Steve Mariucci on Cassel's trade value

[Deus Irae]

How does this sound? I have already mentioned this blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), their second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and is only 29 and Gonzales (96 catches and a decent CAP with three years remaining).

The #34 pick is like a first rounder only way less dollars. Use that to select at #34 either Clay Matthews who can play ILB and is a top ST player (maybe the best of all this years draft S.Cal LBs in the pros it has been stated). He is 6'3" 247 and is faster than Cushing. Or Nic Harris from Oklahoma as a SS at 6'3" and 233 who runs a 4.5 and is an exceptional cover man. He can play in the box like Harrison. He has a 4.6 body fat measurement which is lowest on the Sooners. He is also an excellent citizen. Or perhaps Sean Smith of Utah who is 6'1" and 215 and can play CB and S. Or ....as an impact player, Percy Harvin who could be a game breaker if we do not want off of Gator WRs.

Now what to do with the #3 pick? Swap it to Carolina for Peppers. They do not have a first round pick. They have to use the Tag for top OT Jordon Gross.

Peppers wants out to go to a 3-4 team. Carolina can stay at #3 or milk a few added picks.

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. They get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area).

I would still make one FA move and go for CB Dunta Robinson who is now back healthy and only 27. He also protects us in 2010 if Hobbs leaves.

Summary:
O gets TE Gonzales and RB LJ (perhaps Harvin at #34)
D gets OLB Peppers, CB Robinson, ILB Matthews or SS Harris

What we get in the next few picks are gravy. I like G Duke Robinson from OU, DE/OLB Paul Kruger from Utah (could be a Jared Allen type and the same size) and James Casey TE from Rice as in a Dallas Clark type HB/TE who had 104 catches last season. He has also played S and DE. He is smart, mature and a Pats type player. These should all be available in round two for our other two second rounders. I would put Barwin in there but he should be gone.

I would be a happy man with these pick ups.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

? On the picture connotation of my WA trade. That little guy must be a Pats CB or is it "quick twitch" Tatoo.
DW Toys

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

sounds like he consulted with me

:deadhorse:

 

[PittPatriot]

excellent reply......don't forget Bishop also!

I don't think Bishop was drafted by BB...he is a product of the Pete Carroll /Grier regime. The next time we draft a QB in the 7th round, we can openly ask "will he be a Mattie or a Mike?"

 

[RayClay]

Marriuchi.......

Who the hell has two or three top quarterbacks? A lot of teams don't have any.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Marriuchi.......

Who the hell has two or three top quarterbacks? A lot of teams don't have any.

This is how I feel!! but I love Merriuchi. I love the Pats, just like us all, so I devote all of my time to ways to make them better but Merriuchi simply looks at a situation and makes an quick educated guess. As RayClay pointed out it is a great thing to have two good QB's but two of the top 10 or 15 simply will cost too much this year for us. Heck as pointed out throughout this thread a lot of teams do not even have one. Cassel and Brady will be too expensive and we could use the money to get younger and improved on defense. Cassel deserves to start for some team in the NFL and we have an asset at the top of his game and value we need to move him. We drafted a QB in the third round last year because we thought we had nothing behind Brady and everyone wanted to cut Cassel. Even better when Cassel was struggling early some people were calling for O'Connell.

Ask PFW: Cassel concerns

Now 7 months later we can get a definite first rounder plus something else BB can dream up. Can anyone seriously tell me that Detroit, KC, Oak, SF, Jets, Bears, Tampa, Vikings or even Seattle or St. Louis would not give their first round pick for a top 15 QB???

I just hope we can move him shortly after franchising him in order to be active in FA.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I don't think Bishop was drafted by BB...he is a product of the Pete Carroll /Grier regime. The next time we draft a QB in the 7th round, we can openly ask "will he be a Mattie or a Mike?"

Bishop is still up here in the CFL and with that rocket arm! He was the backup to Damion Allan the bother to Marcus then when he retired Toronto went out and got the CFL MVP Kerry Joseph and traded Bishop halfway through the year to the middle of now where somewhere above North Dakota

 

[RayClay]

This is how I feel!! but I love Merriuchi. I love the Pats, just like us all, so I devote all of my time to ways to make them better but Merriuchi simply looks at a situation and makes an quick educated guess. As RayClay pointed out it is a great thing to have two good QB's but two of the top 10 or 15 simply will cost too much this year for us. Heck as pointed out throughout this thread a lot of teams do not even have one. Cassel and Brady will be too expensive and we could use the money to get younger and improved on defense. Cassel deserves to start for some team in the NFL and we have an asset at the top of his game and value we need to move him. We drafted a QB in the third round last year because we thought we had nothing behind Brady and everyone wanted to cut Cassel. Even better when Cassel was struggling early some people were calling for O'Connell.

Ask PFW: Cassel concerns

Now 7 months later we can get a definite first rounder plus something else BB can dream up. Can anyone seriously tell me that Detroit, KC, Oak, SF, Jets, Bears, Tampa, Vikings or even Seattle or St. Louis would not give their first round pick for a top 15 QB???

I just hope we can move him shortly after franchising him in order to be active in FA.

I was all for giving Cassel a long term contract at what I thought were reasonable terms midway through the season. He simply made no missteps and steady progress the second half causing me to agree now with posters I thought were premature then.

His performance has made him the right guy at the right time to make a lot of money, no doubt about it. We have to tag and trade him if we can. We simply can't afford to pay his market value to sit.

The Pats have two other young QBs and could pick up someone to hold a clipboard if they deem it necessary. Cassel could be an all time great, average, or he could have peaked - nobody knows. We do know we have an all time great in Brady and our team knows how to patiently groom quarterbacks, it seems.

 

[DarrylS]

No matter what the argument, still do not see us moving into the top five for Cassell. Such a move would upset the salary structure of this team.. what I do see is a couple of future seconds and a possible third.. to just take a three and assume that we can turn it into something else is a lot of gambling.. would prefer is a high 1st, low second, high second for the next three years. A lot could be done with this.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

I'm still not sure that we get a #1 for Cassel. Finding a trading partner for him is the tough part. Detroit is the perfect spot for him, except who wants to go to Detroit? KC at #3 is too high. If Pioli can trade down and get a later pick in the teens maybe, but I don't know if he could sell Cassel to the fans at #3. San Fran would be nice, but they don't even have a Offensive Coordinator yet.

Tampa would be perfect for his talents. They play a West Coast type of offense, short quick passes and medium range stuff. He would thrive in that situation, but they already have 15 QB's coming to camp. Minnesota still looks like to perfect landing place for him, they are a contending team who is in desperate need of a QB. They have a great running game, a good O line and a great defense. In reality all they need is a real QB, so that means that it makes too much sense.

Cassel will not be here in March, he will have been traded by then but he will also have to OK the trade, if he doesn't like the destination he can refuse to sign a contract and put the kabosh on the whole thing. My guess is if the Pats were offered a couple of two's and a three they would have to consider it. Especially if the trading partner was a Detroit or KC.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

How does this sound? I have already mentioned this blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), their second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and is only 29 and Gonzales (96 catches and a decent CAP with three years remaining).

The #34 pick is like a first rounder only way less dollars. Use that to select at #34 either Clay Matthews who can play ILB and is a top ST player (maybe the best of all this years draft S.Cal LBs in the pros it has been stated). He is 6'3" 247 and is faster than Cushing. Or Nic Harris from Oklahoma as a SS at 6'3" and 233 who runs a 4.5 and is an exceptional cover man. He can play in the box like Harrison. He has a 4.6 body fat measurement which is lowest on the Sooners. He is also an excellent citizen. Or perhaps Sean Smith of Utah who is 6'1" and 215 and can play CB and S. Or ....as an impact player, Percy Harvin who could be a game breaker if we do not want off of Gator WRs.

Now what to do with the #3 pick? Swap it to Carolina for Peppers. They do not have a first round pick. They have to use the Tag for top OT Jordon Gross.

Peppers wants out to go to a 3-4 team. Carolina can stay at #3 or milk a few added picks.

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. They get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area).

I would still make one FA move and go for CB Dunta Robinson who is now back healthy and only 27. He also protects us in 2010 if Hobbs leaves.

Summary:
O gets TE Gonzales and RB LJ (perhaps Harvin at #34)
D gets OLB Peppers, CB Robinson, ILB Matthews or SS Harris

What we get in the next few picks are gravy. I like G Duke Robinson from OU, DE/OLB Paul Kruger from Utah (could be a Jared Allen type and the same size) and James Casey TE from Rice as in a Dallas Clark type HB/TE who had 104 catches last season. He has also played S and DE. He is smart, mature and a Pats type player. These should all be available in round two for our other two second rounders. I would put Barwin in there but he should be gone.

I would be a happy man with these pick ups.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder.
DW Toys

DW, no offense but that has got to be one of the worst proposals I have read.

Cassell, Maroney, Thomas and our #23 for LJ, Gonzalez, #3 and #34.

A turd RB, who not only has attitude problems, but also can't keep himself from beating up women? And a nearly washed up TE in the twilight of his HOF career? Please no!!!

Then draft Duke Robinson? I just cannot see him pulling and getting out in front of Welker on a screen play. He's a mauler for sure, and belongs on a team that uses a power running game.

Are you sure you shouldn't change you screen name to DW Millen?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Albert Breer on NEST last night said that what he is hearing around the SB is that Matt's value is a low 1st rounded/high 2nd and a 4th or 5th.

Quite honestly this falls into what my thinking has been all along. Those who think we will get a top 10 1st rounder and more are going to be disappointed, I think.

We'll see how it plays out.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Albert Breer on NEST last night said that what he is hearing around the SB is that Matt's value is a low 1st rounded/high 2nd and a 4th or 5th.

Quite honestly this falls into what my thinking has been all along. Those who think we will get a top 10 1st rounder and more are going to be disappointed, I think.

We'll see how it plays out.

If Matt Shwaub was good enough to get two second rounders then I think that asking for a first and third from Matt C is not too much. QB is so important and any team who was going to take a QB in the first round might as well get a QB that has experience and has won in the league.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

Although I'm hoping for a first rounder (in either 2009 or 2010 draft), I believe that we'll see either 1 (with first round position swap), 2 or 3 picks total for MC this year:

either a high 2009 second rounder with a high 2009 fourth rounder and a second or third next year OR

a low 2009 first rounder with a low 2009 third rounder OR

a low 2009 first rounder with a third 2010 third rounder OR

a swap of #1 picks in 2009 (moving up some spots) and then 2009/2010second through fourth round picks to get proper value (TB would have to give up a lot more than SF here for the swap).

Again... I LOVE some of the thoughts that are out there... but I really see Minn's 22 pick and KC's 34 pick as the most likely starting point scenarios.... I think that SF's 10/43 picks, TB's 19 pick, or DET's 20/33 picks as the next likely starting point scenarios... BUT part of this is MC and what he wants/needs, too. The Pats FO must be careful here... I think that MC will WANT to sign with either Minn or KC (now that Pioli is there) AND I think that they have really good "starting point" trade options with us NOW... I think that he COULD want to sign with SF, but a LOT is up in the air over there right now and (in my humble opinion) they'll have more to muck up the trade with (i.e. how much is the #10 for # 23 swap worth compared to MC and can a rebuilding team part with a moderately high #3 (74th pick) or do a conditional #2 in 2010 for MC?). TB has a trillion QBs... and although we all see MC as a good fit there... I'm not sure that he (or they) would... and if I'm MC, I don't want to go to DET... even with Calvin Johnson there... just me, though.

Again, just my two pennies on this exciting proposition... I think he's traded.. but I'm trying to keep my expectations realistic... BUT, if we somehow got more than ATL got for MS... WOW, I would be through the roof!

 

[patchick]

Albert Breer on NEST last night said that what he is hearing around the SB is that Matt's value is a low 1st rounded/high 2nd and a 4th or 5th.

Thanks, I trust Breer as much as anybody. I could easily see KC's 2nd + a conditional pick for 2010. Personally, though, I think Tampa & Minnesota would be making a big mistake passing on him.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Sayeth he:



I wouldn't be surprised if that other good QB turns out to be O'Connell. . . .

Neither would I ...But not in 2009. More likely in 2010 or 2011. He just needs more grooming and seasoning.


In light of the disaster at the QB position in the draft, Beoli were masterful in drafting a QB in the third round who would have been a 1st round pick in this draft. I was unhappy as aI wanted them to pick Red Bryant from A&M as a great backup NT, and he was just sitting there.

There is only one QB of any consequence, and that is Matt Stafford. His triangle numbers are OK, but he completes only 57% of his passes despite having an All American WR to throw to. Bad karma....

In a game I saw, every pass he threw required the receiver to make adjustments because the ball was not quite on target. And never anywhere near real accuracy, like this shoulder or that shoulder as Tom and Matt do. That meant little YAC. In a normal year he would go at the end of the third round.

Guess where Kevin O'Connel was picked?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Hard to tell what the Patriots will get for Cassel. Weird things have happened in the NFL, but I can't believe they won't trade him - his value might never be higher. So in that respect, I think Mariucci's instinct is off.

There are soooo many crazy GMs out there that I'd be surprised if there ISN'T a bidding war of some kind.

I know I am the minority, but I agree with some pretty good people. Marriucci says keep him and more than a 1st if you trade. Jaws said if you trade him 1st and a second and a third or two firsts...

The Patriots may be, (actually ARE!) the odds on Las Vegas favorite for the Superbowl in 2009. In that case you keep Cassel at the franchise price; and trade him next season when KO'C is ready; and Brady is fully and absolutely healthy...

 

[AzPatsFan]

How does this sound? I have already mentioned this blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), their second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and is only 29 and Gonzales (96 catches and a decent CAP with three years remaining).

The #34 pick is like a first rounder only way less dollars. Use that to select at #34 either Clay Matthews who can play ILB and is a top ST player (maybe the best of all this years draft S.Cal LBs in the pros it has been stated). He is 6'3" 247 and is faster than Cushing. Or Nic Harris from Oklahoma as a SS at 6'3" and 233 who runs a 4.5 and is an exceptional cover man. He can play in the box like Harrison. He has a 4.6 body fat measurement which is lowest on the Sooners. He is also an excellent citizen. Or perhaps Sean Smith of Utah who is 6'1" and 215 and can play CB and S. Or ....as an impact player, Percy Harvin who could be a game breaker if we do not want off of Gator WRs.

Now what to do with the #3 pick? Swap it to Carolina for Peppers. They do not have a first round pick. They have to use the Tag for top OT Jordon Gross.

Peppers wants out to go to a 3-4 team. Carolina can stay at #3 or milk a few added picks.

K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. They get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area).

I would still make one FA move and go for CB Dunta Robinson who is now back healthy and only 27. He also protects us in 2010 if Hobbs leaves.

Summary:
O gets TE Gonzales and RB LJ (perhaps Harvin at #34)
D gets OLB Peppers, CB Robinson, ILB Matthews or SS Harris

What we get in the next few picks are gravy. I like G Duke Robinson from OU, DE/OLB Paul Kruger from Utah (could be a Jared Allen type and the same size) and James Casey TE from Rice as in a Dallas Clark type HB/TE who had 104 catches last season. He has also played S and DE. He is smart, mature and a Pats type player. These should all be available in round two for our other two second rounders. I would put Barwin in there but he should be gone.

I would be a happy man with these pick ups.

So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder.
DW Toys

DW,

Nic Harris is way too slow but a fine college player. And has poor hips. That 4.5 is more like 4.65. Its also why he was practicing at OLB, in the Senior bowl. What makes yiou think Peppers would be a fit for the Pats OLB position? Besides Peppers would command big bucks. How about signing SeyMonsta or Wilfork instead?

The TEs are not getting much production. Only 30 Receptions?, Is that bad? It might be bad, on a cursory look, but not because they are not talented. It is because two great players are taking all the room out of their routes. Welker and Faulk combined for 150 catches. All of them are in prime TE territory. In those circumstances 30 catches is fine production; and a hidden, untapped resource, should one get hurt.

I don't want head cases. We have too many RBs now. LJ would surely start complaining about his number of carries.

Sean Smith CB from Utah, MIGHT be a S. He plays CB and has great speed; that is usually an indication he isn't physical, or smart enough for S.

Sorry none of this flies, IMHO.

 

[AzPatsFan]

This is how I feel!! but I love Merriuchi. I love the Pats, just like us all, so I devote all of my time to ways to make them better but Merriuchi simply looks at a situation and makes an quick educated guess. As RayClay pointed out it is a great thing to have two good QB's but two of the top 10 or 15 simply will cost too much this year for us. Heck as pointed out throughout this thread a lot of teams do not even have one. Cassel and Brady will be too expensive and we could use the money to get younger and improved on defense. Cassel deserves to start for some team in the NFL and we have an asset at the top of his game and value we need to move him. We drafted a QB in the third round last year because we thought we had nothing behind Brady and everyone wanted to cut Cassel. Even better when Cassel was struggling early some people were calling for O'Connell.

Ask PFW: Cassel concerns

Now 7 months later we can get a definite first rounder plus something else BB can dream up. Can anyone seriously tell me that Detroit, KC, Oak, SF, Jets, Bears, Tampa, Vikings or even Seattle or St. Louis would not give their first round pick for a top 15 QB???

I just hope we can move him shortly after franchising him in order to be active in FA.

Why? Why do you want to be active in FA? Name me a single position that has a glaring hole without at least an average NFL player as the starter. Then name a position that doesn't have at least an average starter quality player as the reserve.

Having gone through the roster that way; and named only the QB position, without MC there; please tell me why don't you want QB depth?

 

[WhoaDirty]

Bishop is still up here in the CFL and with that rocket arm! He was the backup to Damion Allan the bother to Marcus then when he retired Toronto went out and got the CFL MVP Kerry Joseph and traded Bishop halfway through the year to the middle of now where somewhere above North Dakota

No dude, he got cut within days of his 5 turnover performance in the playoffs versus the Lions - Good Riddance!