Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by Patriot Missile, Jul 31, 2011.
Sox trade for Bedard - BostonHerald.com
Last minute deal.
Overall not a bad trade for the Red sox. They got the SP help they needed and did not give up any top 10 rated propects from their farm system. Throw in piece, pitcher Josh Fields looks like a reclamation project with high upsdie as he was a former Mariners first round pick.
i like the trade. they didn't give up much. that being said its nothing to get excited about thats for sure. hes better than miller. buchholz to the 60 day dl really blows. if they cant get him back for the playoffs he could be the difference between wining and losing a ws. now you have to pray to the baseball gods that Beckett doesn't go down.
Better than Andrew Miller and Tim Wakefield ci?
I was relatively excited when the first report was that we got Trayvon Robinson in the deal, now its meh...
C'mon ump.. these pitches are being thrown for strikes. Give Bedard a chance would you.
he got squeezed big time tonight...still pitched pretty well
I thought he pitched very well tonight for no reward from the home plate umpire. Interestingly, when Papelbon came on, the strike zone was improved tremendously.
Tim McClelland is a pretty good ump too...maybe he had a bad night. He is well regarded by the catchers and managers
I can't watch this guy without thinking of something that Jerry Trupeano (sp?) said about him a few years ago. He was pitching for the Orioles and Trupeano says, completely out of the blue, "Bedard. Sounds like something a pirate would say. Bedarrrhhd."
I'm pretty sure Castiglione ignored this and went on calling the game.
Bedard isn't "Better than Miller", he might be better than Lester. He's just had trouble staying healthy the last couple years. When he has been able to pitch, hes been an ace.
Last 3 years:
Bedard: 346 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.168 WHIP, 3.3 BB/9, 10.0 K/9
Lester: 552 IP, 3.32 ERA, 1.220 WHIP, 3.2 BB/9, 9.5 K/9
Beckett: 485I IP, 3.86 ERA, 1.206 WHIP, 2.6 BB/9, 8.2 K/9
Some of that should be tempered by the fact that roughly half the innings are in a great pitchers park in seattle, but the othe half is in Baltimore playing 66 games a year against the Red Sox, Rays, and Yankees.
If he's healthy, he might be the best pitcher on the team. Forget "better than miller"
How good he might be, or could have been at one time, is irrelevant when you can't pitch, isn't it?
His last season that was anywhere near being complete was 2007.
When he was healthy in the past, he certainly had potential to be an ace -- that's why Seattle gave up so much for him. But until he stays healthy and shows he can perform under pressure, comparisons to Beckett and lester are premature, imo
Which is why I said "if hes healthy".
Although, I'm not sure Beckett has much more of the ability to stay healthy. Lester is a horse though.
Point is, Talent-wise, hes as good as anyone.
No, talent-wise he was as good as anyone.
You're continuing to ignore the fact that he hasn't been healthy in years -- in fact, he's never really pitched a full year, I don't think -- and that he hasn't shown he can pitch under pressure. A huge knock against him in the past was his desire and/or mental makeup.
You said, "he might be better than Lester," and "he might be the best pitcher on the team." There's not much to support those beliefs right now.
re. beckett, innings pitched doesn't lie. Beckett has shown more of an ability to stay healthy. There are probably relievers who've thrown as many innings over the past three years as Bedard has.
I hope as much as anybody that he still has that talent, that the talk about his mental strength or desire is wrong and that he can manage to pitch the rest of the year. I just think it's silly to compare him to guys in Beckett's and lester's class at this point in his career.
What do you mean WAS?
Bedard: 101 IP, 3.55 ERA, 8.7K/9, 3.0 BB/9
Thats pretty friggen good.
which do you want to say -- as good as any one or pretty good?
Is it pretty good? yup.
Is it as good as Beckett or Lester? Nope.
K Rate and BB Rate are the things that pitchers have the most control over, and typically are the best things to use to predict performance going forward.
Lester: 8.62 K/9, 3.32 BB/9
Bedard:9.8 K/9, 3.69 BB/9
Beckett:7.8 K/9, 2.42 BB/9
So, he strikes out significantly more guys than Beckett or Lester, and walks slightly more than Lester (and significantly more than Beckett). So yeah, I'd say just as good.
The only area he really falls behind this year is IP. He's only thrown about 110 at this point, and the other guys have thrown 140. Which is of course a worry, but Bedard has been great this year.
No, he hasn't. You keep switching what you want to talk about.
Do you want to use predictive stats? Fine -- you can use K and BB rates and take Bedard. I'll use IP. Let's see who winds up being correct. (btw, even on K/BB, Beckett is well above both Bedard and Lester)
If you want to use past performance, which is what we are talking about when discussin performance this year, Ks and BBs aren't what wins games. IP and ERA do. Take a look at WAR, since that's what you want to go by in the Ellsbury thread -- how many wins has Bedard been worth this year as opposed to Beckett and Lester?
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