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Stimulus saved between 1.4 million and 3.4 million jobs

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jun 11, 2010.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wait, Did the Stimulus Work? - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

    ... job cuts began shrinking just as the stimulus was going into effect last year, and the stock market began rising shortly after it passed. The stimulus was by no means the only reason, but it appears to have been a significant one.

    Based on its economic models, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that between 1.4 million and 3.4 million workers who have jobs would be unemployed if the stimulus hadn’t been enacted. Three of the best-known private economic research firms — IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com — have come up with similar estimates. The average estimated effect on employment is about 2.5 million jobs.
     
  2. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I'm not drinking this kool aid
     
  3. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Do they similarly show that for less money prior stimulus packages worked faster and more effectively?
     
  4. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    No but it does say:

    I'm very dubious of any job creation figures that are based on statistical models of what would have happened if the stimulus program hadn't gone through. Its not the same if they can't count the actual jobs and its also not verifiable. Its like those that argue what a QBs statics would have been if they played with WR X or behind o-line Y. It compares reality to fantasy.
     
  5. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Yup, I agree. After all, your belief that the stimulus wasn't a success is the only thing that matters, facts be damned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  6. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    What facts might those be? Last I checked the only thing they can do is speculate and guess since time travel isn't a viable option.
     
  7. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    You're right. I mean, these are merely experts -- trained economists with every tool at their disposal who do this sort of thing for a living.

    On the other hand, you have your gut feeling. Which I appreciate, since it's the same region of my body I turn to when I need reassurance that the world really is only 6,000 years old.
     
  8. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Trained expert means that their guesses equal fact? I'm not saying that *I* have a better answer or guess, I am saying that they have no proof and they're just speculating and I'm not going to buy in to it and proclaim this number as proof that the stimulus was a great thing.
     
  9. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Glad to see you thought the stimulus was awesome and exactly what we needed. I'm sure your children will never regret it.
     
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    It's true, I suppose there is the likelihood that almost every credible economist could be wrong. And there's also a possibility I'll wake up tomorrow to discover the sky is purple.
     
  11. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    If economists are always right, why did our economy fall apart? It seems to ME that if these EXPERTS were so reliable they would have prevented our economy from hitting the crapper.
     
  12. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Those were only the capitalist economists... the communist ones have been hoping for this for years!
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Better yet, if "experts" or economists are always right, why is it that they don't always agree? :confused2:

    My favorite is the dumb down logic of "hey, we just dumped $1 trillion into the economy, and it saved some jobs, so the stimulus is a success!". Well no **** it saved some jobs. Flying a helecopter across the country and pouring that money out the window would have saved some jobs too. The point of contention is whether or not the money was efficiently, and/or productively invested. According to most, it wasn't.
     
  14. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Is a job counted as in the construction industry ... installing an AC receptacle is considered a job.

    Putting in a window is a job ... and so on :blahblah:
     
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    There's no difference between saying "the stimulus saved jobs" and "the stimulus didn't save jobs".
    Both positions are pure speculation and only reveal what side of the aisle you're on.
    The only thing you can say is "I'm sure glad I'm not growing food and siphoning gas and the whole thing didn't sh!t the bed". There's no way to know how we didn't descend into another Great Depression (was it the bailouts, stimulus, luck, fate?), but thank Santa we didn't.

    So anyways, where are all the jobs coming from? There are still 20% out of work.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    A "job" is what we're all getting from the government and Wall Street.
     
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    A great case study of the effects of massive stimulus spending is Japan.

    Go look it up and see how much it helped them. Economic barometers/reports don't even tell the truth anymore (i.e. consumer spending and unemployment are 2 clear examples), so how and why should any of us believe this report.

    Did the first time home buyers credit work? We "could" say "Yes" if you want to look at housing while it was in effect. But if we look at what is happening now, prices are once again declining, mortgage applications have declined dramatically and permits to build new homes are near all time lows.

    The bottom line is that economies WILL find their bottom no matter what. Just as real estate prices will never, ever be determined by gov't stimulus'...wake up folks!:rolleyes:
     
  18. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    O rly? Could you provide some evidence to support that claim?
     
  19. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    LOL if you haven't heard the complaints about the "pork" spending in the stimulus bill, then you're just out to lunch.
     
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    LOL way to miss the point... yet again.

    Here is the statement:

    According to most? According to most... laypeople? Experts? Sea-monkeys?

    If the chief aim of the bill was to save jobs, and now everyone from the CBO to private investment groups to the AEI admit the stimulus has saved million(s) of jobs, then I don't see how you could argue the money wasn't efficiently or productively invested?

    If you don't believe the money was productively invested, where do you think it should have gone instead, which would have had the same/greater results in terms of job creation?
     

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