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Stunning Democrat Hypocrisy

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    So we haer that since voting is a right you don't need to identify who you are when you vote so say the dems.

    Well unless it's their primary of course...


    MA Democrats: No Entry to Convention Without Photo ID




    More do as i say not as i do.

    Dems apparently don't want voter fraud at their primary, or are they trying to disenfranchise people?
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    The primary as defined by Massachusetts Convention is not an open election, as guaranteed by the constitution...

    It is the exclusive venue of registered democrats... no theocratic wingnuts allowed, just common sense folks.
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    My Jersey:

    But...... but..... what about the 78 year old woman who has muscular dystrophy and bells palsy and Lou Gerhig's disease who is bedridden and wheelchair bound and can't move more than 3 inches without extremem pain?!?!? Why are the democrats trying to disenfranchise this woman?!?!?!
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    You think individual rights are the same as entry into a convention? Really?

    I thought you were opposed to "gotcha" politics? That seems to be your theme on thread-starting these days.

    C'mon! Get serious. This is a serious election with serious issues and consequences at stake. Enough of this crap.
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Which one?
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    I think I will head to Tampa in August and stamp my feet, and cry unconstitutional when they do not let me in to the wingnut convention...
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Yeah...her and the other 1,650,000 million nursing home residents in the same situation. Or the 1.56 million who, yearly, are sick enough to receive hospice care in their homes or in hospice facilities?

    What about them?

    About Nursing Homes

    http://www.nhpco.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3788
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    It also costs money to enter.

    But this isn't voting, is it? Where in the Constitution is the right to attend a party convention? (Still waiting to hear your answer on your Constitutional claim about voter registration)

    Did you even read this, or are you just making things up?

    Or have the Dems tried to force the pubs to permit everybody to attend their conventions, without any ID? That would in fact be hypocrisy, although it still wouldn't be the same as voting.
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    My Jersey:

    Sure seems to me that the dems are trying to disenfranchise them completely from party politics. And for some reason you're comfortable with this.
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    That's it? That's all you have?

    There are only a couple hundred delegates to the MA Democrat Convention - they have to be appointed, they have to pay for their attendance, they have to arrange and pay for their travel to and from the convention center....how many nursing home residents or hospice patients are going to want to do that as opposed to how many of the over 3 million nursing home residents or hospice patients are going to want to fill out an absentee ballot?
  11. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Is that question really necessary?
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Obviously there are vast differences in a convention vote and open elections but it's interesting that the Dems have determined the best way to insure there won't be voter fraud is to require photo ID's.
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Do you actually believe that the Republicans won't do the same in one way or another or do you believe that they will let anyone who wants to just walk into their convention in Tampa?
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Are they doing it to prevent voter fraud or are they doing it to prevent anyone who is not registered with the convention from getting in and perhaps stealing information or causing a disturbance or, worse case scenerio, physically harming someone?

    After all, we only have Breitbart rhetoric saying that ID is being required for voting purposes - and that's rhetoric that's not worth too much.
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Yeah, that's a cute, folksy reply that indicates you are just baiting people that aren't like you (which is pretty much everyone) into this silly stuff, As we all know there is no "78 year old woman who has muscular dystrophy and bells palsy and Lou Gerhig's disease who is bedridden and wheelchair bound and can't move more than 3 inches without extremem pain" other than the one you imagine in your head. My "which one" question was rhetorical, of course, so it don't matter.

    You're just clownin' around like Agent 13 did,. Got it.
  16. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    That's a good point
  17. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    Win: the first clause of this sentence.
    Fail: the equivalency between "voter fraud" among millions and disruption at a delegates-only convention.

    Speaking not to you, but to any who are silly enough to want to claim that every voter should be in the convention:

    The hall's not big enough, for starters. For better or worse, party conventions are not open to every citizen of the country or of a state. You have no right to attend the state party convention. You do have a right to vote in party primaries, if they state they're open to all people who register with that party, by their state's rules. In Virginia, you can vote in either primary. I skipped the Republican one this year but I considered it. In any event, in all but a handful of states, you do have a right to vote in a primary. Just not to attend the convention. Sorry.

    Now, this is stunning:

    For Wisconsin Primary, No Voter ID Needed

    So let me get this straight: it's really not that big a deal, except when the vote is against Democrats?

    Doesn't this tell you guys something?

    The rapidly thickening Republican bozone layer threatens to extinguish intelligent life in America.

    PFnV
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:



    Fantastic job ,missing the point, the pubs support voter ID to ensure that only legit voters vote, so checking ID is consistent the dems OTOH think it is wrong for a real election but OK when it is for their meeting. As I said they believe in do as I say not as I do.

    Funny that some responders think dems voting at their convention deserves more protection that a real election involving the USA.

    From my POV the real election is far more important than a party function.
    Apparently dem supporters think the election is less important and less deserving of protection.
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    The Constitution agrees with you - that's why it's evolved over time to guarantee every citizen over 18 years of age, barring convicted felons, has a right to vote in it - but doesn't say jack about who can or cannot attend a convention.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    You're still having a hard time understanding the concept of Constitutional rights.
  21. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I'm not sure he is. I read him as saying everyone has a right to vote, but not everyone has the right to vote as someone else. The debate is about what measures that will insure we will not have the unintended consequences of preventing legitimate voters from casting a vote.

    I don't think anyone can deny that any such measures would be a burden to some voters(some hope so) but at the same time it would be a burden to fraudulent voters. The balance is what measure would ensure the most legitimate votes and the least fraudulent ones?

    I've heard the arguments about the small number of voter fraud cases tallied but I still feel that without a way to identify them at the polls, how do we know what the real numbers are?

    I'm uneasy about the reported shenanigans that went on in registering troves of voters in the last election and I think the imagination of political machines can and do take advantage of any opening they see. Right now the fears are that democrat votes would suffer the most from ID requirements. Some day that may shift. I suspect voter fraud and ID ideas will flip flop when it does.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  22. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    Comparing a state party convention to voting absolutely does show that a fundamental part of the equation is being overlooked -- people's rights.

    (I'm not sure what you were saying in your 2nd sentence -- I think there was a word missing or a typo, perhaps?)

    I agree with you about the pros and cons, as Ive stated in the other thread about voter ID. But nobody touting voter ID is providing any kind of data or even demonstrating an interest in taking a rational look at the issue.

    imo, this thread is an example of that. Why start a new thread claiming something that isn't true? Strikes me as either completely lacking any understanding of what rights are or as simply being completely disingenuous.
  23. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    LOL, yeah what a clumsy sentence. I meant to ask what measures would work to prevent voter fraud without disenfranchising hoards of voters.

    Regarding the data, there isn't anything measurable is there? I've used the analogy on how many underage alcohol purchasers we'd know about if there were no ID requirement. I know that's not a perfect analogy but you get what I'm saying don't you?
  24. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    It's kind of strange....this country has laws which bend over backwards to try to assure that no innocent person is convicted of a crime - beginning way back with John Adams, a founding father, who said, "It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished," and yet we do not want to grant the same consideration to a constitutional right to vote.

    Everyone seems to be worried about some unknown number of ineligible voters being allowed to vote but no one seems concerned about the estimated 11% of voters who might be disenfranchised.

    Somehow I think John Adams would be concerned.
  25. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    I hear you and the tie should go to the voter but is the status quo the answer? My concern is with the registration efforts. I know a registration is not a vote but a registered voter can vote. We saw a significant number of questionable registrations in the last effort. We have no proof that they translated into votes but I can imagine elections(especially local ones) where a little gratuity here or there could tip the scales. Are ID's to be forever off the board?
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  26. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    MEETING is the operative word.... as opposed to an election, nice choice of words..

    You articulated the difference well...
  27. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    As it is now a person has to register to vote - you don't get to vote without having your name in the ledger of registered voters. In order to get that voter's registration card you have to show ID. It varies from state to state but here's an idea of what it takes.

    A valid Minnesota driver’s license, learner’s permit, Minnesota ID card, or receipt for any of these
    A valid student ID card including your photo, if your college has provided a student housing list to election officials
    A Tribal ID card that contains your picture and signature
    A valid registration in the same precinct under a different name or address
    A notice of late registration sent to you by your county auditor or city clerk
    A voter registered in the same precinct as you who can confirm your address with a signed oath
    An employee of the residential facility where you live who can confirm your address with a signed oath

    Both 1) a photo ID from the list below, and 2) a current bill from the list below with your current name and address in the precinct
    Photo IDs (may be expired) )
    Minnesota Driver's License
    Minnesota ID Card
    United States Passport
    United States Military ID Card
    Tribal ID Card
    Minnesota University, College, or Technical College ID Card

    Bills (delivered electronically or by mail)
    Utility bill due within 30 days of election day:
    Telephone (landline, cell, VOIP, etc.)
    TV (cable, satellite, etc.)
    Internet services
    Electric
    Gas
    Solid Waste
    Sewer Services
    Water
    Rent statement dated within 30 days of election day that itemizes utilities
    Current student fee statement


    http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=204

    It's only after you show the required information that you are registered and added to the list of registered voters in your voting precinct.

    It is there that you do not need to produce ID - your name is checked against the list.

    What they're trying to do now is make you show a state ID at the polling place - and not just any ID like the ones accepted for your registration - it has to be a state issued ID - and I just don't see the point of saying you don't need one to register but you do need one to vote. Why, if it's imperative to show ID, can't you use the same types of ID you showed to register?
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  28. chicowalker

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    My Jersey:

    I do get what you're saying, but if there's no meaningful evidence, people need to stop talking about voter fraud as if it is a fact.

    And if there's no meaningful data, that makes it all the more important that any proposal not take many people's votes away.

    But back to this thread's supposed topic, there's simply no comparison between a state party convention and actually voting, in open elections.
  29. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    My Jersey:

    My God it seems that the registration requirements are disenfranchising hoards of voters:). Now that I think of it the registration process for ID's could work but wouldn't the objections to that be the same?
  30. chicowalker

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    My Jersey:


    Well, maybe... there were a fair number of people disenfranchised back then... :)

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