Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by khayos, Oct 21, 2011.
Isn't that the basis of modern capitalism???
Marketing something that makes a profit....
Interesting tid bit on Steve Jobs..
The new real reason Steve Jobs never had license plates | Technically Incorrect - CNET News
Its a perception, not reality. As for styling, if the iphone is so stylish (I don't know how a phone can be all that stylish but whatever) then why are they suing Samsung for making phones that look too much like iphones.
What is it then? My wife has a pair of $200 jeans, do you really think they are better then a $60 pair of gap jeans, or has she just fallen for marketing spin.
The fact that you people are talking about the "styling" of a mobile phone says it all. They are all thin little rectangular boxes with screens that mostly sit in your pocket or are covered by your hand. The idea that someone would pay more for a mobile phone over another because of styling is pretty stupid.
I think an aspect of BSR's argument (and I am in no way attempting to speak for the poster is) for many people who buy an iPhone (whether it is "overpriced" is neither here nor there) is that you are paying for styling and ease of use. Not that other OS's are hard to use (cuz they arent) but with Apple that is what you HAVE to be paying for because from a technology standpoint, Android for instance passed iOS by 2 years ago. All the features that are "new and shiny" in iOS, were in Android going back to Eclair (2.0), so you arent paying for "state of the art" features when you buy and iPhone. You are in fact paying for the Apple brand.
Again, I dont hate Apple (i use a Macbook Pro at home). I do however think they spend too much time and money suing people who have similar things in their phones, and not enough on improve what was a world altering experience (iOS) and innovation.
It's the fact that the iPhone is currently the best mobile phone on the market.
Actualy I'm not the one who brought up styling. But there's no shame in admitting that a phone's style (which includes ease of use, what type of keyboard, etc) is a legitimate factor when deciding what phone to buy.
We're talking about cell phones here. Of course ease of use and having an overall user-friendly experience is going to be a factor. And it darn well should be.
You're clearly projecting what's important / unimportant to you onto what you feel should be important / unimportant to everybody else.
edit: an article quoted above mentions Jobs's SL55s. Are those "overpriced"? After all, you're never going to go as fast as that car potentially can go, and is styling really important in a car? All a car is meant to do is get you from point A to point B.
What is "better"?
Does she think she looks better in them? Are they more comfortable for her?
Or is "better" simply durability?
Wolf - forgive my lack of clarity in my remark. Let me explain what I mean by "ease of use".
Recently, while having this exact convo with a buddie (iOS vs Android) he explained to me that "I like iOS better because it is easier to use; look I get to my homescreen and all of my apps are listed right there" bascially referring to the GUI iOS uses. He explained that my Android phone was "not as easy" to use because in Android I have an App drawer rather than having all of my apps on my home screen. As a result of this, my homescreens (5 of them) include things like widgets, shortcuts to my calendar, shortcuts to my favorite contacts, a widget with my TXT messages, and my system preferences (root/unroot/overclock/under clock), weather, quick notes etc.
There is nothing hard about Android compared to iOS, but what makes it "hard" is that the GUI in Android is yours to build, while in iOS; Wolf's iPhone looks identical to Chico's who looks the same as HD's (the only difference would be what apps you have downloaded). Even jailbreaking your iPhone still doesnt allow you to build your own homescreens. You still are working in a world of app lists (ie the iOS GUI).
So yes to your point, ease of use is hugely important. But many people say it is "easier" to have the iOS GUI (all apps on your screen) vs having your screens to be filled with the things you do most on your phone (which is basically a computer). "Easier" isnt the right word for the argument. I dont know what the right word is. But it is the difference in GUI which "scares" iPhone people when they look at an Android phone.
"What are these widgets on your homescreen? Where are your apps? I am so confused" (this is what my buddy said, does not reflect any poster here's statements)
It really isn't. There still isn't even a 4G iphone.
Of course it's overpriced and by no means am I advocating that people should never indulge themselves to buy overpriced items. But that simple fact that you are willing to pay for that item doesn't negate the fact that its overpriced.
I'm not familiar with Androids -- not a tech guy -- so here are my questions as relate to ease of use.
1) going back to my mother example -- b/c I think you brought up mothers, partly as a joke, but my mother is actually a good example -- if my mother were handed an android and given less than a minute of instruction, would she understand how to use it?
2) I'm not a techie, though I can use computers, software, etc. more easily than a lot of people I know once I have some basic familiarity with the device in question. But there have also been times when people handed me their phones in the past and I couldn't even figure out how to make a call with it. Given that ( ), if I were to be handed an android without any instructions, could I use it and all its functions without any instruction at all? Because that's what initially drew me to the iPhone. I found it extremely intuitive.
And one other point -- there's something to be said for the installed base when it comes to a tech-related product, especially for the many people who are not particularly tech-savvy. I was far from an early adopter of the iPhone, and I'm not an "Apple guy." My phone is my first/only apple product, I was late on the bandwagon and I haven't upgraded once. But when I did buy it, the installed base, along with reviews, gave me some confidence that it was a decent product, that it would continue to be supported for years and that, if I ever had questions, it would be easy to ask a friend.
The reality is it that the major difference is that they say "Seven for all Mankind" on the back of them. The fact that people are justifying the price of the iphone by saying it is more stylish, easy to use, and the best phone is about the same as buying for the iphone label. People buy iphones because they are iphones and not necessarily because they have done the research.
As I said, you're projecting what's valuable to you onto what's valuable to others.
I'm assuming you're referring to the SL55 now. You may not care about it, but many people care about performance in a car. many people care about handling. Many people care about styling. many people care about brands -- for reasons that are clearly legitimate and for reasons that may be described as superficial.
You may want a car to be simply about point A / point B, but reality is that it's not simply about that.
In the case of your wife, then, I'd agree that she's being superficial. But most women I know care about how their jeans look and feel. Brand matters, yes, but they generally won't buy a designer brand that they don't think is flattering on them.
I agree. Not everybody wants to spend hours researching every purchase they make, particularly minor ones like a phone.
That doesn't mean the product isn't easy to use, though, or that it's overpriced.
btw, one thing I'll throw in re my own experience w/the iPhone. It certainly wasn't a reason for buying it, but it is one reason I'd stay with the iphone -- this thing has taken a beating without any problems. maybe other phones currently on the market would be just as durable, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case.
I've bought sports cars, and luxury cars in the past and I've bought practical cars as well. In those cases where I have purchased luxury, I've gone into it understanding that I was overpaying for name/performance/status whatever. I think where many consumers go wrong is when they don't understand what they are paying for. In the case of an iphone, you are overpaying for a phone because you are paying for other things like the prestige of having an iphone and other features.
And let me be clear the iphone is a great phone, but the reality is that most people don't really need as high end a phone just as most people don't need a luxury phone. These people are overpaying for iphones when they could get all the same features, including ease of use, with a cheaper phone.
I agree with your statement that I bolded.
I still don't agree with the assessment that paying for luxury, performance, status, etc., must be "overpaying." You mention "need" in your 2nd paragraph. Paying for something one doesn't "need" isn't the same as overpaying.
If I go golfing, I'm not "overpaying" if I choose Pebble over my local muni simply because they're both golf. If I go to Pebble and stay at the lodge instead of a local motel, I'm not overpaying simply because they're both places to sleep.
Back to the iPhone, let's take your premise as fact, that one can get all the same features for less $. How long would it take me to research that, reach a tentative conclusion, and then test my tentative conclusion before making the purchase? People value their time differently, but for me, that sounds like at least a few hours and a few hours isn't worth saving a $100 to me -- the value of that time, added to the cost of the phone, would exceed the cost of the iPhone.
1. She could yes. I am a "techy" so I have to take that hat off. Be that as it may an example for you. My mother is about as tech-illiterate as a person can be. Up until last Xmas she was using a Samsung flip "feature phone". Best Buy was running a special where a new Smartphone was free. So we went and grabbed her the HTC Droid Incredible. She was basically immediately able to make a call, surf the web and send texts messages. She doesn't use 90 percent of what a Smartphone can do and I readily admit that it is a "nuke on an ant hill" situation. But to answer your question, a vanilla Android experience, or even a OEM Skin Experience (such as Sense on the HTC) are out of the box "easy to use".
2. Yes, I think with 1 minute instruction/overview you could figure it out. Now having said that, if I handed you my phone, which is not "out of box" setup. It could take you maybe 2 mins to figure it out (and that is a big maybe).
3. Valid point. I would actually go as far as to say the iPhone makes far more sense for someone who wants a really nice Smartphone but is not a techy. Android from my seat is more geared for the techy types. I currently use the Moto Droid X but will be upgrading to either the Moto Droid Razr or the Samsung Galaxy Nexus next month. Moto build quality, from the steel chassis up to the Gorilla Glass screen is just as robust as an iPhone. HTC and Samsung do make phones which are more "plasticy"; but no means less strong. Moto just build tanks by contrast.
4. I think the iPhone is a great product. Its when you compare features, OS vs OS, where iPhone losses me (as a techy). Anytime I have had the Android v iPhone debate, iPhone users are "its better cuz its apple" because on a spec by spec, feature by feature comparison, the iPhone just cant compete. The iPhone does win for the Retina display, but all these people who are like "well I have Siri!" I say, well I had the functionality out of box 2 Android OS versions ago (2008).
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