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Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited [Update: Jets cameraman?]

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by njpatsfan, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. njpatsfan

    njpatsfan Rookie

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    Mods: I think we need a sticky for this

    There is a photo circulating on the internet that purportedly shows evidence that the pats cheated. This photo was even referred to on the morning show on WEEI.

    It is important that everyone understand that in fact the photo originated on this site by a perhaps misguided patriots fan in this thread: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=60295

    This photo has been discredited here and on other reputable sites (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1624)

    This story has spun out of control, in no small reason to unsubstantiated "evidence' and speculation such as this.

    R
  2. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Done. For, at least a short period and for clarity, this needs to be a sticky.
  3. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Good call. I was going to suggest a similar sticky thread with "debunked rumors" and this photo should top the list. This photo plays a monstrous role in the misperception of what really happened.

    Regards,
    Chris
  4. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    I was wondering, if the guy in the hoax picture is not Estrella,
    then who is he, who does he work for, and why is he not wearing the orange vest as mandated by league rules?
  5. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    I love the attention the photo has gotten. It shows just how stupid this whole fiasco is. People (lead by idiotic Jets fans who demand a BB suspension and draft pick compensation) have jumped to conclusions based off of speculation and misinformation. It helps discredit the entire witch hunt.
  6. PantsB

    PantsB Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    For people who have video of the game at hand, you can find this cameraman at other times. Probably the easiest time is right before the Hobbs return, when they show the two Pats in the end zone waiting for the kickoff. He can be seen at least five other times on the Jets side of the field during the 2nd half (after the Patriots employee was supposedly removed). IIRC 2:17 left in the game is another time he is visible. Each time he is filming the field. He seems to be a network guy, considering the static camera men are also wearing black shirts of the same or a similar type.
  7. ursa99

    ursa99 Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    I'm the guilty party who posted the picture. I did it as part of a lively set of discussions on this board.

    In retrospect I wish I hadn't. I didn't think far enough ahead of the ramifications and how it might be pirated and posted around the globe and only add unsubstantiated 'evidence' that the Patriots had committed a misdeed. That person was NOT doing the illegal taping...

    I want to apologize to all the members of this board and to anyone else who may have been in the line of fire for this misguided post. I screwed up!

    As for punishment you may flog me in the body part of your choice...

    -Ursa
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2007
  8. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    ===================================

    Don't beat your self up you meant no harm and no harm was done.

    The person in your photo was filming illegaly, all cameramen on field level are suppose to wear an orange vest, where is his orange vest, I do not know who he is or where he comes from, but he appears to be a rule breaker.
  9. njpatsfan

    njpatsfan Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    As your biggest detractor, I have to say that was a great post.

    Your problem was not posting it initially - everyone makes mistakes - including the idiot sportswriter who got the sidelines wrong. Your sin was not pulling it down once it was obvious that it was wrong - and being told what was likely to happen to a post such as that on a legitimate pats website.

    I am reminded of the Churchill quote: "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

    Unfortunately, with the advent of the blogosphere, the truth doesn't even know where it's pant are.

    We all know you didn't do it on purpose to hurt the Pats. Actually, I think your post speaks volumes about the class of people that are Patriots fans.

    And we are obviously much more technically savvy than your average football fan.

    R

    p.s. I wouldn't delete the pic in the original thread, to aid in debunking, but you might want to edit it to put disclaimer on in.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2007
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Sorry, but the biggest problem is people like yourself who can't be bothered to actually READ what is said in posts and insist on jumping to conclusions. All Ursa said was that that is what he observed. That his opinion and his right to it. He later saw what others saw and took that into consideration. Unfortunately, after a certain amount of time you CAN'T edit posts. So he was out of luck.


    Particularly with people like yourself who go out of their way to take the picture as more than just someone's opinion. YOU are part of the problem. Not Ursa.

    After a few hours, you can't edit posts anymore.

    Ursa shouldn't have had to apologize. People like yourself, though, should, because of your negativity and your hapless blaming of people on things you don't understand.
  11. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited


    No harm no foul.


    Good for you! You get a golden star! Here!:bricks:
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Of course you are because your a hypocrite. Just like your stupid coach.

    Guy brings in Pats players and gets them to tell the signals, yet, when its done to him, he whines like a spoiled brat.

    The Jets won't get ANYTHING. If the punishment is a draft pick (the highest has a been a 3rd by Denver for something MUCH more egregious), then it goes to the league and disappears as if it never existed.
  13. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Then, per my previous post, you are an idiot. The guy was caught in the 1st quarter. The Jets sucked all on their own and weren't harmed in any way as to deserve compensation. Besides, it isn't fair to the Bills and Dolphins to give the Jets anything.
  14. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    ======================================

    I agree, the Jets do not deserve any compesation, the Jets sucked all on there own. It would be unfair to the rest of the league to compensate the Jets.

    Then again you are an idiot for thinking that the Pats would not profit from cheating.

    Not for nothing but they caught the guy as he was about to go into the Pats locker room at 1/2 time as he was about to deliver the goods. not the first 1/4.

    Get your facts straight.
  15. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    You may also believe in Leprechauns, UFOs and ghosts. That 'belief' does not mean they exist. I leave you with Fitzy's parting 3 initials.
  16. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    again the Jets don't get any compinsation at all they don't get rewarded for being snitches the draft pick jsut vanishes and as for the other thing every single site i have seen and every news report has him being busted in the First Quarter and even if it was the first half the game was still close.
  17. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    It was half time according to the Post I think it was, maybe I can find it.

    EDIT: According to Cimini, he was caught as he was heading to the lockerroom at half-tiime Clayton and Mortenson report early 1st quarter, so maybe you were right.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2007
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Actually, I think Ursa99 did a great service in posting that picture.

    It clearly shows that there were others illegally photographing (no vest?) with video cameras during the game. That guy, who was wearing Jet staff colors was pointing his camera at the Jets bench AT THAT MOMENT. Couldn't he have swerved around at any time?
  19. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    You are right Shmessy, I am surprised I have not heard more about this.
  20. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    You realize that, according the Cimini, BB said Rhodes couldn't even make his team? The guy has zero credibility.

    Do not trust any information coming out of NY. Heck, I'm simply not trusting any information period. The stuff coming out of NY is easily the silliest though.

    That's because everything being said right now is speculation, most of it with an interest in sensationalizing things.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  21. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Have the schools really gone that far downhill in the Bronx?
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  22. njpatsfan

    njpatsfan Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Have you been living under a rock ? The photo is pasted over every NFL and Sports fan website. It was referenced on WEEI. It was mentioned on FSN, and ESPN Radio. It's all the local sports stations here have been talking about. Every talking head with a web browser had the Patriots convicted before the facts were even known. Not to make ursa99 feel any worse, but in my opinion, this picture is the single biggest reason why this story has been blown so far out of proportion.

    Check out this thread over at JI for example - people are actually threatening the guys life - AND IN FACT HE WORKS FOR THE JETS !
    http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151112

    Pictures are powerful ways of communicating a message - and this one was a whopper. It wasn't hard (for me at least) to see how that photo could be used against us in the blogosphere.

    YOU need to go back and read the thread - obviously you didn't - (pot meet kettle, surprise, surprise) and check out what happened, and how this could have been avoided..

    Bravo for ursa99 for admitting his mistake. It's obvious to him - why isn't it to you ? You can say that "anyone can say anything they want" - but the bottom line is that we as fans especially need to be careful and responsible about what we say and show in our posts, lest something like this happen.

    As far as editing the post ..... it was discredited even before it was posted ... and you can always ask for mods to remove a thread or post. Something that you may have seen happen on this board before.

    R
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  23. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    I don't care what other imbeciles have done. I am talking about the fact that YOU over-reacted and didn't read what the guy said.



    So, because there are some friggin idiots over on the Jets board, you feel its ok for you to make false accusations when you, yourself, don't understand the situation. Got it.

    I read the thread. Nothing he did was wrong. He stated his opinion and then, later, retracted it. Unfortunately, he couldn't delete the picture because of the limited editing functions that the board has. That's not his fault. And you are ignorant for trashing him because he couldn't take it down.

    It was obvious to me when he admitted it in the thread initially. Why the hell should he get smeared by YOU because of a function that is out of his control. Only because of idiots did he have to go beyond what he said in his original post.

    Damn, you are WRONG. It wasn't discredited before it was posted. It couldn't have been discredited before it was posted because no one knew what sequence Ursa was referring to.

    Yes, the Mods could have, and probably should have removed the thread. Again, how is that Ursa's fault?
  24. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    BTW, NJPATSFAN, if you had stopped and thought for a minute about this, you'd have also thought about the fact that here was a guy, with a video camera on the JETS sidelines with no video vest on who happens to be a Jets employee... Hmm... I thought there was NO VIDEOING allowed on the sidelines?

    Sure looks like a double standard since that wasn't one of the sideline crew for the broadcast....
  25. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Hmmmmmmmm, interesting question isn't it. Wonder what was on that video tape. :rolleyes:
  26. ursa99

    ursa99 Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    FWIW, I did try and remove it but was unable to due to how the board is setup.

    I am amused by the fact that the guy I did show is video taping like crazy. If he is a Jets employee then THEY have some explaining to do.

    Once again sorry for the poor judgement and I hope we can all stop our infighting and focus it on the Chargers. Now isn't LT someone we can all go after?

    Ursa
  27. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Rename The Title Of This Thread To Evidence Jets Are Cheating!!!!
  28. mtbykr

    mtbykr Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Actually they are talking about it now on WEEI. He is a Jets employee and was using Jets credentials. So he was doing the exact same job on the jets sideline (for the jets) that the pats guy was on the pats sideline...except now we have cameragate on us
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  29. njpatsfan

    njpatsfan Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    Of course, if you had actually read the original thread, you would have seen that coodhardfootballfacts.com, in their debunking of the photo, had said that a Patriots beat writer had emailed in and identified him. If a Patriots beat writer identifies him as one of the media - then I'm pretty sure that's about as good as it gets.

    Unless you think CHFF is in on the conspiracy.

    You're about a day late and a couple hundred dollars short.

    R
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  30. PatsWorldChamps

    PatsWorldChamps Rookie

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    Re: Sticky Please: "Smoking gun" photo discredited

    what did i miss? why would you be sorry? you exposed the jets as cheaters!

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