standing perpendicular to the line, having slowed down because it appeared the play was over, when all of a sudden, from the left-hand side of your screen, here comes some big boob rolling on the ground who seemingly had no intention of stopping until something was hit to stop him.

The resultant injury may have been unintentional, per se, but you can't say it was inadvertant.

This, apparently, is how Pittsburgh has coached it's team through the years.

Now, I am not saying they are a team of dirty players, but I will say this is one reason teams don't like to play Pittsburgh. This is compounded by the House of Torture that is Heinz Field, what with it's cement-like "turf", etc. But that's another story for another day.
 
Triumph said:
Bravo and well said

Whoops, I hit Palmers knee sideways and I just happened to imobilize his ankle before doing so. It was a cheapshot. Belichick was so smart in avoiding Pitt.

Thanks Triumph. Its definately a subject that people feel strongly about either way. I remember when we went to Pitt in 2001 with Brady nursing a sore ankle and if I remember this right, took a couple of late hits that weren't penalized until finally someone dove at his ankle. One guy doesn't make a whole team bad, but I can't help but think that the Steelers, hard hitters and all, will do this type of thing and not think twice about it. I wish someone would start a thread and detail all the top players that are injured against the steelers.
 
Funny,
No one talks about the hit the Chargers Castillo put on Ben, the hit the Bengal's Thruman put on Ben, the hit Brunell took when playing the Giants a couple weeks ago (all muuch closer to the line of being dirty), and all the similar hits delivered by Bruschi and Harrison are rationalized.
What a shocka!
 
What if the Steelers have to play the Broncos in the AFC Championship game?

The Bronco's O-line is infamous for chop blocks, so maybe they might put each other out.

Seriously, how many guys did we lose in the Pittsburg game? Rodney, Koppen, who else? But the way Kitna was throwing on them, I don't think that they have much of a chance against Indy. (Unless, of course, someone rolls up (Uninentionatley, of course) on Peyton's leg.
 
ClosingTime said:
Funny,
No one talks about the hit the Chargers Castillo put on Ben, the hit the Bengal's Thruman put on Ben, the hit Brunell took when playing the Giants a couple weeks ago (all muuch closer to the line of being dirty), and all the similar hits delivered by Bruschi and Harrison are rationalized.
What a shocka!
Selective memory. Several of us were on the 'dirty play bandwagon' in regards to the hit Ben took in the Charger game. And I can't remember seeing Bruschi or Harrison make a hit like Castillo or Von Oelhoffen. Grab, yes.. hit no.. hit and roll with the shoulder, no.
 
Triumph said:
Bravo and well said

Whoops, I hit Palmers knee sideways and I just happened to imobilize his ankle before doing so. It was a cheapshot. Belichick was so smart in avoiding Pitt.

That's what I saw; KVO wrapped up the lower leg as his shoulder moved toward the knee above. It was NOT purely momentum from the "trip."

I cannot comment on motive, but the result is proof unto itself.

KVO appeared remorseful after the fact, but football is a brutal game, with a fine line between busting a play and busting up a player, and KVO did the latter.
 
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Just because he was remorseful doesn't make it a legal hit. The ball was gone and he hit him in the knee!

It will be interesting to see how the league rules on this.
 
T-ShirtDynasty said:
Selective memory. Several of us were on the 'dirty play bandwagon' in regards to the hit Ben took in the Charger game.
I posted about it, and everyone told me I was wrong. -_-
 
Patriotic Fervor said:
With all due respect, Box, I clearly remember that replay on Harrison. He's standing perpendicular to the line, having slowed down because it appeared the play was over, when all of a sudden, from the left-hand side of your screen, here comes some big boob rolling on the ground who seemingly had no intention of stopping until something was hit to stop him.

The resultant injury may have been unintentional, per se, but you can't say it was inadvertant.

This, apparently, is how Pittsburgh has coached it's team through the years.

Now, I am not saying they are a team of dirty players, but I will say this is one reason teams don't like to play Pittsburgh. This is compounded by the House of Torture that is Heinz Field, what with it's cement-like "turf", etc. But that's another story for another day.
Fervor,

Thank you for the respect, my perspective on the Rodney play is different from yours because I am watching it on Tivo as I type this - I am forced to rely on memory often, but this game is still on the DVR.

At regular speed and slow motion the Steeler WR flies into the frame apparently aiming to hit Willie below the knees from behind - Rodney is moving laterally to line up over any crease the runner may find and collides with the cheapshot swine's leg. Rodney wasn't his target, Willie was.

Watching again, I remain convinced this was an illegal block, but there were no follow-up stories indicating a league fine that I can recall so I don't know for certain. The swine does start to roll on his side as he goes down by Willie's leg, but I see that as a protective curl to avoid hurting his own sorry *****.

Pittsburgh is a very physical football team, so are the Patriots. I am biased in my views on the Pats, so I try to be cautious about branding another team or player in anyway. I have seen Rodney take hits out of bounds when he should have known better. I presume he's taking the opportunity to advertise and is willing to take the penalty/fine it may incur. I consider him a nasty player, his peers consider him dirty - so be it.

We can disagree about Kimo's motives, tactics, athleticism - it's no skin of my nose - we all have one or two eyes and numerous replays on ESPN and Co. to look at. I am not telling you or Db, nor anyone else what you should believe, I am telling you what I believe and why, just to voice an opinion and make it a discussion instead of a lynch mob rant. Hopefully, a partisan but reasoned exchange of views will motivate one or more of our lurking reporters to press the league for explanations. We don't have to sit on the Competition Committee to Criminalize Patriot Tactics to have some influence on what actions the league should be considering.

Now, if Denver's swine RG attempts another chop block on Ty this weekend, I hope he gets a knee to the side of the helmet and contemplates his crime counting stars on the sidelines. I've got that on tape around here somewhere too. I'm going to have to breakdown and by a DVD recorder to reduce storage volume on the shelves - sigh.
 
ClosingTime said:
Funny,
No one talks about the hit the Chargers Castillo put on Ben, the hit the Bengal's Thruman put on Ben, the hit Brunell took when playing the Giants a couple weeks ago (all muuch closer to the line of being dirty), and all the similar hits delivered by Bruschi and Harrison are rationalized.
What a shocka!

The Squeeler fan thinks he's struck a point. However, let me fill you in.

I though Castillo's hit was dirty and said so when watching the game. I didn't see the hit that Thurmans laid on Ben. Nor did I see the hit that Brunell took.

However, you are a liar when it comes to saying that Bruschi and Harrison make similar hits. Sorry. They don't. Bruschi and Harrison don't INTENTIONALLY aim for a guy's knee the way KVO did.
 
T-ShirtDynasty said:
Selective memory. Several of us were on the 'dirty play bandwagon' in regards to the hit Ben took in the Charger game. And I can't remember seeing Bruschi or Harrison make a hit like Castillo or Von Oelhoffen. Grab, yes.. hit no.. hit and roll with the shoulder, no.
Castillo's hit wasn't dirty. Neither were the others. Cincy players don't think it was dirty, Cincy coaches and fans don't think it's dirty. All the analysts say it was clean. unfortuanted but clean.
Guess what, 300 lbs guys moving forward and being thrown to the ground can't stop physics, even in slow motion, even with Tivo. In all those plays, and yes similar ones that have involved the Pats and every other team in the league, guys are trying to get to the QB and lose their balance. And yes as they go down they are still trying to make a tackle, yes at the knees if necessary. And Bruschi as certainly grabbed at a guys knee. It's either rose-colored glasses or the Sox game on the other channel if you haven't seen it numerous times.
Anyways, you all have your fun with your little slow motion debate.
DaBruinz, were you dropped on your freakin head?
No surpirse you missed all those other games considering your opinions on football. Watch a little more and learn kid before you make more of an ass out of yourself.
 
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ClosingTime said:
Castillo's hit wasn't dirty. Neither were the others.
It's debatable. The point was your claim that "No one talks about the hit the Chargers Castillo put on Ben, the hit the Bengal's Thruman put on Ben" was wrong, we talked the hell out of it at the time. Face it, you were just looking for any opportunity to squeeze in a dig on Harrison. :)

ClosingTime said:
Cincy players don't think it was dirty, Cincy coaches and fans don't think it's dirty.
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica] Lewis isn't a dummie, he knows he can't do anything about it, but clearly sounds a little frustrated....[/font] [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]"Guys, gee whiz, the guy got hurt, forget it, let it go. Nothing you can do, you're not going to get it back. (You're) going to sit there baby and cry like their quarterback ([/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Roethlisberger)[/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]? It's ridiculous. The guy got hurt." [/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Intent is what's being debated, and it's pretty difficult in this kind of situation to prove intent.[/font]

ClosingTime said:
And Bruschi as certainly grabbed at a guys knee. It's either rose-colored glasses or the Sox game on the other channel if you haven't seen it numerous times.
'Course he has, that's what I just said. And I hate the Sox, maybe not as much as you hate us. :D
 
Lewis' frustration, as I understand it, was from being asked the same question 20 times and finally producing that result, which was a bit childish for a head coach by the way.
But let's not get into a debate on Lewis' intent.
As for Castillo, I don't see why if Steelers players, coaches and fans don't think Castillo's hit was dirty, why you find it "debatable". It's just part of the game. You say I have selective memory? Certainly there wasn't anything close to this sort of uproar over the Castillo or Thurman hit, nor the hit to Brunell. It just so happened that in this case it came on national television at the hands of a team that you all despise. That's not a good reason. The other reason this is getting blown out of proportion is that Palmer is the NFL's new poster boy. Again, not a good reason.
Obviously there was some confusion, so let me clarify. Bruschi and others on the Pats, as well as players on every other team, have made essentially the exact same play. Again, it happens all the time with guys falling at the feet of the QB. As I say of my dating habits, don't hate the playa, hate the game.
BTW, just a little fact that will probably piss you off more: I'm a big Red Sox fan.
 
Neither do any other players, coaches or analysts. But hey, what do those guys know compared to the guys on this board.
 
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ClosingTime said:
As for Castillo, I don't see why if Steelers players, coaches and fans don't think Castillo's hit was dirty, why you find it "debatable". It's just part of the game.
Yeah, it's part of the game, but it's debatable because one can never be sure what the intent is in the mind of the player, all we have to go on is what we see. Hence, we debated the hell out of that hit when it happened.
ClosingTime said:
You say I have selective memory? Certainly there wasn't anything close to this sort of uproar over the Castillo or Thurman hit, nor the hit to Brunell.
I remember a heated debate at the time... of course that was regular season, with a lot to talk about at the time, and now the playoffs are here, there are only 8 teams left, hence less to talk about. :rolleyes:

I honestly don't remember the Brunell hit.
ClosingTime said:
BTW, just a little fact that will probably piss you off more: I'm a big Red Sox fan.
:rofl: In order to be pissed off more, I'd have to be pissed off in the first place, and anyway, why in the world would that piss me off? I'm a sports fan and you obviously enjoy sports as well as soap operas featuring overpaid prima donnas (baseball in general, not just the Sox). Different strokes for different folks. No biggie.

huskeralk said:
You can all relax now. Even Palmer doesn't think he did it on purpose.
Of course not, everybody knows that only Rodney Harrison is dastardly enough to do something like that! :rolleyes:
 
ClosingTime said:
Neither do any other players, coaches or analysts. But hey, what do those guys know compared to the guys on this board.

Ah, don't sweat it. As Patriots fans, we're required to hate the Steelers. Not sure why yet but we are. I seriously doubt half of them even believe what they're saying. They'll never tell you that though.
 
Nice post, Box. If you've the TiVo, then you've doubtless got the answers. I'm replaying this from memory, and maybe it ain't what it used to be....but we won't go there today!

I'm considering the DVD recorder option myself. This is a thoroughly wired house, and perhaps with a little persuasion, and a little charm (!) I can convince the missus that this newest gadget is a MUST!!! I used to tape all the Pats games (I have tapes from '95!), but stopped it after we moved. We have TVs in every room, and most of our multimedia is DVD based now. I'm trying to hook up an old VCR to my All-In-Wonder card on this PC, but haven't gotten it to work yet.

Durn....

Thanks again for the enlightening post!
 
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