Strongest jobs recovery in decades. Seriously.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Jobs recovery is stronger than past recessions - Sep. 2, 2010


    By historical standards, the labor market is recovering nicely -- job growth has started earlier than in past recessions.


    "Sustained, positive job formation began earlier in this recovery than in the prior two recoveries," said Lakshman Achuthan, managing director of Economic Cycle Research Institute.

    But today's economy is different. The problem is that the damage done during the Great Recession was so severe, it will take a lot more growth than normal to dig the job market out of its hole.

    There were 8.4 million jobs lost in 2008 and 2009 -- roughly 7% of all jobs at the start of the recession. That compares to a loss of 3.1% of all jobs during the 2001 recession and the jobless recovery that followed, and only 1.9% of jobs lost during and after the 1990-91 recession.
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster Supporter

    The graph is a joke, they even get the dates wrong for the 2000 recession (22months from 3-2001 & 11-2001???) , and then the editorial comment about jobless recovery, a lot of jobs were created between 2003 when the tax custs were enacted and 1/2007 when Pelosi and Redi took over congress.

    However I am sure that the dems will be rewarded for the Summer of recovery and the great job growth by the voters in Nov. :singing:
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    There was very little job growth. I think you'd have to cherry pick the years a little more carefully to try and make your point.

    Jobs created during U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  4. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    Regardless of any "silver-lining" you're trying to find, this depression will linger for years to come.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    There's no denying that, but a case can be made that Obama's approach is reasonably effective.
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    And cases can be made that Roosevelt's programs either helped or prolonged the Great Depression.

    Obama's policies may have helped ease suffering, but prolonged and further destabilized our economy. But one can never tell until years pass before a definitive assessment can be made.

    Who knows what the long-term effect of putting America's deficit into the stratosphere will be. I'm more concerned with the long-term, not the short-term.

    One thing is certain...programs like "Cash for Clunker" and the "First-time home-buyers incentive" are wrong and frankly, idiotic. If we want the economy to turn around, then we have to let home prices find their natural bottom so people will buy them and have confidence we have indeed bottomed out. Keeping the price of anything artificially high is just bad policy. If we don't keep home values artificially low, then there is no logic in keeping the artificially high. Besides, home values will ALWAYS find their natural bottom regardless of gov't policy.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    I'm not sure what that case is. When Roosevelt under pressure from Republicans decided to cut the federal deficit in 1937, we entered another recession that we did not come out of until we started gearing up for WWII and resumed deficit spending.

    What evidence do you have that deficit spending prolongs a recession and destabilizes the economy?

    I agree with, Who knows? But our country has handled even greater deficits in the past (based on percent of GDP) and we always do have the capacity to tax if we must.

    I think the idea of both programs was to help the economy come to a soft landing, which it did and the recovery started really quickly as the original article to this thread shows, but of course is not happening quickly enough.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    Patters, the FACT is, there hasn't been any recovery to date.

    Here are some links supporting Roosevelt's policies prolonged the Great Depression;

    FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

    ParaPundit: FDR Policies Prolonged Great Depression For Years

    New Deal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia FDR's Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression (9780761501657): Jim Powell: Books

    The Free Market: How FDR Made the Depression Worse

    Say Anything Shocker: FDR’s Policies Prolonged Great Depression

    Shlaes on the Great Depression | EconTalk | Library of Economics and Liberty

    Open Left:: Fox News: "Historians Pretty Much Agree" That FDR Prolonged the Great Depression

    See them all here;

    roosevelt's policies prolonged the depression - Google Search
  9. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    PR, check your links because you're contradicting your own argument. For example:
    Open Left:: Fox News: "Historians Pretty Much Agree" That FDR Prolonged the Great Depression

    Of course, I don't expect you to put real thought into your absurd claims, and I don't expect that you'll have a reasonable response to these facts, and I expect if you try to respond, you'll change the subject or feint.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    The POINT I was making is that there are arguments supporting Roosevelt's policies as well as those NOT supporting them.

    I was not referring to the minute details of each argument. Instead of looking for holes in poster's arguments (which you always do), look for where they may be correct.

    Why would ANYONE feign from you of all members?:rolleyes:
  12. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    And the ones not supporting them turn out to be tripe.

    There's the feint.

    This is fun! Let me google that for you :rolleyes:
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    It's not a copout at all. The FACT is, there are PLENTY of arguments from people more educated in economic theory than you, me or Strudel that show why Roosevelt's policies prolonged the recession.

    Strudel picked one link in his effort to find a hole, but failed.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  15. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Ah, this IS fun. And there's the old appeal to authority fallacy. You position's logic is in now demonstrated false. Wheee!

    Not really since it pretty much eviscerated the counter-arguments. Plus, and we've had this conversation before but I expect that would would conveniently forget. Either it was the New Deal that brought the US out of recession or it was WWII. There is no third option. That being the case, in either case it would have to be MASSIVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND INTERVENTION that brought the US out of recession. :ugh:
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    So you only stand by the one link? That's choice.

    So PR gets tooled and pulls out the insults. You are soooo cute when you are threatened.
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    You're only purpose to is talk in circles Strudel.

    FACT: There are popular arguments supported by advanced and recognized economists that both support and debunk Roosevelts policies. This is not debateable, yet you'll try keep this circular argument going by utilizing classroom debate techniques in a pompous attempt to win a debate. Good luck!;)

    You're not an intellectual even though you play one here.
  18. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    No you dumped a whole lot of crap and hoped to bury any opposition in it.

    Here's a question I'll guarantee you'll tapdance around:

    What was it about World War 2 that actually ended the Depression?
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    #18 Jersey

    Either you can prove there aren't recognized arguments on both sides or you can't.

    Which is it Strudel?
  20. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Um, I was pretty direct there, no?

    You haven't said anything here othere than "there are two sides." Well, so sh1t. Oh, and LOL @ "aw shucks, not all those fancy college learning and debate tricks", shuffle, shuffle.

    I think you say this about me but really think this about yourself. You get sooooo defensive, and then hide from your own conversation conversation.

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