Steelers extend Roethlisberger with 8-year, $102M ($36M guaranteed) deal [merged]

[bradmahn]

That manage the run first comment could be said just as well for Tom Brady and the Patriots. They were an establish the run team for a long time while they were winning, this "chuck it around" stuff is kind of new. Pretty sure they always had a very solid and well established running attack during their SB Wins.

Brady "managed the game" in 2001 and 2001 only. They didn't ask much from him because he was a second year player starting for his first time, but even then they ran the ball less than they threw. The only year the Patriots had more running attempts than passing was '04, and even then it was a 47% to 53% split, nearly complete balance.

In '04 and '05, the Steelers ran the ball on over 60% of their offensive plays.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

Sorry, I just don't see it. I know Ben can perform in flashes, that is why his QB rating stays fairly high. And he is certainly an improvement over the likes of Slash. But he remains maddeningly inconsistent and prone to high highs like the playoff run and low lows like the Superbowl performance or his struggles against the JAGS last season. Sometimes he even appears to have played well then, statistically or in small game windows. But he is a gunslinger at heart, maybe that is what some love about him - as do some fans in Texas and Wisconcin. He is not a student of the game, and he's a handful to coach. Cowher managed him brilliantly for the first two seasons, but behind the scenes Ben was increasingly chomping at the bit to be something he isn't. I think that is why Cowher left when he did. He got one for the thumb, and he knew the Rooney's would commit to the QB irrespective of some issues the coaches were having with him.

Not sure if Timlin learned the lesson last year, but he seemed to have some eye opening moments on the sidelines over the course of a rookie season that started out with guns a blazing. It's gonna be Ben's way or the highway for his new coaches for the next several seasons as the Steelers live (or die) on the arm of a gunslinger. UNLESS THEY GET BACK TO MANAGING A RUN FIRST OFFENSE THAT PASSES SITUATIONALLY AND STRATEGICALLY AND ASSEMBLING A DEFENSE THAT WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. But then Timlin won't likely feel pressure from the top as the Rooney's on some level likely see it for what it is. And with that thumb ring came contentment to just remain competitive for the time being. Another reason Cowher likely left.

I think Hinds Ward knows what Cowher knew too...

You're pretty good at putting others in their places, Mo, like the guy you slammed for not knowing about cap numbers. Now it's your turn to get schooled for all to see.

Your portrayal of Ben as a stereotypical "gunslinger" type is proved wrong by none other than the Cold, Hard Football Facts. Now for the reality:

Roethlisberger’s 87.9 passer rating stands as the ninth-best in NFL history – one spot behind Brady (88.4) and one spot ahead of Drew Brees (87.5), two quarterbacks you routinely hear mentioned among the game’s elite.

More importantly, though, is Roethlisberger’s amazing 8.25 yards per pass attempt. Topping 8.0 YPA is virtually unheard of at the pro level.

In fact, his amazing 8.25 YPA stands as third-best in NFL history, behind just two of the greatest quarterbacks ever: Otto Graham and Sid Luckman. These are no ordinary Ottos and Sids who Roethlisberger finds himself among. In 18 years of NFL play, Graham and Luckman appeared in 11 championship games, winning seven of those title tilts.

Just five quarterbacks in NFL history topped 8.0 YPA for their career. There are no Swatches on this list of NFL record-setters, just the sweet dulcet chimes of Rolexes, Bulovas and Big Bens.

TOP 5 ALL-TIME PASSING YPA LEADERS
Player (Years) Yards Att. YPA Title Games Titles
Otto Graham (1950-55) 13,499 1,565 8.63 6 3
Sid Luckman (1939-50) 14,686 1,744 8.42 5 4
Ben Roethlisberger (2004-present) 8,519 1,032 8.25 1 1
Kurt Warner (1998-present) 20,591 2,508 8.21 2 1
Norm Van Brocklin (1949-60) 23,611 2,895 8.16 5 2

- Among players with a minimum 40 NFL games and 1,000 pass attempts
- Bold indicates HOF quarterbacks

To put this list in prosaic terms, among all the quarterbacks who have taken a snap in the NFL over the past 50 years, none have carved up opposing defenses with their passing arm as efficiently as Roethlisberger.

"Maddeningly inconsistent" huh? You wish.

Congratulations, you are now officially schooled and tooled. You have, no doubt, confused Ben's mobility and ability to create plays on the run, with recklessness and inefficiency. The hallmark of the lesser-sophisticated football observer. (Note: Ben only added to these numbers with 07's 104 rating, 32 to 11 TD-to-INT performance. Continuing on as one of the most efficient passers in NFL History.)

Likewise, your assessment of the Cowher-Ben situation is hopelessly wrong. Note the stats of both Roethlisberger and the Steeler run game during their championship playoff run:

Quarterback: Roethlisberger (2385 passing yards, 17 TD, 9 INT) had an outstanding regular season, posting a 98.6 passer rating and generally displaying the presence that led him to be named 2004 NFL Rookie of the Year, but reserved his best play for the postseason. "Big Ben" is 49-of-72 passing (68.1 percent) for 680 yards with seven touchdowns and just one interception through three 2005 playoff games, for a lusty passer rating of 124.8.

Running Backs: The Steelers running game has struggled somewhat during the playoffs, with both Willie Parker (1202 rushing yards, 18 receptions, 5 TD), and Jerome Bettis (368 rushing yards, 9 TD) averaging well under four yards per carry. Parker has just 132 yards on 47 carries (2.8 avg.) on the ground...

As you can see, Pittsburgh's run "support" was laughable; clearly it was Roethlisberger's incredibly EFFICIENT passing that carried the Steelers to Detroit. IN FACT, Roethlisberger was the QB who finally did what no other Steeler QB under Cowher ever did: overcome the inevitable Steeler run-game fizzle that always occured in the playoffs. Far from needing Cowher, it was Cowher who desperately needed Ben to gain a ring. If not for Roethlisberger, Cowher retires ringless. It's that simple.

Far from "managing" Ben, it was in fact Ben's ability to break free from the Cowher "run first, play not to lose" scheme that propelled the Steelers to a ring. You have gotten the situation 180 degrees wrong.

That's why your words...

UNLESS THEY GET BACK TO MANAGING A RUN FIRST OFFENSE THAT PASSES SITUATIONALLY AND STRATEGICALLY AND ASSEMBLING A DEFENSE THAT WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

... are simply not true. The Steelers won a championship doing exactly the OPPOSITE -- they rode their QB's arm to the Super Bowl, not their running backs' legs. The numbers prove it beyond all doubt.

The Rooneys "committed" the big money to Roethlisberger because they know in fact this is true. Roethlisberger, not Cowher (or Bettis for that matter) is the factor that gives the Steelers a chance to truly compete for a championship. Because, as the first set of stats show, Roethlisberger is in FACT one of the most efficient QBs to ever play the game. This, combined with on-the-move playmaking ability that blows away any other QB in the game, is why they invested the big bucks.

Lesson over. Your tuition bill will be arriving shortly.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

Brady "managed the game" in 2001 and 2001 only. They didn't ask much from him because he was a second year player starting for his first time, but even then they ran the ball less than they threw. The only year the Patriots had more running attempts than passing was '04, and even then it was a 47% to 53% split, nearly complete balance.

In '04 and '05, the Steelers ran the ball on over 60% of their offensive plays.

Be sure you read my above post, especially the playoff numbers breakdown. By the way, number of attempts means nothing -- it's the production you get or don't get from the backs.

Pats fans suffer from the wishful delusion that only their QB can carry a team to a championship. Which was pretty much proven false this last season.

 

[dhamz]

You can spin numbers any way you want.

What I know is that with the season on the line - 3rd and 7 against Jax. A first down and you get the win, the Steelers coaches were afraid to let their now $100m man throw the ball.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

You can spin numbers any way you want.

What I know is that with the season on the line - 3rd and 7 against Jax. A first down and you get the win, the Steelers coaches were afraid to let their now $100m man throw the ball.

And that's HIS fault, their timidity? Fact is, he delivered the lead at the end of the game, and the defense failed to hold.

I "spun" nothing... I posted plain and simple numbers. That plainly debunk the myths spewed out by the other poster.

 

[bradmahn]

Be sure you read my above post, especially the playoff numbers breakdown. By the way, number of attempts means nothing -- it's the production you get or don't get from the backs.

Pats fans suffer from the wishful delusion that only their QB can carry a team to a championship. Which was pretty much proven false this last season.

Ben had a very good three game stretch against the Bengals, Colts and Broncos, and was a huge factor in those victories (as were the Steelers defense and the play calling, which used a lot of gadget plays and the like to help open up the offense), but how has Roethlisberger faired in the four other playoff games he's played in? 69/117 (59%) for 867 (216.75 per) 5 TDs 10 INTs

Prior to and during this season I also went back and looked at his numbers (and the outcomes of the games) when the team has needed him to throw more than 29-30 times. His individual numbers and the team's record were dreadful when the burden of the team was placed on his shoulders.

Ben is a good quarterback and I gained a lot of respect for him after the game against the Patriots this past season. He is capable of keeping plays alive and can hurt you with his arm or his feet and a big part of his game is his mobility. That being said, he is not a dynamic, $100 million dollar quarterback who can take over a game. He is at his best when his attempts are limited and is most efficient when that happens.

And by the way, attempts are the most important thing when looking at (and determining) how a team is calling their plays, which was the point of contention in my original post.

You carry this delusion that you know more than everyone else when this thread has pretty much proven that false.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Ben is a good QB. But no player (including Tom Brady) is worth 100 million dollars. That is insane.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You're pretty good at putting others in their places, Mo, like the guy you slammed for not knowing about cap numbers. Now it's your turn to get schooled for all to see.

Your portrayal of Ben as a stereotypical "gunslinger" type is proved wrong by none other than the Cold, Hard Football Facts. Now for the reality:


Congratulations, you are now officially schooled and tooled. You have, no doubt, confused Ben's mobility and ability to create plays on the run, with recklessness and inefficiency. The hallmark of the lesser-sophisticated football observer. (Note: Ben only added to these numbers with 07's 104 rating, 32 to 11 TD-to-INT performance. Continuing on as one of the most efficient passers in NFL History.)

Likewise, your assessment of the Cowher-Ben situation is hopelessly wrong. Note the stats of both Roethlisberger and the Steeler run game during their championship playoff run:


As you can see, Pittsburgh's run "support" was laughable; clearly it was Roethlisberger's incredibly EFFICIENT passing that carried the Steelers to Detroit. IN FACT, Roethlisberger was the QB who finally did what no other Steeler QB under Cowher ever did: overcome the inevitable Steeler run-game fizzle that always occured in the playoffs. Far from needing Cowher, it was Cowher who desperately needed Ben to gain a ring. If not for Roethlisberger, Cowher retires ringless. It's that simple.

Far from "managing" Ben, it was in fact Ben's ability to break free from the Cowher "run first, play not to lose" scheme that propelled the Steelers to a ring. You have gotten the situation 180 degrees wrong.

The Rooneys "committed" the big money to Roethlisberger because they know in fact this is true. Roethlisberger, not Cowher (or Bettis for that matter) is the factor that gives the Steelers a chance to truly compete for a championship. Because, as the first set of stats show, Roethlisberger is in FACT one of the most efficient QBs to ever play the game.

Lesson over. Your tuition bill will be arriving shortly.

LOL Even gunslingers compile supposedly impressive stats. Ask Favre... Under pressure it's Ben's arms and legs he relies on, not his brain. Hinds has bailed him out on many occasions. He's a load to take down, but the load is moving a little slower than it used to and getting more and more stubborn and determined to make the play on his terms. His Oline may not be helping Ben, but Ben's not helping them either. Neither is shifting the focus away from the running game, whether by accident or design.

The decision to open up the passing game for the playoffs in 2006 was Cowhers. It was strategic and limited which is why it worked. It didn't work in the Superbowl, but the run game did, with a little help from a 12th (striped) man the Steelers needed every bit of help from to best another team whose QB (Brett's former backup) remains a gunslinger at heart. Ben's QB rating if that's the measure you want to focus on was the worst ever for a winning SB QB - 22. Reminicent of the game they had to win in Detriot just to get to the playoffs that year - the game where Jerome score 3 TD's and Willie ran for 135 yards and Randal El scored on ST as Ben survived another QB ratings clunker (34). A game they had to win because Ben also coughed up a hairball against Cincy that cost them a division title and forced them to claw their way into the playoffs that year as a 6th seed.

Thing is Ben was chomping at the bit since the end of year 1 to be the franchise. He and Cowher did butt heads, as did he and Wisenhut - guys he has been less than gracious in assessing since they moved on... and Whisenhut seems to have his number much like Bill had Drew's when they parted company. His impressive QB rating this year was built on a schedule that featured only two playoff teams, both of whom the Steelers lost to, one twice including the playoffs...

The Steelers and Cowher didn't need Ben to win, they just needed something better than Slash or more durable than Maddox. They needed someone with moderate talent who was manageable. Ben was that in year 1. He has the capacity to be a little more, but he also has an ego that wants to be a lot more. Cowher and Wisenhut both knew that in the wake of that first ring, he would become increasingly unmanageable.

Patience grasshopper...your schooling will come and I'll waive the tuition since Ben will be the one teaching the lesson. If Pittsburgh doesn't rebuild that Oline and get back to running the ball (and not just with an UDFA with a burst) those 47 sacks seasons will begin to take a toll on their $102M man and he will become increasingly inconsistent and less durable. The Rooney's are pretty tight with their $$$, and giving that many to Ben sends a message that veterans on his team will note. Ben isn't going to get nearly as much to work with going forward as he has had in the past and likely needs in the future unless it comes via draft. And that could take a while.

There is always a risk when you give big bonus money to a franchise QB - because they are the one player on the roster whose absence can generally ruin a season. Ben has had issues, on and off the field, that have impacted his ability to perform effectively on the field. I think that too will continue to be the case.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Ben is a good QB. But no player (including Tom Brady) is worth 100 million dollars. That is insane.

$100 million men

Ben Roethlisberger became the seventh player in NFL history to sign a $100 million contract.

Player Team Contract
Ben Roethlisberger, 2008 Steelers 8 years, $102M
Carson Palmer, 2005 Bengals 9 years, $118.75M
Michael Vick, 2004 Falcons 10 years, $130M
Daunte Culpepper, 2003 Vikings 10 years, $102M
Donovan McNabb, 2002 Eagles 12 years, $115M
Drew Bledsoe, 2001 Patriots 10 years, $103M
Brett Favre, 2001 Packers 10 years, $101M

Thing is no QB has yet to see one of these phony deals to fruition. Favre is done after 7 of his ten years, Drew only saw year 1, McNabb is half way through his with one foot out the door, Daunte is unemployed..., Vick got about a $37M of his and will have to refund much of that, Palmer is early in his deal, and then there is Ben.

Mannings deal was originally a 9 year $127M deal but it has two voidable years so is usually characterized as a 7 year $98M deal.

BTW according to RotoWorld the Pittsburgh Post Gazette says the early spin on Ben's deal was a little off, as usual. He gets $25.2M in signing bonus, which is a little less than Tom got in split signing/option bonus on his deal in 2005 and his guaranteed money is actually $33.2M - just a little more than Brady saw in his first two years of his deal - which includes additional guaranteed money (salary or portions of salary). And he apparently did have to sign a clause stipulating he will not engage in hazerdous behaviors off the field.

 

[Chowda08]

Ben is a good QB. But no player (including Tom Brady) is worth 100 million dollars. That is insane.

I have to disagree. I would gladly watch the Patriots offer Brady the Gross Domestic Product of several developing countries if they could squeeze it under the cap and keep him in silver and blue permanently.

 

[SteelerSteve]

As far as raw talent goes Ben is possibly number 1 in the NFL. He has an amazing arm ( I have seen him in college throw the ball 70 yards in the air) and great improvisation when a play breaks down and he has to make something out of nothing. He is so strong it is difficult for even a d-lineman to bring him down on the first attempt and he almost always puts his team in a position to win the game, even if he plays poorly for part of the game he will usually make a strong second effort. I know he is not perfect, but he is definitley one of the better QB's in the NFL

 

[BHSL2]

As far as raw talent goes Ben is possibly number 1 in the NFL. He has an amazing arm ( I have seen him in college throw the ball 70 yards in the air) and great improvisation when a play breaks down and he has to make something out of nothing. He is so strong it is difficult for even a d-lineman to bring him down on the first attempt and he almost always puts his team in a position to win the game, even if he plays poorly for part of the game he will usually make a strong second effort. I know he is not perfect, but he is definitley one of the better QB's in the NFL

I don't get why some people are so down on him. He had a great year and improved his game under Arians. Yes, he still has aspects of the position to learn, but overall the Steelers should feel secure in his hands.

 

[SteelerSteve]

I don't get why some people are so down on him. He had a great year and improved his game under Arians. Yes, he still has aspects of the position to learn, but overall the Steelers should feel secure in his hands.

I guess some people just got down on him for his one bad season. I really don't know why some people dislike him so much, hes not like some stuck up jerk or anything like that. Maybe its because his name is hard to pronounce? lol he does have areas where he could use some improvements but overall he is a top qb in this league.

 

[everlong]

Raw talent doesn't win in this league you have to have the head to go with it. As far as raw talent Carson Palmer might be the most talented QB but he's not a top 5 QB in my mind because he takes stupid gambles at the wrong time and isn't content to move the chains at times, aka Drew Bledsoe disease.

I would take BR over Palmer any day of the week.

 

[Miguel]

FWIW - Brady was 28 at the start of the 2005 season. He signed his extension in May 25.

Big Ben will be 26 at the start of the 2008 season. He just turned 26.

 

[Sivy]

I put ben in the top five













top five overrated qbs in the NFL.

 

[The Dog]

If ben gets 102 mil then Brady should get about 75 mil. He is about 3/4 the qb Ben is.

 

[Sivy]

If ben gets 102 mil then Brady should get about 75 mil. He is about 3/4 the qb Ben is.

ben is gay.....

 

[SteelerSteve]

I put ben in the top five













top five overrated qbs in the NFL.

typical Ben Hater, he's so overrated lol
Any chance that you want to back up that statement?????

 

[SteelerSteve]

Raw talent doesn't win in this league you have to have the head to go with it. As far as raw talent Carson Palmer might be the most talented QB but he's not a top 5 QB in my mind because he takes stupid gambles at the wrong time and isn't content to move the chains at times, aka Drew Bledsoe disease.

I would take BR over Palmer any day of the week.

Agreed, being smart and knowing how to make good decisions is really the key to any decent qb's game.