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Supplemental draft


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Re: Supplemental draft.

We have

1 (SF)
1
2
3 (OAK)
3
4
5
6
7

next year right?

If we use a third which one do we give up? Our own? And what if a team doesn't have a pick in the particular round, are they automatically bypassed?


It would be BBs call. I don't know who else has traded their third-round picks, but let's say that everybody except Oakland has their original pick. If I understand the process correctly, if he bid Our original pick, that would put us #27 priority. In other words, If none of the 26 teams ahead of us bid a third round pick, we would be awarded the player.

If we bid Oakland's pick, that would give us the #20 priority, leapfrogging the Jets, Chiefs, Cowboys, Saints, Seahawks, Giants and Eagles.

Then balance the fact of where the Raiders pick is likely to be next year vs. the Patriots. It could easily be the #65 pick vs. the #96 pick. And so Belichick would have to decide whether leapfrogging those seven teams would be worth a potential 32 draft places. My guess is no, and that unless he thinks Oliver is truly a special player he'll bid the Patriots pick.

Now, knowing this, why not bid out the second rounder instead? The difference between the Patriots second rounder in 2008 and the Raiders third rounder could easily be 1 pick. Probably less than 10, so the value per pick bid would be much greater. To use round numbers, let's say the Patriots are drafting #30 and the Raiders #5. If the Patriots successfully bid their own third rounder, they'd be left with draft picks #12 (49ers), #30, #62, #69. If the Patriots successfully bid the Raiders third rounder, they would be left with #12, #30, #62, #94 with a slightly improved chance of getting Oliver. If they bid their second pick, they would be left with #12, #30, #69, #94, with a much, much greater probability of landing Oliver.

Note that this exercise is done with the assumption that within the three tiers, teams are slotted by inverse record from 2006. It is possible there is a random lottery process to slot them instead. If so, there's no benefit to bidding the Raiders pick.

The Raiders cannot bid a third rounder unless they trade for one between now and then.
 
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Re: Supplemental draft.



Ah, and that article finally clarifies how/when the exact order is determined within each tier - by random drawing on the morning of the draft. That makes for some interesting strategy. If, say, the Pats end up drafting first in their tier, probably a fair bit higher than their eventual 2008 position, that makes the supp draft a little more attractive. And vice versa with using the Oakland pick.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

http://www.bobcatfans.com/pow.php?id=30
Mark Washington is this weeks, BobcatFans.com Football Player of the Week

Washington was moved from defensive end to the tackle position against the Wildcats. He had a strong showing with 5 tackles, 2 for losses and 1 sack.
I still haven't found whether he has academic issues or what caused him to apply for the Supplemental draft. You'd have to think he had a couple of working brain cells if he can be moved around from LB to DE to DT and back.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

Ah Ha! Academic and team standards per a Bills' fan:
http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?p=9806
Mark Washington

Washington is an interesting athlete who, at roughly 6-3, 245, has been timed in the 4.55-4.60 range and transferred to Texas State from Arizona State. He was miscast in the role of being a very under-sized defensive tackle, but also failed to reach certain academic and team standards in the offseason.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

I can't believe that you are still talking about trying to draft this kid with a second round pick. Did you see his workout numbers and measurements? Absolutely mediocre at best.

Are you mentally turning us into the Houston Texans? Wasting 2nd round picks on supplemental players that don't have the brains or perhaps even the work ethic to stay eligible for school?
I'll stick to my prediction of a 4th round bid on Oliver at highest from the Pats.

What ever do you see in this kid that is making you buy into the hype?
Wes Welker was at least a proven NFL wide receiver before we forked over a 2nd rounder for him, and there are plenty of posters on this site that will argue that he wasn't even worth that price!

It would be BBs call. I don't know who else has traded their third-round picks, but let's say that everybody except Oakland has their original pick. If I understand the process correctly, if he bid Our original pick, that would put us #27 priority. In other words, If none of the 26 teams ahead of us bid a third round pick, we would be awarded the player.

If we bid Oakland's pick, that would give us the #20 priority, leapfrogging the Jets, Chiefs, Cowboys, Saints, Seahawks, Giants and Eagles.

Then balance the fact of where the Raiders pick is likely to be next year vs. the Patriots. It could easily be the #65 pick vs. the #96 pick. And so Belichick would have to decide whether leapfrogging those seven teams would be worth a potential 32 draft places. My guess is no, and that unless he thinks Oliver is truly a special player he'll bid the Patriots pick.

Now, knowing this, why not bid out the second rounder instead? The difference between the Patriots second rounder in 2008 and the Raiders third rounder could easily be 1 pick. Probably less than 10, so the value per pick bid would be much greater. To use round numbers, let's say the Patriots are drafting #30 and the Raiders #5. If the Patriots successfully bid their own third rounder, they'd be left with draft picks #12 (49ers), #30, #62, #69. If the Patriots successfully bid the Raiders third rounder, they would be left with #12, #30, #62, #94 with a slightly improved chance of getting Oliver. If they bid their second pick, they would be left with #12, #30, #69, #94, with a much, much greater probability of landing Oliver.

Note that this exercise is done with the assumption that within the three tiers, teams are slotted by inverse record from 2006. It is possible there is a random lottery process to slot them instead. If so, there's no benefit to bidding the Raiders pick.

The Raiders cannot bid a third rounder unless they trade for one between now and then.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

I can't believe that you are still talking about trying to draft this kid with a second round pick. Did you see his workout numbers and measurements? Absolutely mediocre at best.

Are you mentally turning us into the Houston Texans? Wasting 2nd round picks on supplemental players that don't have the brains or perhaps even the work ethic to stay eligible for school?
I'll stick to my prediction of a 4th round bid on Oliver at highest from the Pats.

What ever do you see in this kid that is making you buy into the hype?
Wes Welker was at least a proven NFL wide receiver before we forked over a 2nd rounder for him, and there are plenty of posters on this site that will argue that he wasn't even worth that price!

I have no idea what you're talking about. We were trying to figure out the mechanics of the supplemental draft order. Oliver's name never got brought into it except as an example.

And the posting was done before Oliver's workout. You can cross-reference this thread from nearly six hours later:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=56796
 
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Re: Supplemental draft.

Ah, and that article finally clarifies how/when the exact order is determined within each tier - by random drawing on the morning of the draft. That makes for some interesting strategy. If, say, the Pats end up drafting first in their tier, probably a fair bit higher than their eventual 2008 position, that makes the supp draft a little more attractive. And vice versa with using the Oakland pick.

Here's the groups:

So group #1 is:
1 Oakland
2 Detroit
3 Cleveland
4 Tampa Bay
5 Arizona
6 Washington
7 Minnesota
8 Houston
9 Miami

Group #2 is:
10 Atlanta
11 San Francisco
12 Buffalo
13 St. Louis
14 Carolina
15 Pittsburgh
16 Green Bay
17 Jacksonville
18 Cincinnati
19 Tennessee
20Denver

And the Playoff group is:
21New York Giants
22 Dallas
23 Kansas City
24 Seattle
25 New York Jets
26 Philadelphia
27 New Orleans
28 New England
29 Baltimore
30 San Diego
31 Chicago
32 Indianapolis


I think that we all assume (I know assume) that Oliver will go in the third round. The interesting thing is that many teams tha might be interested in Oliver do not have the corresponding third round pick in next year's draft to make the bid.

Baltimore
San Diego
Oakland
Denver

All do not have third round picks next year. Three of them would be in the last groups with the Pats. I think that we all do not want the Pats to bid the Raider's thrid round pick, but Oliver may be worth the Pats third round pick. Depending on the lottery, the Pats 3rd round pick could be as high as the 20th pick or as low as #32.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

The lower 3rd might be too much, although with two picks in that round, I guess a reach wouldn't be too bad a gamble. However, that 3rd could be valuable ammo in moving up next year, considering we'll have two #1's. I'd offer a 4th, and our low 3rd at most. The kid had academic problems, and his numbers aren't great. We all know the Pats like smart players.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

I can't believe that you are still talking about trying to draft this kid with a second round pick. Did you see his workout numbers and measurements? Absolutely mediocre at best.

Well, they were and they weren't. Step back for a second. Here is a kid that was NOT prepping to come out this year (like so many others) and he went on an realed off the 4.56 with a lot less time to get ready than some of the other players.

Game tape of this kid will show teams a LOT more than the group workout would.

Are you mentally turning us into the Houston Texans? Wasting 2nd round picks on supplemental players that don't have the brains or perhaps even the work ethic to stay eligible for school?
I'll stick to my prediction of a 4th round bid on Oliver at highest from the Pats.

Oliver was a certain 1st round pick if he had entered this year. If he had been academically eligible, he'd probably have been a top 15 pick, if not a top 10.

To say that the kid doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to stay eligible for school without knowing him is hugely ignorant because you don't know the whole story. Remember, he was planning on remaining in school, but he we ineligible because of one class.

What ever do you see in this kid that is making you buy into the hype?
Wes Welker was at least a proven NFL wide receiver before we forked over a 2nd rounder for him, and there are plenty of posters on this site that will argue that he wasn't even worth that price!

Clearly you didn't watch this kid at all last year. He held Calvin Johnson to 2 catches for 13 yards when Georgia played Georgia Tech. He also held Sidney Rice to 3 catches for 31 yards.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

Of course the only HOFers (steve Young, Reggie White) from the SUpplemental draft, came from the 1984 USFL dispersal supplemental draft:

Cris Carter was a Supplemental Draft selection (4th round 1987). He hasn't made the HOF yet (he will be eligible next year), but he has a shot.
 
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Re: Supplemental draft.

Every "creditable" source I have seen has pegged Oliver at the 1-20 picks of the "08" draft. Beoli is all about value not emotion. If you could get a top 20 pick with the 64th pick in that draft, would that represent value to you?
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

Well, they were and they weren't. Step back for a second. Here is a kid that was NOT prepping to come out this year (like so many others) and he went on an realed off the 4.56 with a lot less time to get ready than some of the other players.

What that tells me is that the kid didn't have the work ethic to work his butt off and prepare to put on his most impressive performance for scouts. If he didn't get a personal trainer to prepare for his big chance to impress pro scouts then he's dumber than I gave him credit for. And btw 4.56 is slow of foot for a CB, sorry to break it to you. Some scouts had him timed as slow as 4.6.

Game tape of this kid will show teams a LOT more than the group workout would.

Gametape that you have access to, or are you just making this up as you go along?

Oliver was a certain 1st round pick if he had entered this year. If he had been academically eligible, he'd probably have been a top 15 pick, if not a top 10.

Draft stock can go up and down. Oliver's stock took a serious tumble when he couldn't stay in school. It fell even further with his mediocore physical measurements and workouts.

To say that the kid doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to stay eligible for school without knowing him is hugely ignorant because you don't know the whole story. Remember, he was planning on remaining in school, but he we ineligible because of one class.

And you say this because you know him personally? What class did he flunk then? Or did you just magically happen to get access to his transcript?

Clearly you didn't watch this kid at all last year. He held Calvin Johnson to 2 catches for 13 yards when Georgia played Georgia Tech. He also held Sidney Rice to 3 catches for 31 yards.

From what I've heard Calvin Johnson was not held in check by Oliver. His QB was getting bent over by the defense and spending more time on the turf than on his feet. That QB was nothing special anyways.

As for Sidney Rice, do you have any proof that only Oliver was covering him, and that his QB was not again getting his butt kicked?

You still haven't sold me on the hype.
Try giving me some solid facts that prove that Oliver is worth a high draft pick despite the intelligent issues and mediocre measurements.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

From GBN:

Gaither grades in… According to Len Pasquarelli of ESPN, Maryland sophomore OT Jared Gaither had a solid pro-day style workout prior to Thursday’s supplemental draft this morning. With representatives from all 32 NFL teams in attendance, Gaither measured in at just a tad under 6-9 and weighed 324 pounds. Gaither also reportedly ran well for a big man posting a 40-time in the 5.00 to 5.15 second range; he also did the short shuttle in around 4.50 second and the 3-cone drill in the area of 7.20 seconds. For the record, Gaither’s time in the 3-cone drill was considerably faster than any OT at this year’s combine, while his short shuttle time would have been third fastest. His 40-time would have been somewhere between 4th and 8th fastest. The only down note for Gaither was the fact that he was only able to do 15 reps pressing 225 pounds, ostensibly because he has a slightly strained shoulder. Here is the full list of players available in this week’s draft with brief scouting reports.
 
Re: Supplemental draft.

The bench reps isn't necessarily a complete negative. 6'9" means long, long arms (~7' wingspan). Big guys do more work per rep, although a man of his size would be expected to pump them out. May sound like a cop-out, but it usually rings true. He could prolly do 500+ a few times, but tire quickly at reduced weights. I imagine an NFL coach could maximize that.

7.20 cone drill is at the tail end of some DBs this year. Phenomenal.
 
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Re: Supplemental draft.

What that tells me is that the kid didn't have the work ethic to work his butt off and prepare to put on his most impressive performance for scouts. If he didn't get a personal trainer to prepare for his big chance to impress pro scouts then he's dumber than I gave him credit for. And btw 4.56 is slow of foot for a CB, sorry to break it to you. Some scouts had him timed as slow as 4.6.

Again, you don't know his situation and judging him like you have some idea that you do is just laughable. He may not have been able to afford a personal trainer. It could be why, since he'd probably lose his scholarship, he decided he couldn't stay in school.

As for what he was doing from January 6th to the end of the school year, could have been focused on his academics in an attempt to stay in school. And he just may not have learned the things he needed. You also do realize that some people just aren't good test takers, right?

Could he just be a screw up like you suggest? Yep. He could be. But from all accounts, Oliver is a great football learner and takes plays from the playbook/chalkboard to the field better than most.


As for his reported 4.56,while its slow, it isn't that slow. You need to brush up on what they were running this year. It ranged from 4.3-4.6. OH, and timing via a stop watch is not exactly the most accurate way to do things. You can add or lose .1 second rather easily.

Gametape that you have access to, or are you just making this up as you go along?

You have a really hard time with reading comprehension don't you? I said that "Game tape of this kid will show teams a LOT more than the group workout would." Where does it say that I have access to the game tape? Also, its a known fact that coaches get game tapes and do break downs of players.

You really are grasping for straws to try and defend the untenable position you've taken on the kid.

Draft stock can go up and down. Oliver's stock took a serious tumble when he couldn't stay in school. It fell even further with his mediocore physical measurements and workouts.

Talk about someone just making things up as you go along. Oliver's stock didn't fall that much because he couldn't stay in school. Again, it was ONE class.

As for Oliver's measurements, they are hardly mediocre. Hell, some of the best CBs in the league are the exact same size and build as Oliver. Including Samuel and Ty Law. You really need to do your homework better.


And you say this because you know him personally? What class did he flunk then? Or did you just magically happen to get access to his transcript?

I know this because that is what was reported. As I said, you don't know a thing about him so you should just zip it in terms of your huge frigging judgements on a kid you clearly don't know anything about.


From what I've heard Calvin Johnson was not held in check by Oliver. His QB was getting bent over by the defense and spending more time on the turf than on his feet. That QB was nothing special anyways.

So, you look at things in a vacuum and not in its entirety. Why do you think that the Georgia Tech QB was getting hammered? It couldn't have been because his receivers weren't gettnig open, could it? Nah. Couldn't be that.

It doesn't matter if the QB was nothing special. The fact is that the Georgia Bulldog Defense, of which Oliver was their #1CB, shut down Georgia Tech. for all intents and purposes. Yes, Oliver had some bad games, but even Guys like Ty Law and Champ Bailey have bad games.


As for Sidney Rice, do you have any proof that only Oliver was covering him, and that his QB was not again getting his butt kicked?

Yes, I have proof. Its called a scouting report that you can find on the internet. You should try looking them up sometime.

Here is the game log.
http://www.georgiadogs.com/fls/8800/stats/football/2006/fb0206.htm

The SC QBs completed 23 of 33. But Rice only got 3 of them.

You still haven't sold me on the hype.
Try giving me some solid facts that prove that Oliver is worth a high draft pick despite the intelligent issues and mediocre measurements.

Try performing a cranial-rectal inversion on yourself and getting a clue as to what real measurements and such are. Stop judging players you clearly know nothing about beyond some half-arsed guesses.

No one could sell you on anything because you refuse to do any research for yourself.
 
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