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State of the game: Rick Reilly commentary


Please, I've investigated and reviewed thousands of mv accidents. Not one driver has made the claim that wearing a seatbelt avoided a secondary collision - not one. There are very few non professional drivers that even have the wherewithal to maneuver to avoid a secondary crash and in many instances they do more harm than good with this ability (such as swerve to avoid a 2nd car in the road, thus leaving the roadway - a big mistake - and head for a pole, tree, pedestrian, etc).

Honestly, in all my years I've never even heard this as an argument. Can you point to any studies? Produce one police report? Like I said, these are non professional drivers we're talking about. Show me the proof that this " maintaining of control" hasn't led to as many bad results as good ones.

Do you agree that the simple act of wearing a belt when sitting in a car significantly reduces the strain on emergency services due to vehicle accidents?
 
Do you agree that the simple act of wearing a belt when sitting in a car significantly reduces the strain on emergency services due to vehicle accidents?

This thread seems to have veered a bit off-course.
 

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Do you agree that the simple act of wearing a belt when sitting in a car significantly reduces the strain on emergency services due to vehicle accidents?

Hell yeah. Trust me, I've seen the destruction caused by not doing the simplest of things - wearing a seatbelt. I won't go down the block w/o one. Unfortunately, the excessive nannyism of our present day government has me acting as belligerently as they do, so I don't want to even consider reasonable limits on my freedom anymore. When is enough enough?
 
Seat belts, modern speed limits, motorcycle helmets and limited smoking areas are all abominations that began with constitutionally dubious actions taken by the fed, and everyone who helped get them installed should have been arrested and tried for treason.


Sadly, the U.S. has become a bubble wrap society.

Smoking and speed limits affect OTHER people -- beyond just you and your passengers -- so you're way off base there. Never mind second-hand smoke cancer risk or lack thereof; it just makes me nauseous. As for helmets and seat belts -- cripples ARE a drag on any decently compassionate society, so I think it's OK to inhibit people from crippling themselves.
 
Non-smokers griped that they just wanted a small space for themselves, and they got non-smoking sections mandated. Now, many places aren't even allowed smoking sections,

Airline flights used to be torture for me. I refused free first-class upgrades, because there was more smoke in the non-smoking sections there than in economy class.
 
Sometimes people get carried away with this stuff and don't know when to stop. I think common sense will prevail and junk food and candy won't be banned anytime soon. Makes you wonder though - we do make drugs illegal and if you somehow carry that argument far enough, you could probably convince yourself that it is justifiable to ban candy, and junk food, and all of the things you mentioned.

We're moving TOWARD drug legalization, if anything. Certainly marijuana.

Sex is an area where we have much more legal liberty than before -- not that long ago, blowjobs were illegal in some states. ("Oral sodomy")
 
Please, I've investigated and reviewed thousands of mv accidents. Not one driver has made the claim that wearing a seatbelt avoided a secondary collision - not one. There are very few non professional drivers that even have the wherewithal to maneuver to avoid a secondary crash and in many instances they do more harm than good with this ability (such as swerve to avoid a 2nd car in the road, thus leaving the roadway - a big mistake - and head for a pole, tree, pedestrian, etc).

Honestly, in all my years I've never even heard this as an argument. Can you point to any studies? Produce one police report? Like I said, these are non professional drivers we're talking about. Show me the proof that this " maintaining of control" hasn't led to as many bad results as good ones.

You're arguing against the status quo. Burden of proof is yours.

I might have searched anyway, but none of this is relevant as you don't have any right to drive. Your rights are not being infringed. No rights were taken away.

The terms of behavior for being ALLOWED to drive on public roads changed and there is no constitutional basis in complaining seatbelts restrict your rights.
 
Anslinger received, as head of The Federal Bureau of Narcotics an alarming increase of reports about smoking of marijuana in 1936 that continued to spread at an accelerated pace in 1937. Before, smoking of marijuana had been relatively slight and confined to the Southwest, particularly along the Mexican border. The bureau launched two important steps. First, the Bureau prepared a legislative plan to seek from Congress a new law that would place marijuana and its distribution directly under federal control. Second, Anslinger ran a campaign against marijuana on radio and at major forums.[9][10]

Some of his critics[who?] allege that Anslinger and the campaign against marijuana had a hidden agenda, DuPont petrochemical interests and William Randolph Hearst together created the highly sensational anti-marijuana campaign to eliminate hemp as an industrial competitor. Indeed, Anslinger did not himself consider marijuana a serious threat to American society until in the fourth year of his tenure (1934), at which point an anti-marijuana campaign, aimed at alarming the public, became his primary focus as part of the government's broader push to outlaw all recreational drugs.[11] Members of the League of Nations had already implemented restrictions for marijuana in the beginning of the 1930s and restrictions started in many states in the U.S years before Anslinger was appointed. Both president Franklin D. Roosevelt and his attorney general publicly supported this development in 1935.[11][12]

By using the mass media as his forum (receiving much support from William Randolph Hearst), Anslinger propelled the anti-marijuana sentiment from the state level to a national movement. Writing for The American Magazine, the best examples were contained in his "Gore File", a collection of quotes from police reports, by later opponents described as police-blotter-type narratives of heinous cases, most with no substantiation, linking graphically depicted offenses with the drug. Anslinger sometimes used the very brief and concise language in many police reports when he wrote about drug crimes:

"An entire family was murdered by a youthful addict in Florida. When officers arrived at the home, they found the youth staggering about in a human slaughterhouse. With an axe he had killed his father, mother, two brothers, and a sister. He seemed to be in a daze… He had no recollection of having committed the multiple crime. The officers knew him ordinarily as a sane, rather quiet young man; now he was pitifully crazed. They sought the reason. The boy said that he had been in the habit of smoking something which youthful friends called “muggles,” a childish name for marijuana."[13]


Anslinger has been accused Template:By Who? to be responsible for racial themes in articles against marijuana in the 1930s.

“By the tons it is coming into this country — the deadly, dreadful poison that racks and tears not only the body, but the very heart and soul of every human being who once becomes a slave to it in any of its cruel and devastating forms…. Marihuana is a short cut to the insane asylum. Smoke marihuana cigarettes for a month and what was once your brain will be nothing but a storehouse of horrid specters. Hasheesh makes a murderer who kills for the love of killing out of the mildest mannered man who ever laughed at the idea that any habit could ever get him….”[14]

"Colored students at the Univ. of Minn. partying with (white) female students, smoking [marijuana] and getting their sympathy with stories of racial persecution. Result: pregnancy"[15][16]

"Two Negros took a girl fourteen years old and kept her for two days under the influence of hemp. Upon recovery she was found to be suffering from syphilis."[16][17]

"The first Federal law-enforcement administrator to recognize the signs of a national criminal syndication and sound the alarm was Harry J. Anslinger, Commissioner of the Bureau of Narcotics in the Treasury" (Ronald Reagan 1986)[18]

When Anslinger was interviewed in 1954 about drug abuse (see below), he did not mention anything about race or sex. In his book The Protectors (1964) Anslinger has a chapter called "Jazz and Junk Don't Mix" about the black jazz musicians Billie Holiday and Charlie Parker, who both died after years of heroin and alcohol abuse:

"Jazz entertainers are neither fish nor fowl. They do not get the million-dollar protection Hollywood and Broadway can afford for their stars who have become addicted – and there are many more than will ever be revealed. Perhaps this is because jazz, once considered a decadent kind of music, has only token respectability. Jazz grew up next door to crime, so to speak. Clubs of dubious reputation were, for a long time, the only places where it could be heard. But the times bring changes, and as Billy Holiday was a victim of time and change, so too was Charlie Parker, a man whose music, like Billie's, is still widely imitated. Most musicians credit Parker among others as spearheading what is called modern jazz." (p. 157)

Anslinger hoped to orchestrate a nationwide dragnet of jazz musicians and kept a file called 'Marijuana and Musicians'.[19]


Harry J. Anslinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah...tra la la....nothing to see here....daffodils and bunny rabbits and candy and cake...we are so fortunate government is passing thousands of new laws to protect us from ourselves...what were WE thinking?????

In the state of RI, if you were arrested for possession of marijuana when it was felonious, you LOST the right to bear arms because possession of marijuana was a VIOLENT CRIME.

IDIOCY...as plain as day...and it seems all of you lived right through this era in our society's history and never heard or saw a thing, eh???

"DO WHAT WE SAY AND TAKE WHAT WE TELL YOU TO OR WE WILL DISARM YOU, ENTER YOUR HOME AND END YOUR LIFE AT OUR WHIM...THANX, YOUR "GOVERNMENT"

How many millions of lives were forever altered by this jihad aimed squarely at the citizens of the United States?
 
Reilly: NFL becoming a guilty pleasure - ESPN

"I used to love football the way German shepherds love sirloin. I'd sit in the press box and insist the window stay open -- even on down-coat days -- just so I could hear the sound of two men colliding at full speed. It thrilled me. And I'd wonder: Who does that?

Now I hear that sound and wonder how soon it will be before they can't remember where they parked, their sons' middle names, or where their families went last summer on vacation.

I see too much sorrow and ugliness to love football like I used to."

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This drumbeat is getting louder and I personally am trying to sort out my own feelings around these issues. The concussion syndrome problem I find most disturbing. My recent rationalization is that these things will sort themselves out one way or another and the game likely will go on in an adjusted form. Either the game itself will change to hopefully minimize CTE or a medical solution will emerge to mitigate/manage its post-career effects. There's also the fact that these players now fully know the risks and voluntarily court them for great financial reward. It's their choice.

But still, I'm not sure how to view this stuff as a fan. I've been a passionate fan of the NFL since childhood. It's a huge part of whatever free time I carve out for myself and I don't want to start feeling "guilty" about it. But what could/should we, as fans, do? I think you have to more or less just standby and be prepared to accept whatever happens.

I'm curious what others here think.
don't worry. theres always baseball and your 2013 world series champion boston redsox.
 
I overheard some Neanderthals discussing your post and they were lamenting the not so long ago days of dodge balls in gym class, public sledding on golf courses, ice skating on public ponds, unguided trail rides on horseback, and actually being allowed to play tag. These apes had the gall to wax poetic about the times before the lawyers/feminists took over the world and spoke ignorantly about the litigation happy changes that have wrecked our individual freedoms and how rampant feminization has changed societal mores. They had the nerve to suggest that these men be allowed to live the life they choose (like a boxer or mountain climber - for now anyway). I put them in their place and explained that the cost to a society that is too compassionate to let them live with the choices they made is too great to allow such individual freedom. And besides, we should be evolving beyond the need to display such barbarism. When they laughed and suggested such change is better accomplished by man than by edict, I guffawed and told them to just shut up.

I couldn't agree more. Hopefully these liberal ***** will back off because I'd like to see a sport where people with terminal diseases are given rusty blades and the one who hacks the other one to death gets a month's supply of hookers and enough blow to make sure they OD happily.

See, I can stupid hyperbole too.

Personal accountability is on the players. Recognizing our role as a society in the glorification and funding of the sport is part of accountability too.

But keep telling yourself this is all the sissification of America while young men who don't even have fully-developed decision making centers of the brain opt to try to make millions while drastically impacting their long-term health and most of the time ending up out of the league within 3 years. Whatever helps our role in this feel better for you.

I watch the sport but I feel like a hypocrite sometimes. I would support all rule changes up to and including turning it onto flag football because I have a goddamn conscience.
 
It's somewhat amusing to read the first page of posts to this thread and then the last. Quite different topics.

The original question was how do we reconcile between what can happen to the players and our own personal enjoyment from the entertainment? I read something about cars?? :confused2:

I choose not to think of it personally, but I would sooner involve my future kids in one of the many other popular sports to save their brain functions later in life. Now that the NFL finally conceded there to be major issues via hefty concessions to former players, there is a lot more good information to base judgments on whether to play or not.

Overtime as research progresses, I think that the players will have fewer excuses over their personal decisions. But in the end, it's too easy to opine from the ivory tower of a Board. I don't know of anyone personally impacted, and perhaps my tune would change. It's saddening when you hear of what happens to players like Junior Seau and the families that are left behind.

This is more of an offseason topic. The bye week gets plenty boring but not so much as to re-visit the more...somber topics.
 
What exactly is the point of electing people to government if you're not going to give them a mandate to make decisions?

Well the US had a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that attempted to explicitly limit the powers of government and explicitly stated that any such powers came from the people, not government per se. Since that time we have learned that via elected representatives we can impose our wills and latest trendy social preferences on others and take their work product (earnings) to make them pay for our stuff.
 
being unable to leave your feet to make a tackle would turn football into a game that didn't even reach flag football standards. Why would you think any significant amount of people would watch that? Lord know I certainly wouldn't.

Yeah, it won't be as spectacular, but I'll bet plenty of people will still watch.

Quarterbacks are now protected by pretty strict tackling rules, and I think those rules will end up being expanded to the entire game.

We still watch our " sissy " quarterbacks, and they still suffer injuries, so in the end I don't think the game will be that much different.
 
I posted the prior post before finishing reading all the posts, so back on topic.

I am optimistic that substantive changes perhaps such as soft shell helmets and enforcement of the current rules will improve players future neural health. It may take quite a while to back this with measured sets as many of today's players have already sustained concussions since childhood.

I've said here previously that 30 years from now we won't have the NFL. I believe that as a result of litigation (the American way!) and insurers dropping concussion coverage, etc. that first HS football and college football will go away, starving the NFL. Despite expected but long overdue improvements in helmet, etc. tech, societal trends are against allowing anyone to assume personal risk.

Just for the record, as an older guy I'm thankful that I'm mobile and still slightly rational.
 
Personal accountability is on the players. Recognizing our role as a society in the glorification and funding of the sport is part of accountability too.

But keep telling yourself this is all the sissification of America while young men who don't even have fully-developed decision making centers of the brain opt to try to make millions while drastically impacting their long-term health and most of the time ending up out of the league within 3 years. Whatever helps our role in this feel better for you.

I watch the sport but I feel like a hypocrite sometimes. I would support all rule changes up to and including turning it onto flag football because I have a goddamn conscience.

Flag football? As stated previously, I would absolutely endorse improved safety equipment and elimination of meaningless contact through rule evolution, but there is no way I support a variant of football without contact. At that point, it is basketball with more players rather than football and not worth watching. Consent is my only concern, which requires a degree of understanding of the risk, and this has been a tort concept for hundreds of years. If an individual consents to play with a reasonable understanding of the risks of the sport, then I believe a competency to contract standard for jocks akin to people with mental health issues is entirely inappropriate.

You can take away the market (and you would with flag football), and you leave, I suspect, many of these souls with few possibilities in life (see college admission processes and academic performance, that is excused because of athletic success). Those, and I suspect there are many, who found their way out of difficult and potentially short lives due to prowess will have no other options. If this altered reality left them in that environment, and they die a victim of criminal activity or as a criminal, is life better for them? Read The Blind Side if your heart is too heavy while watching the sport. The non-Disneyized version of that story tells a very gritty story of what the sport does, in the positive sense.

It isn't a lack of conscience that causes me to reason as such. People who have never served a day in the military may laud decisions to send troops to war, and lament the dead, but the reality is a number 10+ times more of the soldiers and sailors sent to war will live lives with serious physical disabilities and far more with suffer psychological damage (there are veterans courts now to deal with the high percentage of drug and mental health issues in criminal courts following combat tours), and the news talks little of that inconvenient consequence. People generally tend to be blissfully ignorant of those lifetime effects, apparently believing the war ends for the soldiers when the troops come home, or somehow believing the occasional news story is the exception rather than the rule. Far from it, but this evidence is often not politically expedient and gets little press. If you really want to know the truth of these effects, the information is out there and has been for a long time. The same is true of contact sports. The military is unfortunately a necessity in this world, and for the last 4 decades or so everyone volunteers with at least a generalized understanding of what that agreement implies. We signed up for it, and many do so at the same age as those involved in the sport. Do we raise the age for enlistment? Mandate no football before the age of 18, when the participants are a little less ignorant or have the risk component of their psyche more evolved? What arbitrary age do you set, since maturity is an individual concept and can be attained at a much earlier or later age in life?

If you feel these poor souls were duped into a violent sport, who likely enjoyed a high school and college experience far different and arguably better than you or me (I loved football in high school, but was far from a star athlete) as a star athlete, and earned a salary in three years that may be 20 or 30 times the national norm, then take away the sport and ask how high the percentage suffering greater personal and physical effects from life itself might be. How many in life would trade their very souls for a few moments in the spotlight? If that is a high number, and I suspect it is, then how do you weigh the percentage suffering effects against those who got the very benefit of the sport they bargained for?

I feel sympathy for the percentage realizing the long-term effects of the sport. But I never feel guilty watching the sport because it is not defined solely by the tragic cases. There are tons of success stories, and you frequently hear the stories that "football saved my life" from people with few prospects in childhood. One hit changed Darryl Stingley's life physically forever. Yet he lived, and I never heard him wish he had never played the sport. This article on Stingley from 2007 is informative, as it describes why football has its audience and suggests its future if you remove the contact aspect of the game.

Or this quote, from a New York Times article on Stingley from the man himself:

“The dream from which Darryl Stingley does not like to awaken is one in which he is a football player again. He says he is suited up for the game. He stands in the stadium runway. ‘The dream always ended at the point when I’m going out on the field and ready to play,’ he says. ‘But it never goes beyond that.’ ”

“I have relived that moment over and over again. I was 26 years old at the time and I remember thinking, What’s going to happen to me? If I live, what am I going to be like? And then there were all those whys, whys, whys.”

I would argue what Stingley suffered eclipses what this current injury movement describes for the most part. The man would never move on his own again at age 26. Was he ignorant at the time in dreaming to return to the field? Did he need the help of the general public to save him from the terrible fate he would suffer? He had every reason to hate the sport after his injury, but didn't. The dream isn't of walking into a board room, or firing up the grill at McDonald's, or simply walking again as a normal JAG citizen. It is of playing football again.

The shame, in my opinion, is of the NFL and its reluctance to help retirees. There is no doubt in my mind that a fund should have been created by the NFL, not the NFLPA, for all former players to tend to medical care, and to provide a modest retirement payment in the event these players are irresponsible with career earnings. There is enough money in the billions earned every year to do that. I wonder how many of these physical issues would have been made public if that were the case, and the NFL paid and took care of the players who made the game what it is? This recent injury settlement smacks of a late attempt to do just that, and falls far short of what it should be.
 
I overheard some Neanderthals discussing your post and they were lamenting the not so long ago days of dodge balls in gym class, public sledding on golf courses, ice skating on public ponds, unguided trail rides on horseback, and actually being allowed to play tag. These apes had the gall to wax poetic about the times before the lawyers/feminists took over the world and spoke ignorantly about the litigation happy changes that have wrecked our individual freedoms and how rampant feminization has changed societal mores. They had the nerve to suggest that these men be allowed to live the life they choose (like a boxer or mountain climber - for now anyway). I put them in their place and explained that the cost to a society that is too compassionate to let them live with the choices they made is too great to allow such individual freedom. And besides, we should be evolving beyond the need to display such barbarism. When they laughed and suggested such change is better accomplished by man than by edict, I guffawed and told them to just shut up.

I couldn't agree more. Hopefully these liberal ***** will back off because I'd like to see a sport where people with terminal diseases are given rusty blades and the one who hacks the other one to death gets a month's supply of hookers and enough blow to make sure they OD happily.

See, I can stupid hyperbole too.

You need to get out more. The problem with your joke is my narrative doesn't contain hyperbole.
 
It isn't a lack of conscience that causes me to reason as such. People who have never served a day in the military may laud decisions to send troops to war, and lament the dead, but the reality is a number 10+ times more of the soldiers and sailors sent to war will live lives with serious physical disabilities and far more with suffer psychological damage (there are veterans courts now to deal with the high percentage of drug and mental health issues in criminal courts following combat tours), and the news talks little of that inconvenient consequence. People generally tend to be blissfully ignorant of those lifetime effects, apparently believing the war ends for the soldiers when the troops come home, or somehow believing the occasional news story is the exception rather than the rule. Far from it, but this evidence is often not politically expedient and gets little press. If you really want to know the truth of these effects, the information is out there and has been for a long time. The same is true of contact sports. The military is unfortunately a necessity in this world, and for the last 4 decades or so everyone volunteers with at least a generalized understanding of what that agreement implies. We signed up for it, and many do so at the same age as those involved in the sport. Do we raise the age for enlistment? Mandate no football before the age of 18, when the participants are a little less ignorant or have the risk component of their psyche more evolved? What arbitrary age do you set, since maturity is an individual concept and can be attained at a much earlier or later age in life?

how do you weigh the percentage suffering effects against those who got the very benefit of the sport they bargained for?

I feel sympathy for the percentage realizing the long-term effects of the sport. But I never feel guilty watching the sport because it is not defined solely by the tragic cases. There are tons of success stories, and you frequently hear the stories that "football saved my life" from people with few prospects in childhood.

The shame, in my opinion, is of the NFL and its reluctance to help retirees. There is no doubt in my mind that a fund should have been created by the NFL, not the NFLPA, for all former players to tend to medical care, and to provide a modest retirement payment in the event these players are irresponsible with career earnings. There is enough money in the billions earned every year to do that. I wonder how many of these physical issues would have been made public if that were the case, and the NFL paid and took care of the players who made the game what it is? This recent injury settlement smacks of a late attempt to do just that, and falls far short of what it should be.

Agree that the league owners first but secondly the NFLPA should have stepped up for retirees.

As to the military, you beat me to it. Puts NFL football in a more rational life context and perspective. Those agonizing over watching today's games can do something useful and donate here to help those who took far greater physical risks, paid far higher prices and received no millions of dollars for their voluntary sacrifices…

Charity Navigator Rating - Wounded Warrior Project

Charity Navigator is a useful tool to weed out the most dysfunctional charities.
 
I'm not about to enter the political or philosophical debate here. However, the use seatbelts and motorcycle helmets reduces the cost of accidents and has a tangible effect on insurance premiums. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Smoking is most definitely a workplace safety issue so there are insurance cost implications there as well.
 


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