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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Off The Grid, Jan 5, 2012.

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  1. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    My GOD...

    I don't think ANYONE here is more Free Agent Averse than I...

    ...NOR more Draft-Centric...

    But I would INSTANTLY walk away from a 1st and a 3rd to get Super Mario...

    Is it POSSIBLE that Planet Hoosten might be obliged to let him go...for NOTHING??? :eek:
  2. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sign me up, it was a mistake to let Peppers go to the Bears. Having a player of William's caliber improves the entire defense.

    First win the superbowl, next piss everyone off by adding two 1st round picks and Mario Williams.
  3. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    I know I'm making an unfair comparison....

    But this past year NE had two double-digit-sack, pass rushers in Carter and Anderson. Two. That's a feat Mario hasn't achieved since 2008.

    That's not a knock against Mario. He's great. And versatile. I just can't help but think that we'd be giving up way, way, way too much to adress an area we did just last season -- and adressed it unbelieveably well -- for a fraction of the cost.

    Basically, the D has way more needs than just one guy.
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really, we can't get through the wild card week of the playoffs without this fantasy crap erupting?? Ian should have a fantasy FA forum like the draft forum for year round fantasizing.
  5. ProudestRyno

    ProudestRyno Rookie

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    It's impressive how many sacks Carter and Anderson got this year. But let's be real...Mario Williams is a different beast and would improve the pass rush in a BIG way. A team's pass rush shouldn't be judged based on the number of sacks. It's about pressure. Sometimes you get the sack, sometimes you don't. But it's the pressure you want.

    Would you rather have a pass rush that gets you 2 sacks in a game and no pressure the rest of the game. Or a pass rush that gets no sacks, but is getting consistent pressure, QB hits/hurries throughout the game?
  6. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    You are creating a false dichotomy. Both Anderson and Carter were indeed fantastic at creating pressure this season. Their sacks were not just some sort of arbitrary flash in the pan success. They consistently created pressure. Especially when they were out there at the same time.

    So yeah, it isn't just the pass rush that's the problem. Paying a boatload for one guy isn't the solution -- especially since he'd be replacing one of the very few guys who wasn't a problem this past year.
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Who cares? It's not like there's a plethora of discussion taking place on the main board right now.

    If you don't like it, don't read and/or post in the thread. Simple as that.

    That being said, NFL.com has him listed as an LB. I haven't seen a single Texans game this year, so I don't know whether he's predominantly being used as a DE or OLB, or what he'd project as in our system. Which would be a pretty significant factor, I think, in determining whether or not we'd want him on board.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    When Phillips arrived, they moved Williams from DE to OLB, because they switched to the 3-4.
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Roger.

    Well, if we are planning on the 3-4 next year, I'd say go for it. It's not like we have a litany of talent at OLB as it stands.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually there is a plethora at the moment, that's the rub...
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Between Troy Brown's bloviating re: the Gillette bumper music and endless speculation about B'OB, I don't know how we'll ever manage to fit this thread in.
  12. ProudestRyno

    ProudestRyno Rookie

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    I NEVER SAID THEY WERE.

    My response was directed at the claim that Williams hasn't posted double digit sacks in a while, and Anderson and Carter have. That statement questioned the impact Williams would have only because he didn't "have double digit sacks".

    My point was to show that sacks are an over rated stat and Williams would have a huge impact.

    Also, I never said it would be wise to spend a ton of money on a guy like Williams. Again, I was just pointing out that he would have an impact, and to discount that impact only because he hasnt had double digit sacks in a while is wrong.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    In my mind Mario is a play maker and an incredible athlete. Basically he can start on any of the 32 teams in the league. The only real wart I see in his game is that he sticks on blocks a tad too long.

    However our defense the second worst in the league and we need a lot of help, signing a player like this will hamper our ability to surround him with other playmakers down the road.

    I think the process for improving a sorry defense is two fold:

    1.) Add an inexpensive tier two OLB either via the FA route or the trade route in the offseason. I expect there to be some opportunities later in the summer after the initial FA window opens.

    2.) Add playmakers via the draft. First up a pass rushing OLB and for that Montgomery of LSU should be sitting there for us. Then use the second first rounder for a solid 3-4 DE. Fletcher Cox of Miss State would be perfect in our system. Use the second round for a FS that can start from day one. Lester of Alabama or Martin of Ok State (OK so Luck did light him him during the bowl game, but hey Luck lit up everybody he played this year) should do nicely. Trade the third rounder for additional picks, since BB usually stinks at picking third rounders.
  14. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Exactly.

    With a healthy and dominant Mario, in 2010, the Texans were still utter garbage on D; probably worse than the Pats are right now -- both had utterly awful secondaries.

    But Wade steps in, revamps that D with a series of small but significant FA moves; Daniel Manning and Jonathan Joseph to help the Secondary, and Shaun Cody to NT. That, along with a solid draft which gave them their DT JJ Watt and Brooks Reid at OLB. What happens? Even with Super Mario out after, like, wk 5; Houston still has a great D.

    Those are the kinds of moves this team needs to pursue.

    Or better yet, just look at the kinds of moves our own franchise made in '03 after a pretty bad year on D in '02. It wasn't the big name FA who turned it around (*ahem* Colvin). It was good draft picks who became starters like Wilson (later, Asante too) and Warren; along with guys like Rodney and Washington in FA. Quality castoffs who could still play.

    There needs to be a quite a few moves. Can't just cough up a 1st and a boatload of cash on 1 guy and expect it to be ok.
  15. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Agreed- the Patriots are on bye, so who cares?

    Thanks to Wade Phillips, Williams now has pro experience as a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 DE. The Phillips 3-4 doesn't demand much versatility out of its OLBs, though, so Williams would still have a whole lot to learn if he somehow did end up here, but just being comfortable playing at LB in general can't hurt.
  16. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    WOW!! :eek:

    You sure come across as a very happy, well adjusted soul!! :bricks:

    Hey!! Somebody's speculating that we might seize an extraordinary Opportunity!!

    Let me CRAP all over that!! :rocker:

    Mister Mo Lewis Rocks = "Let's Celebrate Drew Bledsoe Nearly Dying"!! :bricks:
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wade's 3-4 isn't our 3-4. Not to mention Bill's MO isn't trading multiple high draft picks for the opportunity to pay top tier salary for something he can engineer for a lot less.

    Reading this article by a Texans beat guy leads me to believe that Bill won't be interested for the same reason the Texans won't be inclined to commit to Mario for the long haul.

    I'd add to that quote that bad front offices and organizations and fans fall in love with players while smart organizations remain committed to value and smart fans grasp that.


    Why Franchising Mario Williams Is the Right Move for the Houston Texans | Bleacher Report
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL Because that's all clowns like you got...:bricks:
  19. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    Sooo...Because we need more than one guy, we should ignore ALL improvement?? :bricks:

    ...Including acquiring one of the best 5 players in the GAME??? :confused:

    You might want to reconsider your thinking, there, old sport. ;)
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well...my issue is why fit any of them in...although the BOB issue (as opposed to what the thread has been hijacked into as usual) is at least relevant.
  21. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    ................................
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  22. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    Pointing out that you're a bitter low-life that celebrates Drew Bledsoe's near-death is FAR from all I've got...

    But it's more than enough for the likes of you.
  23. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    I understand that your mental state renders reality fuzzy at best..

    But the only HiJacking that's been done, is by you. :rolleyes:
  24. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    Basically, I was soliciting opinions as to whether Mario...

    A ~ Might indeed become an unrestricted Free Agent, due to Planet Hoosten's travails...and...

    B ~ Whether he'd be a good Investment.
  25. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Someone pointed out in another thread about versatility. Having a player that can go from a DE in either alignment and also have the ability to not only set the edge but be ferocious while blitzing as an outside LB is a weapon that cannot be undervalued.

    This is one guy I hope the Patriots do go after. They have the picks and they can make the cap work. Mario would help this defense in a lot of different area's. I can't believe people are judging him on his sack totals? Has anyone ever watched a Houston Texans game?
  26. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    BRAVO!! :rocker:

    Super Mario ~ as discussed by Brother Jay and others, elsewhere ~ is a SuperBEAST!!

    Those who judge his IMPACT based on Sacks betray a COMPLETE ignorance of this Great Game.

    If we could ~ because of Planet Hoosten's Cap Issues ~ get him for FREE...:eek: :eek: :eek:

    It would be the Coup of the Century!! :rocker:
  27. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Mario would be sweet! Either as 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB, I'd expect he'd be a beast.

    Whether the question we need more than one guy, he would help immensely.

    I mean, the secondary really doesn't need much more help in 2012, with Mccourty/Arrington/Dowling at CB next year, Chung at S, and Moore at CB/S, the team really just needs one good safety next to Chung. A player like Mario would make them all better too.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  28. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nothing is free... We can get anyone we want, but as Bill often reminds those of us who listen there is a tradeoff. We have other needs, and we have a pair of TE's we probably won't even be able to hang on to because they won't stay for free... Mario spent most of this season on IR. At a cap hit in excess of everyone on this roster except the QB. They've already paid him $54M and have nothing tangible to show for it until they brought in a cagy old DC who finally schemed them at least to a division title and the playoffs without Mario even factoring into the equation...
  29. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless he went on IR or something in which case you'd be back to square one and hoping there were enough coachable effort guys on the roster beneath him to allow Bill to do what he did this season...
  30. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Who sez that Carter and Anderson and Ninkovitch weren't getting pressures as well as sacks?
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