Specter on Limbaugh show: "There was filming"

[flasox27]

Fanetic.
A couple of points:
You are under the illusion that the New England fans care what the media and their weak minded followers think. At this stage of the game there is literally nothing that can be done to change the opinion of the morons out there thanks to the Incompetence and bias of Goodell.
You are also under the illusion that the blowhard from Comcast has any authority in the Senate to do anything. He is the minority member of the committee. For anything to be done in the Committee the Chairman Leahy from Vermont and the senior democrat Kennedy from Massachusetts have to go along. Do you really think that they will sign onto Specter witch hunt. If you have realized it both Senators are fron New England.
You are finaly under the illusion that Walsh will have any credibilitywhen and if he talks.By the time it comes to that he will be known as a thief and a liar and will be awaiting prosecution in Massachusetts cout for illegal taping which is a felony.

 

[tdw777]

.if you think my views are abnormal on this in terms of how fans of the other 31 teams in the League view this I invite you to go and ask them. Visit another team's message board and ask what they think should happen if Walsh turns out to have a copy of the SB walkthrough tape. I strongly suspect you won't like the answer you get.....

I would say that right about now most NE fans really don't give a rats $ss about what the other 31 teams fans have to say.

 

[flasox27]

Amen, brother

 

[tdw777]

Fanetic.
A couple of points:
You are under the illusion that the New England fans care what the media and their weak minded followers think. At this stage of the game there is literally nothing that can be done to change the opinion of the morons out there thanks to the Incompetence and bias of Goodell.
You are also under the illusion that the blowhard from Comcast has any authority in the Senate to do anything. He is the minority member of the committee. For anything to be done in the Committee the Chairman Leahy from Vermont and the senior democrat Kennedy from Massachusetts have to go along. Do you really think that they will sign onto Specter witch hunt. If you have realized it both Senators are fron New England.
You are finaly under the illusion that Walsh will have any credibilitywhen and if he talks.By the time it comes to that he will be known as a thief and a liar and will be awaiting prosecution in Massachusetts cout for illegal taping which is a felony.

what he said

 

[flasox27]

What do you mean?

 

[BSR]

You may be right on the League not wanting to find anything and I agree they will do all they can to minimize it, but I think your analysis is a bit of wishful thinking on how this goes away. First, after what happened with destroying evidence the first time around, there's no way Goodell could get away with such a high-handed approach this time as to have no transparency with the process here.

Its not wishful thinking at all. How transparent was he with the tampering investigation between the 49ers and Bears? There was no transparency. Currently nobody really knows what evidence and the full extent of the tampering. The only wishful thinking is on the part of the media and some odd ball fans that think they are going to get some circus O.J.-like trial that they can latch on to. Its not going to happen.

As we've already seen, the press would have a field day with that and average fans of every team but NE would be all over that like flies on you know what.

"They would be all over that"? What does that even mean? If they issue a statement similar to the one I presented what are you going to do?

I think his past handling of this is really going to come back and bite him here. Similarly, no way do fans or the press, much less Sen. Specter, who will still be out there for all of this, let him get away with putting an effective gag order on Walsh. This isn't going away until we all hear what Mr. Walsh has to say, straight from him.

That might be your hope, but that isn't necessarily true. There are a number of senarios where the issue is resolved and Walsh never talks. In fact, those are the most likely senarios. That is what will benefit those with the most power here. If Specter really could have done something to force their hand, don't you think he would have by now?

One thing I'm a bit surprised about here is that it seems like many folks here just want this to somehow magically go away. As fans of the team that's been accused of cheating, don't you all want to have your name cleared? The only way that will happen is for Walsh to come forward with all he has and for that to turn out to be a big pile of nothing--anything less and this doesn't go away. I, for one, out of curiousity on all this, very much want to see what, if anything, Mr. Walsh has. It may be something, it may be nothing, but we need to know what it is and hear it from him, not another "nothing to see here, just move along."

I am sure you were also hanging on every pearl of wisdom dropped by the estimable Kato Kaetlin as well. Some of us actually looked into his background and can recognize a fraud and a charlatan for what his is. This isn't the type of guy you want to stake your reputation or fortune on.

 

[FootballFanetic]

Its not wishful thinking at all. How transparent was he with the tampering investigation between the 49ers and Bears? There was no transparency. Currently nobody really knows what evidence and the full extent of the tampering. The only wishful thinking is on the part of the media and some odd ball fans that think they are going to get some circus O.J.-like trial that they can latch on to. Its not going to happen.



"They would be all over that"? What does that even mean? If they issue a statement similar to the one I presented what are you going to do?


That might be your hope, but that isn't necessarily true. There are a number of senarios where the issue is resolved and Walsh never talks. In fact, those are the most likely senarios. That is what will benefit those with the most power here. If Specter really could have done something to force their hand, don't you think he would have by now?



I am sure you were also hanging on every pearl of wisdom dropped by the estimable Kato Kaetlin as well. Some of us actually looked into his background and can recognize a fraud and a charlatan for what his is. This isn't the type of guy you want to stake your reputation or fortune on.

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years). NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear. Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

 

[BrianPat]

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years). NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear. Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

Personally, I could care what fans of other teams think ! Also, I think the concept that MOST fans think this way is incorrect. I think the fans that tend to complain in the first place are the loudest anyway, so now its perceived their position is the position of all the other fans out there. It's funny, here in Pittsburgh, most I've spoken too could care less at this point !

 

[flasox27]

Fenetic
Keep in mind 2 things.
Regardless of what Walsh does or says the media will continue to attack the Pats and the idiots that believe them will continue to believe them. So putting it behind us is not an option.
Most Pats fans would like to see Walsh talk, because he will be steamrolled by the Pats attorneys and then find himself on trial in Massachusetts for iilegal taping of conversations. There would be a very good chance of him winding up in Walpole where they don't have need of an assistant golf pro.

 

[jmt57]

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years).

That is certainly a possibility, but in my opinion no matter what the outcome is, the NFL's popularity will not dwindle. Last year fans turned out in record numbers. Some wanted to witness perfection, and others were hoping for the team they hated to lose. The NFL is entertainment, and all good theatre needs a villain. The Raiders had become irrelevant and fans root for the underdog to win. The Patriots had won three championships with a coach who shows little emotion in public; they were the perfect villain. The more the media talked about it, the more the mob mentality of a witch hunt took over. It was the perfect storm for big ratings when the team went through the 18 games without a loss.

NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear.

Most message boards are not a very good representation of an NFL team's fans. Does the typical NFL fan sound like the people who post on espn? Thankfully, no. Is a Colts fan going to go on their message board and defend the Patriots? Of course not, because it's not a big issue to him, and if he does try to make a point he'll get shouted down with rhetoric. There are a few good message boards out there but most tend to get over run with utter nonsense by punks full of false bravado and no original thought. The ones I have seen that do have members that speak intelligently about the game and their team don't even bring up Spygate.

Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

Yes, Goodell has painted himself into a corner. However, if he comes down hard on the Patriots based on hearsay, he could end up being sued by Kraft or BB. I do think that most Pats fans do want Walsh to come forward because the belief is that he has nothing new. They don't want him to come forward under his terms - total indemnification - which would allow him to write a book full of lies with no worries about libel and slander law suits.

 

[NEPatriot]

I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

As a NE's fan, i want to see what Walsh has. I really don't want to see this spygate topic show up during 08 SB again.

Is it better for Walsh to send a tape to NFL or newspaper ANONYMOUSLY so that he doesn't ask for 'protection'.?

We have 'leaked' information from Capital Hill. Why wouldn't we have a 'leaked' spygate tape if we saw a 'leaked' sex tape of Paris Hilton.?

When Specter said 'there was filming', did he ACTUALLY see THIS TAPE or was it a 'rumor'.?

 

[PatriotsReign]

You may be right on the League not wanting to find anything and I agree they will do all they can to minimize it, but I think your analysis is a bit of wishful thinking on how this goes away. First, after what happened with destroying evidence the first time around, there's no way Goodell could get away with such a high-handed approach this time as to have no transparency with the process here..etc, etc."

FF, I've already told you once that the original tapes contained evidence of other teams cheating...many other teams. In order to avoid a league-wide investigation, the tapes were destroyed. That is the only reason they were destroyed.

 

[PatriotsReign]

As a NE's fan, i want to see what Walsh has. I really don't want to see this spygate topic show up during 08 SB again.

Is it better for Walsh to send a tape to NFL or newspaper ANONYMOUSLY so that he doesn't ask for 'protection'.?

We have 'leaked' information from Capital Hill. Why wouldn't we have a 'leaked' spygate tape if we saw a 'leaked' sex tape of Paris Hilton.?

When Specter said 'there was filming', did he ACTUALLY see THIS TAPE or was it a 'rumor'.?

"If" the Patriots make it to the next super bowl and the media decides to bury the event in more spygate, then we'll know for sure their is an organized conspiracy against the Patriots organization. Just know that "if" they do make it there again, they will NOT lose the game

 

[BSR]

If there's a tape and the League does nothing to the Pats, they risk hurting the League's image even further, thereby turning off more of their fans. If people think the games are fixed or one team has an unfair advantage (their thinking on this being right or wrong as a factual matter notwithstanding), that lessens their desire to watch the sport. That's what I mean by fans being "all over that". Popularity doesn't last forever--as noted above, ask MLB or the NBA about that, both sports have fallen well off their popularity highs (baseball since the disparity in spending by clubs has made competition a joke and the NBA over the last several years). NE fans may be happy in such a case, but I guarantee you, fans in other cities will be PO-ed big time. I'll ask again, don't believe me, go to another team's message board and pose that question (if there's a tape that Walsh produces, what should the punishment be and should the commissioner listen to and believe what the Pats say about the origin of the tape?) and see the answers you get--you won't like what you hear. Goodell will be between a rock and a hard place. He's already trying to water down the standard for handing out punishment at this weekend's upcoming owners' meetings (to a "preponderance of the evidence") and focusing the meetings more generally on preserving the integrity of the game.

In terms of whether Walsh ever speaks, it will be interesting, but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one--I don't think this issue goes away until we all hear from him. Again, I'm not sure why Pats fans don't seem to want him to come forward with whatever he has, as it's the only way to remove the cloud over the Pats right now.

So the answer to your questions is you think people will lose interest in the NFL if Goodell sweeps it under the rug? That's what you really think? So if that happened it would cause you to watch less football. Does that even make sense?

I talk to people from other states, many of them hard core football fans. The whole spygate thing is fun for them cause it give them an occasional barb to throw my way but none of them are silly enough to be outright angry about it. Nevermind cause them to watch less football.

Sorry, but I think this outrage you think would occur, won't. As someone else pointed out, what happened the first time the Patriots were painted as the villans? Record breaking TV ratings and jersey sales. You may want to agree to disagree but logic and viewership data disagree with you as well. Sorry.

 

[raftan]

I dont think that walsh has anything damaging. If he did, I think his lawyer would have had an unofficial meeting with the nfl to show them, then bargained from a position of strength. He could also have shown specter, then used specter to force the nfl to agree with whatever he wanted. I think the reason the negotiations between walsh's lawyer and the nfl have dragged on is because the truth is most damaging to walsh, and his lawyer is trying to get a deal that will protect him. I think he didn't tape the walkthrough, but spoke to reporters: he would say that he might have said they could have taped it, or that the reporters misunderstood him... In any case he would be vulnerable to a defamation suit. The herald would also be vulnerable to a libel suit. the herald would say there was no malicious intent butgood faith that the story was true, with regards to reckless disregard of the truth thet would say theychecked out that he did work for the patriots and had no reason to believe he was lying. the herald might have a case against walsh. I dont expect a resolution anytime soon

 

[FootballFanetic]

So the answer to your questions is you think people will lose interest in the NFL if Goodell sweeps it under the rug? That's what you really think? So if that happened it would cause you to watch less football. Does that even make sense?

I talk to people from other states, many of them hard core football fans. The whole spygate thing is fun for them cause it give them an occasional barb to throw my way but none of them are silly enough to be outright angry about it. Nevermind cause them to watch less football.

Sorry, but I think this outrage you think would occur, won't. As someone else pointed out, what happened the first time the Patriots were painted as the villans? Record breaking TV ratings and jersey sales. You may want to agree to disagree but logic and viewership data disagree with you as well. Sorry.

It certainly won't help the sport's popularity and I do think that it would turn at least some folks off of the sport. If it looks like it's becoming the WWF why watch? I disagree with you wholeheartedly on whether it would rise to the level of outrage with other teams' fans if (a) Walsh produces a Rams SB walkthrough and (b) Goodell refuses to punish the Pats further in such a case, effectively believing whatever the Pats tell him on that point (whatever it may turn out to be) over the hard evidence of the tape's mere existence. If you thought Sept's Spygate I was fun for Pats fans, that scenario would make last year look like a walk in the park for your team and its fans.

I'm with the other poster above--I just want to see what Walsh has, if anything. We can then take it from there.

 

[BSR]

It certainly won't help the sport's popularity and I do think that it would turn at least some folks off of the sport. If it looks like it's becoming the WWF why watch? I disagree with you wholeheartedly on whether it would rise to the level of outrage with other teams' fans if (a) Walsh produces a Rams SB walkthrough and (b) Goodell refuses to punish the Pats further in such a case, effectively believing whatever the Pats tell him on that point (whatever it may turn out to be) over the hard evidence of the tape's mere existence. If you thought Sept's Spygate I was fun for Pats fans, that scenario would make last year look like a walk in the park for your team and its fans.

I'm with the other poster above--I just want to see what Walsh has, if anything. We can then take it from there.

Just answer this simple question. If a month from now Goodell comes out with a statement as I outlined, are you going to not watch your favorite team on opening day? Are you going to not play fantasy football? Or not do anything that you normally would do with regards to football? If the anser is no then ask yourself why anyone else would.

 

[flasox27]

Fanetic
You just fail to comprehend that the Pats fans don't give a crap about the fans in the rest of the country and that Goodell has already turned the NFL into a joke by not investigating the collusion between the Colts and the Titans.
I think the Pats would love to have Walsh come forward no holds barred. After the pats lawyer got through with him, the commonwealth would pick up the pieces and through him in the slammer.

 

[tdw777]

...I disagree with you wholeheartedly on whether it would rise to the level of outrage with other teams' fans...

To which I say: "DO YOU UNDERTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF OUR MOUTHS"?? We don't give a rat's $ss what other fans think or say.

 

[Joker]

this "fanetic" clown HAS to be a Bart Muleyy Dolt clone...nobody can be THIS rockhead stupid and THIS stubborn but a hay farmer.