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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TheGodInAGreyHoodie, Nov 23, 2010.

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  1. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    This board makes my head hurt. I watched the game -- we won. At least that is the way I remember it. It was only two days ago.

    But then I see the threads and think. I must be going senile. I am getting old. We could not possibly have all these thread about our offense and defense being ineffective if we had won, so we must have lost. So I go to nfl.com and sure enough we did win, just as I remembered.
  2. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If we don't win by 30 we might as well have not won at all.
  3. Willie55

    Willie55 Rookie

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    Yes they won. Yes the play calling on offense and defense became way too conservative in the fourth quarter. The offense, instead of doing what had gotten them 31 points suddenly went into the fetal position. Same thing with the defense, once the fourth quarter rolled around they went into that prevent crap and almost cost them the game. That's what people aren't happy about.
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Not only did the Pats lose, they're 2-8 and it's been a miserable, predictable season.
  5. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    Did it ever occur to you that the Colts have changed the way they played the first 3 quarters, and put a new strategy into the 4th quarter?
  6. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. For some, all wins are lucky and all losses are bad and reflect substandard talent and preparation. At this point, if the Pats finished 14-2, the team would be lottery lucky to some. There has to be a point where the number of wins can no longer be called lucky as an exercise in logic. Criticism is fine, but at times it seems like post-game criticism is the same level as the 2008 criticism after losses.

    In the end, there are no style points for wins and no impressive losing efforts when setting the playoff field. If those complaining every week can point to the better team in the NFL right now, it better not be one that suffered a loss to the Pats. At this point in the season, only one team identifed as on par in the NFL elite has beaten the Pats, and that team is on the block in two weeks.

    Although stated in terms of losing seasons, as Parcells said "you are what your record says you are." At 8-2, the Pats are much bettter than many expected they would be, and are far more entertaining than the team on the field last year. While some wait for the other shoe to drop in a losing effort this season, I am going to enjoy the ride.
  7. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't be confused! You always pick the Pats to win big and should continue doing so! We like you in the predict the score contest! As for the board, what's a message board without a bunch of negative nellies? The problem with the win is that it was way too close for comfort, but it's looking better and better as the week wears on! After all, once the next game happens, the only thing that matters for this past Sunday is the big fat "W" in the W/L column!

    Go Pats! Lamb-ify the Lions!!
  8. Garbanza

    Garbanza Rookie

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    Great victory against the Colts. The Defense (I call it the Lava Cake defense) came up big when it had to. However, no, I do not like the Defense. As Gerry Callahan said in his column today (Boston Herald) Bend and don't break is one thing, bending over is something else completely.

    The Pats pass defense is ranked second to last. Opposing QB's put up career numbers against them. This does not bode well for a playoff run (assuming the Pats get in). I hope for the best, but this lava cake d scares the sh*t out of me. All that said, I see potential and I think McCourty will be very, very good. I think Chung will continue to grow and learn to cover better; he already hits like a truck in run stop. Bodden coming back helps immensely. Finding an LB that has some coverage skills would be nice. A pass rush would be epic.

    However, our main competition in the division has its share of issues as well. I can't quite put my finger on it.....but it seems that the Jets pass rush sucks too. They can cover it better because they have two outstanding db's and I think their LB Harris is a monster. But still, you can't continue to win at the last second. Eventually it will bite you in the a@@...especially against a team with a winning record. I would imagine so, anyway. Perhaps they play down to the competition? I 'dunno. I do know that confidence is one thing - over-confidence is an entirely different animal.
  9. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    Awesome thread and i agree whole heartedly.

    Anyone think had the roles been reversed and Brady threw a pick at the end like Manning did people would be talking about the Colts being "lucky"

    Fact of the matter is the defense made a great play when it mattered. Sanders read Mannings eyes and Cunningham pressured him causing a bad throw. Followed by Sanders making a nice catch.

    We are living through what will undoubtedly be the greatest stretch this Patriot franchise will ever have and fans can't even enjoy it.

    Let me tell you more recent fans, it wasn't like this for the first 25 years I was watching the Pats. And it most likely will not be like this when Brady and BB are gone.

    Enjoy the win. The Colts are a great team. Don't give me that crap about Colt injuries, the Patriots won a superbowl with lesser recievers then what the Colts have out there now and Earthwind Moreland and freaking Troy Brown playing defensive back.

    And the Patriots are missing a lot of players now as well. Our GM and QB just aren't out there everyday crying to ESPN about it.

    Guys, enjoy this. When it is gone, it is gone. And you will miss the days when the Pats lucked into destroying the top defense in the league and beating one of the greatest QB's to ever play
  10. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Here is my take: the Patriots are in a rebuilding season and are winning on coaching, primarily. The fact we are 8-2 is due to superior coaching and a savvy veteran quarterback; otherwise, we'd be 5-5. Our record is a surprise to me. It would not surprise me to see us go 3-3 or 2-4 down the stretch and lose our first playoff game IF we do make the playoffs. I think at this stage the defense is what it is and will not get much better. 2012 will be our year.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No kidding. It's tough to be a Lions fan.

    Oh, wait, nevermind....
  12. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    I think that you are selling the talent on this team short.

    Offense
    -The o-line is a very good one.
    -The WRs are proven NFL receivers in Welker & Branch
    -The TEs are very good
    -The RBs are more than functional

    Defense
    -The d-line has a perrenial pro-bowler and a fmr top 5 NFL pick and a veteran in Wright that has performed year in and year out.
    -The LBs have a fmr 1st rounder and two 2nd round picks playing a ton.
    -The DBs have two 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders playing a ton.

    BB is one of the greatest, but you need talent to win consistiently and that is exactly what they are doing.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  13. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Not just that, but there are no great teams this year. It's sort of silly to say how the Pats can't win it when, if they beat the Jets, they will have beaten every likely AFC playoff team already this year. (And if they beat GB, the likely NFC representative.)

    A team wins the Super Bowl every year, it's not necessary to be the best of all time.
  14. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I considered overall talent in making my argument and concluded that we just don't have the horses for a significant playoff run, due mostly to shortcomings defensively in talent and experience. I differ with you here:

    * Without a healthy and productive Fred Taylor, the RBs are average.
    * The tight ends are showing flashes of huge potential, but are inconsistent.
    * Welker and Branch can't get it done by themselves; we need Tate to step up and make a statement.
    * The defensive line and linebackers can't muster a consistent pass rush and the linebackers lag in pass coverage.
    * The defensive backfield will be solid eventually but lacks experience, and whichever CB plays opposite McCourty is on shaky ground.
    * Pass defense is this team's Achilles heel.

    I don't see this team winning a playoff game at either Indy or New Jersey if things remain as they are now. I could see them having a reasonable shot at beating anyone else in the AFC
  15. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    I compare Sanders Int to Willie Mac's great stop on the goal line in 2003. If we don't win the Super Bowl in 03. Who would wistfully remember that stop? Nobody. If we go on and win it all. We will look back at that play and call it the key to the season.

    If we beat the 3 AFC East teams, we will more than likely have locked up the number one seed in the conference. No trip to NJ or Indy will be necessary. Let's put Indy as the 3 seed and give them a win at home against 6th seed. Pitt/Balt loser. We would probably draw the winner of the AFC West vs NY Jets at home. Off of a bye, Jets coming back off trip to SD. I'll take my chances. My prediction is Baltimore coming back to Foxboro for a return engagement.
  16. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Again, what is a "significant playoff run?" Regardless of how we fans might rate the Pats' talent on paper, the fact is that if they beat the Jets, they will have beaten every single likely AFC playoff team. With a bye, they won't HAVE to go to Indy or NY. With a bye, they'll have 2 weeks to prepare for a home playoff game against a team they will have already beaten this year, which if they win they're IN the AFC Championship game, which I assume qualifies as a "significant run."
  17. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    :) :) .......
  18. 37Harrison

    37Harrison Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    [​IMG]
  19. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd define a significant playoff run for this team as winning at least one playoff game.
  20. VectorPrime

    VectorPrime Rookie

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    Good god it is never enough for you people. We are 8-2 after going through the toughest stretch in the NFL. You guys keep moving the damn goal posts with "oh they did well here but this next stretch will determine our season" after every single big win. No, we have done EVERYTHING required of us and more. If you honestly think we go 2-4 over the next 6 games then you are a complete moron.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  21. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    No kidding. I doubt anyone who was a fan during the Rust era, would be complaining about our win over the Colts.
  22. SuperPatsFan

    SuperPatsFan Rookie

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    The cold hard truth is that by the time BB and Brady are gone, the old-timers will probably have passed, and the younger fans will have dumped the team and moved on to something else.

    /real_talk
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  23. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Baloney. The Pats worked their defensive game plan to near perfection, the entire game giving Peyton no quick, cheap scores. They invited,(forced ), Peyton to take short passes over the middle and burn clock, himself, even as the Pats offense burned clock with 170 yards on the ground. Occasionally, they would make Peyton pay for the short passes with 3 INTs, and should have had 5.

    The most prolific offense in the NFL scored 31 points, three over their average. they too did their part, to near perfection.

    I recall what Joe Kennedy, Pere, said on the close election of JFK. "My money bought him the Presidential election. But I'll be damned, if I will buy a landslide."
  24. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    I agree. I turned on the radio after the game (in the car going to dinner) and one guys (I believe he goes by "GRESH") was talking about how he was glad that they won, but could not share in the excitement because the defense did not close out the game. He said, "sure they got the pick, but they still didn't CLOSE out the game."

    I was perturbed by that comment. Why do we ALWAYS have to win with style for everyone to be happy. Why can't we just be satisfied with a WIN against a quality opponent? If Pats fans are unhappy with the outcome, then reason would perhaps dictate that the Colts are. Do you think Colt's messageboards are filled with threads of "We may have lost, but we sure made it interesting!!!!". No, they are not happy. They lost. We won, so we should be happy.


    I for one, am shocked that they are even in a position to be winning these games. Entering the season, the Pats had guys STARTING on defense when I would have been scared if they were my backups. They are still predictably last in some categories, but they are still winning. Just be happy.
  25. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    So you don't think the Pats "have the horses" to win a playoff game, even though if they beat the Jets they will have beaten every probably AFC playoff team already? Come on now, that doesn't make much sense.
  26. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    I think you need a new prescription for your glasses. This team is getting better in all aspects every week. The Offense is growing more productive both in their run and pass, and with growing consistency. The Pats O is now consistently rushing for around 135 plus yards a game, or more. Thsoe are championship stats, on the ground. The Patriots Offesne lead the league in the only really important stats, scoring and winning.

    The Defense is progressing nicely too. The run defense has stiffened to the point where it of a full championship caliber, now yielding under 100 yards a game. Oh sure, the early Ravens and Jets, and the out-lier Browns games are exceptions, that distort the real stats.

    The Pass pressure in steadily increasing, even if the sack totals are not. Belichick's Bend-don't Break is working too. Even as it distorts the stats. Purposely inviting the short pass over the middle, but in front of the deep backs, and LBs will yield yards, but not cheap, quick scores.

    Opposing Teams have to work their way down the field over a number of plays consistently, without a pick, or a dropped pass, or a fumble, or a sack, or a good pass defense play. Eight times in ten, the other guys couldn't do it, enough.

    This rope-a-dope strategy, inviting short pass completions, limits the number of sacks the Pats pass rushers can accumulate. The pass rushers don't have the time to get there, but they are increasingly forcing pressure and errant throws. I don't recall Peyton ever getting as much pressure,if not sacks, as in this game.

    I don't recall a game either, where Peyton made 5 mistakes throwing the ball, and the Pats got 3 INTs, and should/could have had 2 more.

    As far as talent is concerned, I echo the comment that the fast, raw talent is there. There are 2 number 1s on the DL, and a number 2; there are 1 number 1s, and 2 number 2s in the LB corps; and there are 2 number 1s, and 3 number 2s, in the DBs. The talent is there, but very young, and learning to play together.

    So I fail to understand your comment as to "not getting better" in the remaining 6 games, and playoffs. It flys in the face of Belichikian history too. His teams generally get better as the season progresses, for two reasons. He always has more genuine depth than others, and he plays his newcomers, draftees and FAs early. So they get and have experience later in the season. His depth is showing now, he has lost three probowlers, and is still winning, as others cry "Injury" excuses.

    There are seveal players who are developing this year. Unexpectedly, Guyton has been transformed as an inside pass defender. This year's Chung is night and day compared to his rookie year version. Cunningham is coming on, so is Ninkovich. Brace, Pryor, and Deadrick along with re-juvenated G. Warren, are providing key freshness and competency to the D-line. Zoltan has transformed the Punting, into a weapon. So has Tate transformed the returning, into a feared weapon. Mayo is making a bid for a Probowl berth. Most of all they are all coachable, follow the game plan, without free-lancing. What's not to like?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  27. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    How do your multiple threads of this nature help the situation?
  28. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    You're a tough sell, Tune. You don't need to be championship-caliber at every position to win a SB. Even the 1985 Bears had a flaw or two.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  29. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Things are a lot different in the playoffs, especially between teams that have played each other and adjust accordingly. But, I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong.
  30. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Awesome. (and my first name is Debbie).
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