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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Ilikehappyppl, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Disabled workers paid just pennies an hour ? and it's legal - Investigations

    Gotta love America, how is it even fair to do this? Let me guess they wouldn't hire they if they didn't and they should be thankful they make .22 cents an hour....What a freaking joke...

    You want to know why we have a messed up world.....Just look around...:cool:

    Non-Profits shouldn't be paying there board members 6 figures when they're paying there employes penny's...

    This is why I'll never donate to any charity or any church or goodwill store...Sacrifices should be made from the top down, not from the bottom to the top.
     
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's pretty disgusting.

    Nah, I take that back....it's very disgusting.

    I have a cousin who was in a car wreck many years ago and sustained serious, debilitating head injuries. She's confined to a wheelchair and she's "slow."

    She works in a sheltered workshop in Ohio (not Goodwill, though) and I know she only makes a bare pittance and she and her husband (who's even more disabled than she is) rely on SSI, disability, medicaid, food stamps, state supplied handicapped transportation, medicaid home health aides and public assistance to get by on.

    I give them both credit, though, they both work part time and have done so for years.

    I only wish they made enough money to live on.....and that they didn't vote Republican and rail against "the coloreds" who get "free stuff" and "welfare."
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really interesting post, Happy. I never knew about the loophole. I can see the point of enticing employers to hire mentally slow or physically disabled people, but paying someone 22¢ is like saying they are 1/40th as productive as a healthy person. That's exploitation. On the other hand, if these people are living in group homes, being provided with foodstamps, and getting Medicaid, then a program like this should be considered workfare. If it's workfare, then they are working in Goodwill for their rent, their food, and their healthcare, but in that case too, they should be given at least enough income to appreciate the fruits of their labor.
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Some quick thoughts about this.

    I think the "non-profit" designation is being abused to some degree in this country. It might be time to revisit what constitutes it's designation, and the rules with which a designee must abide by. I feel like they are ripe for abuse.

    The only thing I don't like is the loose use of the term "six-figure salary". If you're running a multi-million charity, that is a large operation, then $100k in pay is legitimate. Especially in cities like NY, Boston, LA, etc. Six-figures isn't what it used to be, and running these organizations (depending on the size) does require a lot. I think the issue is when you get into a "non-profit" that has people making well into the hundreds of thousands a year, that does little to no real charitable good. This is where my point above kicks in.

    Why do we have special exemptions for everything, or everyone? If you have a "minimum wage" then how can you give people a special exemption that allows them to pay below that? Is it not called "minimum" after all?

    Be very, very careful of who and what you donate too. I no longer donate to any public employee related charities for example, and only donate locally, or to well known organizations like the Jimmy Fund.

    The one legitimate point that I saw made, is whether or not many of these people would be hired if they had to be paid the $10 an hour a state like Cali would require. My guess is a lot of these people don't really do much at work. The point is, they are disabled, and are likely extremely limited in terms of capability. A lot of these positions are probably charitable employment in nature. That doesn't in anyway mean that they should be paid pennies. The mere point, from a logical perspective, is whether or not requiring minimum wage be paid to these individuals, result in a lot of them not being hired at all. I think a lot would lose their jobs.

    The local Home Depot has an employee who is in a wheelchair. The kid legitimately can do nothing, physically, because of his condition. Even his hand movements are limited. Still, he sits in the front, and can direct you to whatever isle the items you ask about, are located. I think it's great that the store employs this kid, but someone like Home Depot can afford his limitations. Some other businesses maybe cannot. So is it better to have two disabled, and physically limited individuals employed by the local thrift shop at $5 an hour, or none at all? It's a fair point. I'd venture to guess that most of these people get SSDI, and that their wages are merely a supplemental income to that. I'm guessing here. Thus, their jobs probably have more personal purpose, then financial. Maybe a "disabled" minimum wage should be set. Paying pennies, or $2.75 an hour, is ridiculous. How about a tax credit for hiring someone who's disabled, as opposed to paying them crappier wages?
     
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think they already get those.

    http://www.dol.gov/odep/documents/WOTC-incentive.pdf
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Bam, there you go. If I'm understanding it correctly, the credit is for a max $6k in salary, which would result in a max $2,400 credit. $7 an hour, x 40 hours a week, equals $280, by 52 weeks equals $14,560 I think? Add in the matching taxes employers have to pay, and it's more. So we're talking about a 15% or so credit at min wage, at full employment. I guess the question for employers, from a fiscal perspective, would be whether or not the credit makes up for the loss in production. As a part time employee, that credit, even at min wage, looks a lot more helpful. 20 hours per at min wage would still be enough to net the full credit. I think employing the disabled should be encouraged. Not only from a moral, and ethical POV, but also because it makes them contributing members of society. Most people do want a job, and do want to work, and the benefits of employment go beyond money.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know of a situation in North Providence, where a company that does a program for developmentally disabled was getting contracts from various companies in the area and the federal government, and they paid pennies to the clients...

    A good friend of mine was involved in the whistle blowing.. now it is taken over by a company out of Brooklyn, and has completely turned this company around..

    The feds got involved, he was charged and now he is facing serious time.. 10 years I believe, plus he lost the business(which was in his family for years) Pandora Products(they make cheese, stuffed peppers and a few other things)...

    TTP Director's Pay Exploded Over Decade | WPRI.com
     
  8. PatsFanInVa

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    I think I like a lot of what pretty much everybody said here.

    To RW, I'd say you're right, when people say "six figure" salaries, when talking about someone making $100K and running a huge charity out of somewhere like NY or DC, they don't know what they're talking about. I'll add that the GoodWill exec was making $729K... which may well be legit by his logic, but to me, nah.

    He cited the job creation strategies etc. etc. etc. that these charities are competing for -- you know, all those special corporate exec skills so important if you're trying to turn a profit.

    I think if you're running a charity, a little humility's in order. Take your 100 K or even 200 K a year.. and consider yourself "charitable." Or even announce that a non-profit shouldn't be getting execs rich, and hold the line at 100K. Same thing at the low end - announce you can't call yourself a "charity" and pay less than the minimum wage. Now don't get me wrong -- I think they should allow anybody to volunteer... But don't pay them 22 cents an hour and claim that it's justified because it's so fulfilling. To me, it's fine to say "Okay, look... this guy is unemployable. Let him volunteer or whatever, but some rare cases, you should just let go and do what you have to to take care of them."

    What Goodwill is doing is taking people who can work, and using 14(c) certificates to pay them fractional wages.

    I'm with you guys. Maybe some floor for 14(c)s is in order, indexed to the main minimum wage (perhaps at 2/3 minimum wage.)

    By the way I should mention.... the normal minimum wage needs to go up. Just generally. It'll put more money in the hands of those who will spend every cent to put back into the economy. It would be good for some businesses, bad for others. We'll see.

    The key is that you can't sustain an economy when some folks can't pay their bills with what they make in a 40-hour (or often, w/the second job, 80-hour) week.

    All-in analysis of job practices at the "bottom" seldom work out over a few years' time. The complaint is always the immediate impact.... "oh noooo people really need the terrible jobs you'll lose."

    [/soapbox]

    PFnV
     
  9. Hamar

    Hamar In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    It is not even workfare. My girlfriend's son is 21 and autistic. He is high functioning (think Forrest Gump minus Hollywood), he gets disability, but wants to work. He wants to be a positive to society. Not just that but working is the only real social interaction he can count on.

    People that employee mentally handicap persons are not preying on them they are making compromise of employer expectations for paying less wages.

    He had options last year to have some help through job coaches, but now that the government is cutting back (on everything but themselves) he is on his own. Oh well, I guess the solution is to have him full time on the tax payers dime and discourage his ability to provide for himself.
     
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Wow.........:confused:
     
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    I think when it's "less wages" (as in some significant portion of minimum wage), that's different from 22c/hour, or as in one instance in the link, 1c/hour. Those guys are taking an exception clearly intended to work as you've described above, and taking advantage to the point that they're not actually paying in any meaningful way. 40 hours of anybody's labor for less than $10? Come on.

    Not for nothin', but the government's been cutting back on itself quite a bit in the last few years. But I know that's not your main point. I agree with the idea that you have some sort of version of these 14(c) permits that allow for wage below the minimum. I just object to the extremes depicted in the story.

    Now, that said, what's more pertinent is how many people make the 22c. If I'm writing a news story, I can emphasize that I found a case of someone getting 22c/hour. Even if it was for one paycheck, because on the previous one you got significantly more than you were supposed to... you get the idea. A big question is whether there's an average wage that's much higher.

    But I think even in those cases where someone would not otherwise get hired... the "sheltered workshop" concept... that 22c/hour situation should not happen. It shouldn't cost your girlfriend more to get her son to work than he makes by going.

    PFnV
     

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