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Suh to the Pats? It can happen?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by DW Toys, Apr 5, 2010.

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  1. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    The rumor is picking up steam that the Lions want out of #2 in the first to pick up some additional "groceries". They are enchanted with RFA Anthony Hargrove of the Saints, but what if the Pats put up a better offer and target Mr. Suh? What "IF" (and this is in my opinion so do not ask for links Cousins other than the Lions want added picks).

    I am not the biggest "Suh to the Patriots" fan, but it makes sense.

    Nobody wants what Suh will cost, but the Pats might not get down that low to get a blue chipper for some time (and hopefully only by trade). We swap #22, #53 and Ron Brace DT. That is a huge haul to give up but we signed VW and I think the Brace pick last year had some precautionary mind set to it. Pryor has worked out better than expected so Brace can be a moving part. But that is what you pick up these "next year" picks for. I see Suh as a pretty sporty 5 Tech DE here for many years so his contract should even out after a few years.

    The NFL Draft Chart numbers simply do not work with #22 and #53 (or #44 for that matter).#22=780 points and #53=370 points and of course #2 is worth a ridiculous 2,600 points and then you have to pay through the nose for said player's contract. So the value-add difference would be our last years second rounder DT Brace who might be a better 4-3 fit with the Lions as he was at B.C.

    The major issue is with Suh, is he head and shoulders better than what we can get at #22 and #53? I see him as a younger, more consistent Seymour and Seymour would have cost us the same to resign and keep as this kid.

    Theory is that the Lions would go OT at #22 and there should be either Anthony Davis, Charles Brown, Rodger Saffold or Bruce Campbell for the taking. #53 is the BONUS pick for them. They go CB, RB or MLB.

    For more intrigue there is Plan #B
    -Just to be a stinker I would make AD part or this deal and ask for the Lion's 4th rounder #100. They could then move Levy over to MLB to take over for the departed Foote and have Peterson and Thomas as your two OLB's.

    We get #2 and #100 and the Lions get #22, #53 Brace (better 4-3 fit) and AD. It's actually fair and not one sided but the AD salary makes up for the shellacking we will take with the Suh contract.
    DW Toys
     
  2. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    After they make this trade, they can trade one of their other seconds for DeMarcus Ware :rolleyes:
     
  3. Blizzzard

    Blizzzard Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #54 Jersey

    Goodell:
    "With the 1st pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, the St. Louis Rams select......
    NDAMUKONG SUH!!!!"

    "The New England Patriots are now on the clock." :eek:

    LOL, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.
    I know it would probably be a draft day deal if Suh were there, but what if it had to go down before the draft, and the Rams were content with the first QB in the second round.. or 1 more year of Bulger.

    Besides that I don't know if I would want to give up #22 and #53 even if it were lopsided in our favor. This draft can get us 2 very good starters with those picks, which I see as more valuable than 1 GREAT starter while we are trying to restock.

    What I would do is this years 1st (or #44 if we could swing it) PLUS our next year's #1 for Suh.
    Since of course we would have a potentially higher #1 pick from the raiders, and next year not being very deep.

    Let them then flip our next years #1 for an additional 2nd rounder this year, if thats what they want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  4. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    #54 Jersey

    Their #2 pick = 2600 points.

    Our:

    #22 = 780
    #53 = 370
    Total = 1150 points.

    So you're valuing Brace at around 1500 points - worth the #7 overall pick.
     
  5. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Why the sarcasm? OK Here we go with the Madden stuff. I was actually thinking of trading Maroney for Adrian Peterson but I want a pick thrown in by the Vikes. How about Tom Brady for Jason Campbell? I hear that Campbell is available? I'll bet the Raiders trade us their #1 QB Russell for Randy Moss because we have upped Randy's game now!..............Are we all set with this stuff?

    I don't want to trade for Ware because he will be cut in training camp anyway.

    O.K. that is over with now so you can save your arrows.

    Think about what I said about Suh and it makes sense. I am not a great Suh fan. It just might work and it is compelling in lieu of the McNabb trade and the Board shake up.

    It's not fact, just theory.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Yep. A deal like this would have to start with #22 + the 2011 pick from the Raiders, and probably go up from there.
     
  7. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    The Patriots are more likely to draft a Quarterback in round 1 than to move up to #2

    The Pats will NEVER move up to the single digits as long as BB is running this team,no reason to pay huge dollars and move up in a very thick draft,they can get a playmaker at 22 if they stay.
     
  8. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I suspect you're getting that reaction because the trade you proposed doesn't seem realistic. Look at the precedent for trading up high in the draft. In 2004 the Giants gave up their 3rd, 2005 1st + 2005 5th just to move up three spots from #4 overall.

    The cheapest move up ever was last year's Mangini-Tannenbaum sweetheart deal to move 12 spots from #17 to #5...and you're proposing essentially identical value to that deal to get you from #22 to #2 for a player who is coveted by far more teams than Sanchez was.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  9. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good point. I do not know how to answer that but a lower first and a second with a player is all I got. Maybe another player.I don't know what it will take. But.....It makes sense if they really want to move back and collect talent. Here is a major point, Do the Lions owners want to see $30 million added to the bottom line for one guy or can they see a more realistic value in three or four players? That might be a huge equation....money! Stafford hurt a lot. They signed a few decent FA's who cost as well.

    Can't see anyone giving more unless the Niners want to give two #1's and that comes up short as well.

    It's the point system I know, but they can talk all they want about moving out of #2 but nobody is going to give up a whole Draft. Two good picks and a young player suited to their defense will cost them way less and give them way more. They are talking of signing DT Hargrove who is a restricted FA and would cost them a pick back to the Saints and more $ than the signed Brace. No pick required in my Plan A proposal and a younger (but less experienced)player to build with a defense minded coach.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  10. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite In the Starting Line-Up

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    No Jersey Selected

    I think the patriots can do more with two picks than selling the family jewellry for one player. Its probably a very long shot.
     
  11. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good point. The Lions are the ones who want to trade out. They are asking... not the Pats. It is a proposal for thought only. As I said the crazy value numbers do not work and if the Raiders fall flat we could be looking at paying a top five pick in 2011 as well. Who knows about a new CBA.
    DW Toys
     
  12. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    If the Raiders fall flat we could be looking at paying a top five pick in 2011. I am sure BB thought of that so the single digit Draft picks could happen...right?.

    DW Toys
     
  13. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    #54 Jersey

    I offered up a scenario before VW signed his contract whereby we traded him and Matt Light to the Chiefs for the #5 pick and the #68 pick, and we then trade the #5 and whatever else to the Rams for the #1 pick. It would make more sense to do it with the Lions.

    But we won't trade Vince now so the idea is dead.

    It would simply cost too much to sign him anyway, even if we did trade up.
     
  14. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    #54 Jersey

    It could be #1 overall yet. Gradkowski or JaSkittles won't be winning more than 4 games.
     
  15. SeauOUCH

    SeauOUCH On the Game Day Roster

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    I'd make that trade but I REALLY doubt the Lions would. The trade value chart is broken anyways, the value of the 1st few picks is WAY WAY WAY too high.

    Look at the chiefs last year, they took that DE at #3 which was considered a HUGE reach ( he would go mid 20's this year ). They are paying him like an all-pro yet he is just a decent DE. If I was the Chiefs GM last year I would have swapped #3 overall for number #10 straight up if nobody was offering anything decent.

    Very very few players will be worth the $ they get in the top 5 slots, if that player doesn't turn into an all-pro you have a horrible contract on your hands.

    Suh would be a beast for us but he's gonna go way too high to make a reasonable trade up to get him.
     
  16. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    Defensive tackles have, perhaps, the highest bust rates out of any position. Trading up and handing a massive contract to a conversion project would be a mistake. This team has other holes it needs to fill before it starts handing out 40 million dollars guaranteed to 4-3 tackles.
     
  17. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    I would bet you anything you want right now that no matter where the pick is in 2011
    If its in the top 10, BB is trading down for 2 or more picks into the lower 1st,2nd or 3rd. - he is NOT going higher than where he took Mayo at 10 back 2 years ago...

    And,yes,I considered the lower pay scale for rookies into this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  18. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Just to stay zany, what if McCoy fell to 6 or 7? He would make a great 3-4 end and instantly improve the pass rush.

    Trade Patriots pick #22, #57 and the Patriots 2011 first rounder. Assuming the Patriots end up around pick 25 next year the trade is about equal.

    NFL draft-pick value chart - NFL - ESPN
     
  19. SeauOUCH

    SeauOUCH On the Game Day Roster

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    McCoy would make a horrible 3-4 end, he is only a 4-3 DT imo. Penetration is his biggest ( only ? ) strength, which would be completely wasted in our system.
     
  20. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    You could be right! But....As the Lions, they are stuck looking for suitors. If he gets a top three or four, we might be stuck with it.
    DW Toys
     
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