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Spotlight on Josh McDaniels Now

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Since 2005 the guy has been blessed with Tom Brady. For several years now people here have questioned his predictability in play calls, some head scratchers in calling horrible plays, slowness in making adjustments, as well as going deep too much which results in leaving his QB's vulnerable to get whacked. Basically the entire time he's been here he had the benefit of calling plays that relied on the independent talent and skill of his players, rather than on the cunning of his own plays.

    He did go through one year with crappy receivers, but this time with all-pro talent all across the offense except at QB, it's time to see what this guy can do without his security blanket named Brady. I'm still skeptical that this guy has enough savvy or patience to run a ball control, intelligent offense. I don't think it's a coincidence we haven't won the big one since he became coordinator. The pressure is on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008
  2. StevePatsFan

    StevePatsFan Practice Squad Player

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    This may sound dumb especially after the numbers this offense put up last season, but I really hope McDaniels starts running a much more conventional offense. Far be it from me to tell them how to run the offence, but I really wish we would use the play action pass more, instead of always declaring what they are going to do and dare teams to stop it.

    Matt Casselle is clearly not Tom Brady, but hes our guy for the foreseeable future, lets give him more I forms, 3WR packages and PLAY ACTION!!!!!!

    I still think if the offense is managed properly, and the defense comes to play, we can definitely win the AFC east, and get into the playoffs playing with a strong running game, and a good defense.
     
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    McDaniels has long relied on the individual talent and skill of his players than on his own intelligence or cunning. Half our plays last year were from shotgun, the guy barely ever uses play action or deception in most of our passing or running plays, and when he does it is at a horrible time in the game.

    I fear defensive coordinators are going to have a coaching advantage against him most games, and this time he doesn't have Brady to bail him out with his audibles or individual skill.
     
  4. Rob0729

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    I know I have been accused of McDaniels being a binkie of mine, but I think that this may be the year that McDaniels gets his due from the McDaniels bashers. I think this guy is a lot better than some fans give him credit for.

    He did pass his first test pretty well. He did do a very good job revising the gameplan on the fly to put Cassel in a position to succeed yesterday. It clearly wasn't the gameplan they went into the game with Brady other than maybe that first pass to Moss (although it was absolutely the right call to make in that position since the defense was going to read run all the way).
     
  5. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    The 51-yard bomb to Moss wasn't McDaniel's call. If you read the interviews Moss explains he saw a crack in their defense and improvised on what his route was supposed to be, and fortunately Cassel saw the same thing.
     
  6. StevePatsFan

    StevePatsFan Practice Squad Player

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    I don’t think I’m a McDaniels basher, I hope he does a great job this year, I just would really like to see more convention to this offense. Maybe its Brady that wants the shotgun stuff, I don’t know, I just wish with the backs we have on this team, we pound on D lines, and play action to Moss and Welker…

    You want to talk about the 51 yard bomb, ill talk about the horrible almost safeties on back to back prior to that play… Again, im not trying to bash McDaniels, I just think its dumb to declare prior to the play on a 3rd and 3 that you are definitely passing…
    I mean think about it, how many times did the running game get going last year, even in the preseason, and he would just call one to many and it gets blown up… Play action on those would be automatic TDs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008
  7. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    I just think it's unreal the level of precision those players have. Moss was basically like "well, he was standing flat footed with his feet together so I knew I was going to be able to get by him." Like... instead of his feet being a few inches the other way or something. Unreal.
     
  8. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    One thing I've always had a problem with about McDaniels is he doesn't play ball control offense, he tries to go for the quick strike too much, exposing his QB's for big hits. He's also way too predictable and unimaginative.

    I remember an interview many years ago by Belichick where he said the coordinators of all units need to work together, in synch, in order to win. Meaning, the offensive coordinator needs to know when the defense is tired and when to just slow the game down and just grind things out for a while.
     
  9. Amazedbyitallin07

    Amazedbyitallin07 Rookie

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    I actually hope the boy-genius gets thrown out on his ass at some point over the next year or two. Then he can spend his time drawing up long bombs in the dirt and risking the health of high school and sandlot quarterbacks instead.

    I'm sorry, that was mean.

    Sandlot and HS quarterbacks deserve better.

    (complete rant against Josh McDouchebag posted in "How Do You Feel")
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2008
  10. Leave No Doubt

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    Interesting thread- just how will a Brady-less offense affect our playcalling (or will it). One thing-Cassel's more of a scrambler than Brady and seems a bit faster. Is this something McDaniels will use to our advantage? I'm sure he'll play to strengths, so given the fact Matt's our man, how will Josh adjust to it?
     
  11. Rob0729

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    It wasn't the route itself, it was the pass to Moss that I thought was great. Besides, the play was designed with Moss having the option of going deep. It was one of the designed presnap reads for the play. Moss saw it and decided to run the route. That is what Moss praised Cassel about that they both saw the same thing and made the same presnap adjustment.
     
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Brady was getting slammed to the ground way more than after McDaniels was coordinator, remember in 2005 how much of a beating he was taking? McDaniels is too in love with these slow-developing plays of multiple WR sets and not enough protection.

    I see McDaniels as kind of like Norv Turner in that they were blessed to coach world class individual talent, but on their own they're no good.
     
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Cassel should be given the green light to run if he sees an opening.

    Also, in the McDaniels era screen passes and quick outs have all but disappeared. Time to bring them back.
     
  14. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I agree with Maverick's contention that McDaniels is too predictable.

    With Brady out there, he can get away with it.

    I also agree that the spotlight is on McDaniels now. Weis was a genius at giving his O an advantage by being unpredictable. We need that sense and creativity right now.

    I'm not sure about the conventional offense argument. As long as we mix things up and keep the defense off balance, we can be as unconventional as we like. With players like Welker and Moss and Faulk, we have that luxury.
     
  15. Rob0729

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    Re: More Pressure on Josh McDaniels Now

    Yeah, I do have to agree that he did use Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel as a crutch in 2006. My biggest fear is that we don't have those guys to carry Cassel during this tough time.

    Play action isn't the only way to keep teams off guard. Weis was never a huge play action guys and only used it a lot in 2004 because they had Dillon as a dangerous threat. Besides, even in a shotgun, the Pats have done play action passes.

    The Pats were in the shotgun a lot last year, but had running plays out of the shotgun, did playaction out of the shotgun, and did deception plays like reverses out of the shotgun. Just because you are in the shotgun a lot doesn't mean that you are definitely passing and teams knew that when facing the Pats.

    Besides, they ran so much of the shotgun because that was where Brady performed best. Brady has been lobbying to do a lot more out of the shotgun since his early days because Brady feels he can see more of the field out of shotgun. So with Cassel in there, they will probably tone down the shotgun plays. He isn't Brady.
     
  16. Rob0729

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    That's because Weis didn't run a verticle offense. Weis liked the short passing game which meant Brady got rid of the ball really quickly.

    As for 2005, the defense was arguably the worst or second worst of the Brady era. Brady was forced to carry the team a lot more than in other years without the talent he had last year.

    Hey we can back to the 2003 three and out offense that Weis liked to run if . We had the worst third down offense of the Brady era that year (37% effectiveness where as McDaniels has never had the offense drop below 42.3% effectiveness on third down). But at least Brady didn't get hit as much.
     
  17. Rob0729

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    Weis' creativity wasn't always a good thing. As I pointed out in my last post, the offense suffered in 2003 because they couldn't convert third downs. The Pats had a lot of three and outs that season.

    Besides, Weis wasn't always that unpredictable. He always went for a long bomb on the first play after a turnover. On third and short, he typically ran a FB draw that rarely worked (unfortunately, McDaniels ran that play twice yesterday with a 50% success rate which I hope he doesn't pick up for Weis).

    I still think the legend of Weis is far greater than the actual guy. I think people are far too critical about McDaniels about things they perceived Weis did in the past too. Not saying your post is like that per sea, but I am talking about people in general who are critical of McDaniels. Sorry to single you out on this.
     
  18. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I just disagree. I saw Weis turn a horrible Jets offense into a very good one simply by being completely unpredictable. The guy had the magic touch. When BB came over to the Patriots, I was praying that he would bring Weis with him.
     
  19. Rob0729

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    Huh? Screen passes have all but disapeared? Really?!? Are Faulk and Welker gone deep all these times when I thought they were catching screen passes. This is almost as untrue of an argument than the argument that the Pats didn't try any screens in the Super Bowl until the fourth quarter last February when the first play of the game was a screen.

    The Pats beat the Jags in the division round of the playoffs and held onto the ball for most of the 4th quarter against the Charger in the AFC Championship game with primarily screen passes.

    Also, with Cassel in there, they did throw quite a few screens. Both Welker's best (a 13 yard gainer) and worst plays (his fumble) of the game were WR screen passes.
     
  20. Rob0729

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    Such a magic touch that Parcells stripped him of his play calling abilities while at the Jets? Sorry, the Jets turn around came from the fact that Kotite's poison was gone and Testeverde was added to the system to go along with Weis' gameplanning and strategy.

    Weis was still the same guy who insisted that Bledsoe throw WR screens eventhough he kept on hitting 5 foot nothing Troy Brown in the shins whenever he tried. Instead of trying to make the offense work for Bledsoe, he tried to force Bledsoe to run his offense.

    Weis was a very good coordinator. I am not taking that away from him, but people have blown what he has done out of proportion. He had his worts and a lot of them at times. People were killing him in 2002 and 2003. His 2004 performance along with the Super Bowls have erased people's memories of the negatives.
     
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