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Surprise: Rolling low shot by Steelers KO's Carson & Bengals

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by groundgame, Jan 8, 2006.

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  1. groundgame

    groundgame Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Probable Page 1 of The Steelers Defensive Team Manual:
    "...When at all possible, a hit to the opposing quarterback should be at or below the knees. (See series of photos of Joey Porter low blows to Tom Brady circa 2002). Furthermore, we strongly prefer that your killshot should start with a rolling motion into the QB's ankle area (please see series of photos of this procedure by the master, NY Jet's Kevin Mawae) and with a continuation of your weight pressing upward to the knee area until you hear the crunching of bone and ligaments...". ..."Afterward, it would be more effective if you look sad and surprised when the player is carted off the field..."
     
  2. bobgeorge

    bobgeorge Moderator

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    Agreed, except substitute "Lee Flowers" for "Joey Porter".

    Bob G
     
  3. PatsWorldChamps

    PatsWorldChamps Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    you guys are nuts... he was getting off a block, and tried to get to the qb... if it was seymour, you'd be talking different... it was a clean play
     
  4. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree, people tend to overreact when it's a team that they hate. I don't even understand the hatred really, we pretty much own them. If you saw the look on the guy's face after the play, you could tell that it wasn't intentional.
     
  5. ClosingTime

    ClosingTime On the Game Day Roster

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    Funny you even f up your satire. Maybe you, like many others, only became a Pats fan after they started winning.
    Those type of hit's happen all the time. Did ou see the Giants-Skins game a couple weeks abo? Big men, driving hard toward a QB lose their balance all the time> Geez, watch some games.
     
  6. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Agreed. You can tell he was upset when he realized he hurt Palmer.
     
  7. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Practice Squad Player

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    #12 Jersey

  8. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    Rolling should be illegal

    I think Groundgame makes a good point! I have posted before that it should be illegal to roll in football! (I know they would need to word it differently than I just did.)

    Can all these pro athletes really be so uncoordinated that when they get blocked or pushed over they have to roll for 8 feet before they can get oriented? In my more athletic days, you could trip me, push me over from any direction, and I'd never go rolling like a bowling ball the way some of the NFL's dangerous big men do. Dang, all you have to do is put out an arm and a leg and you'll stop.

    Incidentally, the Patriots seem good about NOT doing this to other teams' players.
     
  9. BradyisGod

    BradyisGod Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Yes, but the person that tripped you. Were they 350 pounds, and their sole job was to learn how to push people around? This isn't the god darn playground we are talking about. These are large men whose sole focus is to learn and be able to push, block, and be stronger than other people. When a person like that knocks you down, you're going to roll for a little bit.

    Secondly, in terms of physics, it's much harder to slow down a large person than a small one. You may have been able to stop yourself, but a larger person would have more trouble.

    I think it sucks, what happened to Palmer, but this is bordering on ridiculous. If you watch it in REAL TIME, not the slowed up version they give you, he was heading to the ground and Palmer still has the ball.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2006
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, KVO was heading to the ground and Palmer had the ball. However, why are you stopping there. Palmer was in the middle of throwing his pass and KVO made a second effort LUNGE at Palmer's knee. That is what the replay CLEARLY shows.

    KVO wasn't clapping in disgust over having hurt Palmer. He was clapping because he thought he'd gotten to Palmer before Palmer had thrown the ball and was upset that Henry had caught it.

    Sorry, but neither YOU nor NEM can convince me otherwise. That is what the replays have shown time and again.
     
  11. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    "Yes, but the person that tripped you. Were they 350 pounds, and their sole job was to learn how to push people around? This isn't the god darn playground we are talking about. These are large men whose sole focus is to learn and be able to push, block, and be stronger than other people. When a person like that knocks you down, you're going to roll for a little bit."

    Not true! Round objects roll. Flat objects don't. Wilfork could hit me at 20 mph, and while I was flying through the air, before I even touched the ground, I could use an arm and a leg to make myself non-round.

    "Secondly, in terms of physics, it's much harder to slow down a large person than a small one. You may have been able to stop yourself, but a larger person would have more trouble."

    But these large people are much stronger than me. Not just in absolute terms, but proportionally too. Anyone who rolls as much as the players I'm talking about, rolls because they're not trying NOT to roll.
     
  12. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The "Pittsburgh Roll", as it should be known, is what did in Rodney Harrison earlier this season.

    Yes, the Competition Committee should look into this in the off-season, but unless the main impetus comes from Bill Polian, nothing will happen.
     
  13. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'll cast my vote for incidental contact. Yep, Kimo grabbed his leg when he fell into him - Bruschi does that too, when he tries to make a tackle after getting knocked down. I've watched the replays and that wasn't an intentional effort to cripple.
     
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The hit that took out Rodney was no roll, it was a dive at Willie's legs, which was clipping at minimum and a chop block as I understand them, and Rodney ran into the guys flailing leg. I believe that play to have been illegal, Kimo's play wasn't.

    And Shaka, as a former 120 lb. starting guard playing both ways - and the favored sparring partner for the coach's 200 lb favorite - your one devil of a better athlete then I could ever be if you can get hit by someone Vince's size and have any control of your limbs. Just ask the RB for Jacksonville who wrapped up both arms around the ball when Geno knocked it and him tail over tea kettle. :nono:
     
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree Box, and so does Marvin Lewis which tells me he's a pretty good coach. Not a Nancy Kerrrigan whiner like so many of these coaches. It's a tough physical game when played correctly, and sh*t happens.
     
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Box -
    Come on. You can't have it both ways. How can you say Kimo grabbed Palmer's leg (which he did MORE than that) then claim incidental contact? That makes no sense.

    I've watch the replay about 10 times. Each time its CLEAR to me that KVO makes a 2nd effort lunge and clearly hits Palmer in the knee with his shoulder. Now, he may not have INTENTIONALLY meant to hurt Palmer, but he sure as hell went low. And that is the problem that I have. Brusch makes grabs, but he doesn't dive low at the knee.
     
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    True, that creates a confusing presentation, but they are not mutually contradictory as I observed the play - and I'd say ten times is about right for how often I've watched it. Kimo was fighting forward and was tripped/knocked down which incidentally caused him to strike Palmer in the side of the leg. He also is a DT and a pretty good one, just like I would expect from our guys (and we've both seen them do it), he reached for the QB's leg to try and pull him down - TBC twisted down Frerotte the other day that way. The grab was a normal reaction for someone doing that job, the blow to the knee was incidental.

    I hate to see Palmer or any player injured like that - Ekuban from Denver smacked in the groin is cool, he deserves that - but someone who gets more then the wind knocked out of them or a good bruising, I hate that. I'll cry foul as fast as anyone here, but I'll also go to the tape and try and understand the action, this wasn't a 'dirty' play like the snake RG of Denver chopping at Warren's knees while the RT had him high. It wasn't even a nasty play like Mankins tossing Miami's MLB aside. It was a sh!t happens situation, from big strong bodies smacking each other around for our entertainment.

    We can agree to see it differently, but our guys get called out by rival fans too. I'm going to try and be objective as I can when I'm watching. In this case, it wasn't the scum sucking Raiders or Jack 'rectum' Tatum, so I had no dog in the fight.
     
  18. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    But the guys who hurt Rodney and who hurt Palmer weren't hit anything like Geno-hit! They were just lazy rolling.

    Geno's was awesome, too. The guy wrapped both arms around the ball Czonka-style, and still coughed it up. I wonder if he briefly lost consciousness a la Ted Washington in Indy '03?
     
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I expect it was more of a stun to his whole body, like when you fall flat on your back. Your not really hurt or knocked out, but you can't control your limbs for a moment.

    As for the clown who got Rodney, it wasn't a roll, he dived at Willie's legs in what I'm sure was an illegal block of some sort and Rodney collided with his flailing legs. It was a case of both traveling side ways and meeting.

    Kimo was falling, it looked like he lost a leverage battle with the tackle and was pushed down to take him out of the play. I see our guys do that all the time, remember Wilfork always being on the ground during the first half of the season? I just don't see that he did anything deliberately to cause harm to Palmer's legs, he would have happily twisted Palmer down for a sack as I mentioned TBC doing against Miami, but I just don't see the malice in the blow to the knee. Those guys are knocking each other around pretty good, and when someone loses the leverage/balance battle he's gone so fast it looks like magic. What does happen when the immovable object is beaten by the irresistible force?
     
  20. Pisa

    Pisa Rookie

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    That injury ruined the game for me

    Those are two closely matched teams. I'm not a fan of either but I was looking forward to a good contest. When Palmer went down, the air went out of my balloon. I suspect the same feeling even went through some Steeler fans.

    It reminded me of Rodney Harrison driving his knee into Trent Green's knee in 99 which resulted in a very similar injury. Only the guy doing the hitting knows what his intententions were. When the injured player is somone you root for, it's a lot easier to find evil intentions.

    I hope Palmer makes a complete and rapid recovery.
     
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