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Support Our Troops: They want to come home

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's your chance, righties, to prove you really support our troops. Join the liberals and Democrats who want to see the U.S. leave Iraq. C'mon, righties, do you support our troops or is it what we suspected all along, that you bend over to help make Bush look good.

    http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

    * Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are neededâ€
    * While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy
    * Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown
    * Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks
    * Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation
    * Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment

    An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and nearly one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.
  2. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    :rocker: http://www.iavapac.org

    Times up neo-cons. Get your "plan" together and let us know what you "plan" on doing next. You have such great ideas. I'm sure you've planned long and hard about what to do if Iraq does break out in civil war. In one week, we've had reportedly 1300+ men women and children killed while you provide your "security plan", so if you still support this misadventure i nation building its time to come out and say so.

    Lets hear it.
  3. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Translation !

    Now, does this mean that our troops are not supporting our troops?
    It would appear so, since that was the attack tactic utilized ny neo-cons.
    How Un-American of our troops, they should all be sent back to wherever they came from, isn't that right, PFIEL?
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I would bring them home, I would have a while ago. But, honestly, I'm really not interested in a poll of the troops. Their job is to do what the Commander in Chief tells them to do. That's what they chose to do.
  5. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    No it couldn't be that they have seen things over there that might contradict your looney left wing websites.
  6. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see how you see this as supporting your view point. 1 out of 4 isn't exactly an overwhelming majority. Especially considering the majority of the soldiers that stated that were National Guard and reservists (according to the information on that page) who had there civilian lives disrupted to go into Iraq. 72 percent support being out of there by the years end isn't a news flash either that has been the target date for some time now to get a fully operational Iraqi army, not withdrawel but a draw down time frame. I guess if it makes you feel better go ahead and enjoy it.

    I will even leave alone the fact that only 944 military service members were interviewed that is roughly .007 percent of the troops serving in country.
  7. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    Don't you mean "support our war ciminals"?
  8. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    I guess they'll be a little bit pissed to find out that they're not leaving this year or next, or the year after that, or the one after that. I mean, they'll rotate out, sure, but with enlistment in the tank and nobody with the political sack to call on a draft, they'll be back again and again for two three four tours.

    Or, is the permanent base, in Balad for example, just a figment of the curious minds collective "liberal" imagination?

    And mgcolby, as is typical for scientific polls, they do mention the error rate.

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2006
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I'll go WAY out on a limb and say these numbers get higher as the end of the year closes in and the ones still over there are polled again. I don't think the chimp's monkeygrinders have an adequate reserve of recruits or guardsmen who haven't been there yet to sustain morale for much longer. Unfortunately, it could get much worse for our troops when the civil war sh-tstorm hits and the number of those wanting out immediately creeps up to 30%.

    Never mind the danger they're in, how'd you like to be a part of a force where every fourth guy wants out NOW? And the other three want out in 9 months, and you all know it's gonna go on for another three years minimum. The Iraqi "defense forces" :eek: are nowhere near ready and will splinter quickly when they realize they better choose one militia or another or get killed!

    What a cluster f-ck!
  10. bmf31c

    bmf31c Rookie

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    This same article was in the Stars and Stripes today:

    http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?article=35385&section=104

    I do believe that the poll numbers can be skewed dependent on what type of unit you are polling. A National Guard water purification unit that has to pull base camp guard is going to have a different opinion than a Infantry unit doing cordon and search.
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Iraq situation is morphing into another Viet Nam situation, looks like it more and more like it every day.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    From the article:
    ...While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,†77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.â€

    What role did Saddam have in 9/11? When was AQ and Saddam in Iraq at the same time?

    WTF! I can't believe that there are still people in the world who believe that and can read and speak.
  13. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I saw the error rate. I just think 944 soldiers is low. Especially if they only selected soldiers from a few units. A lot of different things effect morale, a couple of units could have a sh!tty chain of command, one platoon could have a bad platoon seargent or a bad first seargent so to me 944 is quite low. Just my opinion and based on my personal experiences 1 out of 4 seems a little high. But to be shocked that the soldiers want to be out of there by the years end seems a little off, No matter how much a soldier supports a mission or a war in another country it doesn't mean they want to be there.

    The only other problem I had with it was it didn't actually tell you how the questions were asked or what the actual question was.
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The fact that our soldiers believe that Saddam has a connection to 9/11 means they are either ignorant or have been misled. It's obvious that the latter is the case. Our leaders are lying and deceiving our soldiers, making them look like jackasses. Everyone (except our troops) now knows there's no connection between Saddam and 9/11. mgcolby and bmf31c, do you believe there's a connection? If not, how do you explain the fact that soldiers in Iraq believe there's a connection other than to attribute it to American military propaganda?

    Also, while you question the methodology of the poll, it's only one piece of evidence. There have been plenty of articles about the military having trouble recruiting, about morale problems, about Iraq spiraling towards civil war, etc. All this would tend to support the belief that our troops are starting to have misgivings, despite the military's propaganda efforts. Soldiers are thinking for themselves!
  15. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    That has been the goal of the Democrats and the terrorists all along. They have worked together hand in hand, in the only way to defeat the American military, which is to erode them from home. Never could they defeat them on the battlefield. Same as in Vietnam, and our enimies have engaged in the same tactics as the VietCong, and have found the same "useful idiots" to further their cause. Why aren't the same things happening in Afghanistan? WHy don't we hear anything about Afghanistan? WHy? because the terrorists and their allies the democrats are focusing on Iraq. Congradulations!, you must be so proud! Here's an idea why don't you post with glee everytime and American soilder dies. Oh, wait Mikey already does that.
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The connection between Saddam and 9/11:

    Saddam is a "Muslim Terrorist" America was attacked by "Muslim Terrorists"

    When Saddam heard the news (9/11) he stepped out onto the balcony of his Palace (torture chamber) and fired his gun in the air and screamed "Praise
    Allah". The photos of this were shown in America the next day, God only knows why the "Media Scum" won't show them again, but of course they don't even want us to see the picures of 9/11 again, they still want us to keep focused on the pictures of the "Muslim Murderer" with ladies underwear on his head, the NY Times loves that picture, Maureen Dowd has one on her piano.
  17. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see how they could have been misled because during the 3 years I was at the pentagon and 2 1/2 of them were after 9/11 only during the first initial days was when officials explored Iraq's involvement. At the same time they realized that is was most likely Bin Laden, once it was established that Bin Laden did this then they looked to see if they had help from Iraq. Never once did anyone say that Saddam had direct or indirect responsibility for 9-11. I can't answer why people believe what they do. It brings me back to wondering what the question was and how it was presented to the troops. For example

    Do you believe the US invasion of Iraq was a direct response to Saddam's involvement on 9-11? If they answered yes to this then they are ignorant!

    Do you believe that the US invasion of Iraq was a continuation of the war on terrorism after the 9-11 attacks? If they answered yes then they would be correct and that same company could skew the numbers.

    But the questions weren't listed neither were the units that were questioned or even the context of the questions. Did they keep track of how many denied to participate? They sure did a great job of telling you what the percentage of soldiers think this, but they definitly kept the process explanation out.

    The military is having trouble recruiting NEW recruites, not re-enlistment in fact re-enlistments are up. Is it any wonder why new recruitment levels are down? A war which would turn away some just looking to repay loans and an "unjust" war mentality displayed by every news program in the US. Morale problems are coming from a military over extended and that can be attributed to sustaining two theatres of war along with the other major commitments by US Troops around the world and the major force reduction in the 90's. What military propaganda efforts and how would you know if it was or wasn't propaganda, because a small group of disgruntled soldiers said so? Soldiers have always thought for themselves, we are not f*cking robots who have mind control chips attached to us (even if TGIACG thinks so)! That statement is an insult to every soldier in uniform!
  18. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    A few observations are in order here, the first being that mgcolby is accurate in his observations, IMO.

    Stars & Stipes is not known for its world class journalists, if ya catch my drift. There is too much that is not known about how that poll was conducted for me to take it seriously. I don't trust most polls -- more specifically, I don't trust the reporting of most polls, since those reports are usually just the interpretation of the polls. Left unreported in the vast majority of cases are the poll questions themselves (in order) and the demographics of those polled. In this case, things such as unit, rank and gender of individual respondants would have been helpful.

    Regarding morale, it's not nearly as down as some left-leaning people here think it is. Military goals for first-time enlistments are not being met, but that's not an indication of morale, it's more of an indication of public perceptions about the military. It doesn't help that many liberals "support our troops" by not allowing military recruiters on their local high school or college campus. Another aspect about that is that not only do we have to maintain a military during a time of conflict and military commitment (notice how I didn't use the word "war"), but we actually have to get more recruits that we would otherwise have to because of the Clinton drawdown, which left the military substantially reduced in size.

    What IS a more accurate reflection of morale is re-enlistment rates, which are at all-time highs.

    Observations by liberals on this thread are simply wrong. Iraq is not turning into Viet Nam, and there is not a civil war there (and it isn't "spiraling" toward one, either).

    Patters, soldiers do think for themselves, which is bad news for liberals. Why? Because they are there, they see what's happening, they see the dichotomy between what they see and what is reported in most media, and they see and hear what libs are saying back in the states, and the conclusion they come to is that most of you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about (and that's being generous).

    Finally, while there was no direct link between Saddam and 9/11, there were indirect links via al Queda. The training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad complete with airliner fuselage, Baghdad medical support for al Queda terrorists, etc. Faced with the choice of believing liberals when they say there were no links whatsoever or believing their own eyes, soldiers who think for themselves conclude liberals are full of it.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2006
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    C'mon mgcolby, that's not what I meant. Everyone thinks for themselves, but normally we take a lot for granted. I think that soldiers took for granted that their leaders were doing the right thing and giving them honest information, but now they are starting to reevaluate that. Now they are starting to think for themselves. To make it clear: I took for granted that Clinton did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky because I trusted him and didn't trust his opponents. Eventually, as more evidence came down, I started to think about the issue for myself.
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So you're saying that there are signiciant links between Saddam and 9/11, and that the 25% of soldiers who don't believe that are full of it?

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