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Sophie's choice. Talib or Welker?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patradomous, Jan 22, 2013.

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  1. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    If you had your choice who stays who goes?

    I say Talib stays. You have enough offense and Edeleman is Welker light if you can keep him on the field.
    I hate seeing Welker go without a ring.
    But in my opinon its time to change the philosophy of this team. Brady is getting older let him go back to managing a efficient offense and get back to defense.
    Also when Brady hang it up the new man in town won't have to be superman but good enough to manage an adequote.
  2. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Lol at this thread title!
  3. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Whos Nathan and who is Stingo.

    Welker seems like the Stingo type.:p
  4. Marqui

    Marqui Rookie

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    I'd go with Talib. I'm kinda done with the whole being the 2000 Colts thing.
  5. Pewsterbaby

    Pewsterbaby Rookie

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    Totally. I've been so down in the dumps since the game, reading that sophisticated decidedly non-football-board reference made me break out into a big smile for the 1st time since the 3rd quarter Sunday night. :)
  6. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    I say talib

    the offensive roster is scheme diverse.

    although I believe 'cheaping out' on the WR position will likely cause problems
  7. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Funny title.

    Still why do you contradict yourself. you want brady to manage an efficient offense yet want to get rid of his most efficient and productive wide receiver he has. You want a system when brady manages , meaning alot of screens and WR who can gain YAC and help there QB. Yet want to get rid of the best Screen and YAC guy he has.

    Current WR on the roster.

    Brandon Lloyd, Matthew Slater, Kamar Aiken, Jeremy Ebert, Andre Holmes

    You believe adding Edelman to the above group make brady efficient ?. I have not idea how . right every team #1CB is covering Wes . by not resignig him you are going to let the #1CB cover Lloyd. i bet his production goes down from what is doing now .

    We need a physical #1CB type , not sure if talib is the quy as he is hurt quite a bit even in TB.

    Are YOU the one who is happy with the CAP space the pats saved and had leftover in 2012 by signing fananer over bryant who has a monster year for the seahawks. Did the cap room make you happy after the loss.btw, we still had cap space last year. we did get value for fanane.
  8. Wilfork#75

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    It all comes down to the financial, but I would certainly feel more comfortable giving Welker a big contract than Talib. Off field issues aside (which obviously have to be taken into consideration), Welker has been a more consistent performer for a long period of time. You can downplay the production, look at the drops and say he is a product of the system, but he is the 2nd most productive WR in the NFL over the last 6 years. He has a great relationship with Brady, understands the system better than any WR and flat out performs every time he steps on the field. Football is a game of 60min, so I think its ridiculous to judge a player off a few plays. To me the 672 catches for 7459 yards and 37 TD's over the past 6 seasons tells me a hell of a lot more than a few drops, even if they are in key situations.
  9. PatsFanSince74

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    Given the obscenely tragic subject matter of Styron's brilliant and wrenching book, the thread title is jarring, completely inappropriate and, indeed, offensive to some of us. It trivializes what Styron accomplished in his masterpiece.

    If what the OP meant to say is: "A tough choice. Talib or Welker?," then my view is this:

    If this is indeed a Zero Sum game (and I don't know that it is), in which the Pats have to let one go in order to retain the other, then I would argue to keep Talib and let Welker go, with profound regrets.

    Talib has become far more important, relatively speaking, to the D than Welker, as brilliant as he is, is to the O. The Pats failure during the second half of Sunday's game was a product of many factors on both sides of the ball, but the difference in the success of Baltimore's Offense with and without Talib on the field cannot be ignored; Harbaugh said after the game that they were able to do a lot more things in the second half.
  10. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    It's as simple as you put it if the money works Wilfork. A stable, guaranteed, clutch all-pro player over a talented player with numerous off the field issues. When you step back from the ledge it's a no-brainer.

    Now, if you want to decide Vollmer or Talib. Let's talk. We have Talib's issues. But, Vollmer has a balky back. And, plays at a position easier to fill. If Talib is reasonable, I'd sign him over Seabass.
  11. PatsFanSince74

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    What, exactly, is funny about it?
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Well, Wes can actually stay on the field, so....
  13. Big-T

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    Talib.

    Younger and more important to the team - him leaving the game on Sunday showed that.

    There's a lot of good WRs in the draft and FA this year so Welker could be replaced by a younger, cheaper player who does the same job (Amendola) or a younger player who can do the same and more but cost roughly the same (Jennings).
  14. PatsFanSince74

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    Please explain to me what is "Funny" about comparing the hypothesized choice between Welker and Talib to the life and death choice, capturing the agony of an entire era, that infuses Styron's book. I see nothing "funny" at all therein.
  15. MoLewisrocks

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    Talib was on the field for half a quarter and two series while Caldwell was trying to establish the run. Had Welker not been on that field the Ravens might have shut us out.
  16. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Because they are not related. Wes plays WR and Talib plays CB. having a No1 WR has not stopped any team paying for No1 CB on another other team than the pats in the league.

    Even after paying 11 million to WES , we where under the cap space!.
    that included a signing bonus for fanane in there. Gronk and hernandaz where also sign this year....even after all this we where under the cap.

    now to claim that somehow there is NO cap space so we have to let one go is crazy. I will bet that even if we sign all the guys we want we will again be UNDER THE CAP THIS YEAR.
  17. MoLewisrocks

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    There is no guarantee you can replace production in this offense with a FA or drafted WR. History has taught us that. They have also struggled to replace performance with drafted and FA corners, although not to the extent they have receivers in this offense. If the choice includes which guy you trust to perform with a 3-4 year deal and double digit guaranteed money in hand, Welker despite his age is the far better bet to.
  18. PatsFanSince74

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    This falls in the category of the "unknowable" since it is purely hypothetical, but one could argue that they were focused on the run earlier in the game precisely because of the challenge that a Talib-enabled D presented. We can't know what Caldwell would or wouldn't have done if Talib had played the entire game.

    As for Welker's contribution, I was pretty careful not to gainsay his value to the team in my comment. The OP presented us with a "one or the other" choice and that was the context of my comment.
  19. Wilfork#75

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    If we were in a situation where we could only keep two of the three, I would look to sign Welker and Talib and tag and trade Vollmer. Vollmer would probably have the most trade value and also command a higher salary than both. OT would also probably be the easiest position to fill. To do this I think we would have to sign Talib and agree to terms with Welker, but not make it official until after the trade and Vollmer's franchise tag would be off the books (about $9.6mil). I would love to keep all three, but if we can't I think this is the best alternative.
  20. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    WW is incredibly productive and should be retained but I seriously question what makes him clutch.
  21. PatsFanSince74

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    if you meant to say "ironic" instead of "funny," I would take your point, but I think you are giving the OP a little too much credit there.
  22. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    Thank you for the wonderful soliloquy.

    Lighten up Francis, it wasn't meant to offend anyone and you know it.
  23. PatsFanSince74

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    Sorry, but some of us find nothing funny about jokes about the Holocaust and its perpetrators or victims. I stand by my comment. And my name isn't Francis.
  24. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Room can always be made, at a price. It's as foolish to say of course we can as it is to say no way we can. Had they not restructured Brady's cap from the debit to credit card we'd have ended this season $4M over the cap which you can't do... That would have negated a couple of signings not to mention trading for Talib. I guarantee we will be under the cap again this year, because by rule you have to be. By how much will be determined by how many of the guys they want to sign they actually determine they can afford to. Bill always says we can sign anyone we want, but there IS a tradeoff. It's loss of production or depth or inability to upgrade talent somewhere else on the roster.
  25. MoneyFX

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    Not sure here, I'd love Talib back, because he makes the defense better and allows them to play more aggressive. But its hard to replace hundreds of catches a year in Wes Welker. Welker is great, but they need a guy with size/speed.

    But regardless who they keep, they need an overhaul on the WR position. They need a legit #1 with size/speed that can provide big plays when needed and catch when covered, fight for the football.
  26. 1%er

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    Cary Williams would look good in Foxboro..
  27. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    Then you should be really pissed about the ones who commercialized it and cashed in by making a movie about it.
    By the way I have lost relatives making sure such atrocites never happened again so spare me the righteous indignation about using a commercialized movie title about the holocaust for a sports analogy.
  28. Pewsterbaby

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    You'd think it actually was life & death around here by the way some people mull over the "Welker or Talib, save one & let the other go" decision. Therein lies the black humor. The thread title's dark correlation does have it's merits on this dreary Tuesday.


    Sent from my pronged potato, jacked into the corner streetlight in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
  29. naF staP

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    LOL at Edelman taking Welkers spot. Come on, Edelman can't even stay on the field, you really think he can take the pounding on the field Welker does? Sure, lets let one of the top, most productive receivers in the NFL and Patriots team history go. Lets take away Brady's go to guy and give him someone less talented and more fragile to get used to and depend on at the final stages of his glorious QB career.

    Concerning Talib, he hasn't played a complete season in the NFL yet. This made of china DB did help the defense but where was he when he was needed the most? Answer.... on the bench hurt! Sure the defense needs an overhaul but if you picking between the two to keep it's a no brainer!
  30. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    There is nobody in the entire league like Welker. Edleman will never be Welker. But if you don't make the choice over sacrificing some O for some D.
    Then the context of this thread will be here at the same time next year.Maybe with just a change of names.
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