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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Hard to believe but I actually found something new and interesting in the Herald blog. I thought this might encourage a discussion....because the next 5 weeks ARE the true dog days of the NFL off season.

    I thought Kazcur was given a grade that was too high. I thought Kyle Brady shouldn't be included as a starter since 3 WRs is a formation we see more than 2 TEs, even on the Pats. Also interesting to see that the War Room sees Assante as an "outstanding starter" and NOT a "rare player"

    I guess in the real world NONE of this means anything, but like I said "these ARE the dog days" ;)
     
  2. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Colts with an average defender rating of 7.3?

    The Patriots with an average offensive player rating that is, for all intents and purposes, equal to Indy's?

    Regarding Indy's 4 rare players...I'm not seeing it. I'll give you Manning and Harrison and even Wayne (although I'm not sure Wayne is a "rare" player. He is excellent, but at any given time there are 5-10 receivers in the league at or near his level. Maybe I'm arguing with semantics too much) but who else? Freeney? Sorry, not there. Sanders? Maybe if he could play more than a handful of games per year.

    Not only that, but how useful is the average on this one? Even if you have 4 rare players on the team, if two of your starters on either unit are below average, you will always be struggling to cover that up. Teams break at their weakest point, not their average.

    Jeezus, I just went back and looked at NE's OL. What idiot put this together? Koppen is the same as Kaczur and below Neal? Hell, Koppen is one of the 5 best centers in the league. Add the fact that Mankins is in the 7.5-7.9 range along with everyone else and you have an analyst that clearly knows nothing about OL play. I would be willing to bet that everyone on Indy's and SD's OL are in the same range with the exception of Saturday and McNeil. Both of those guys have some name recognition and are decent players.

    Long post to say that this is a bunch of crap.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Very interesting... thanks for posting...

    There's a few players that I think they give grades that are slightly too high and others too low - but rather than nitpick I'll just assume it all evens out.

    I think they also miss the mark by limiting the WR to just 2 starters. Given how much we spread the ball around and the breadth and depth of talent at WR that stat can't possibly capture what our WRs do to the offensive equation.

    Same with the disruptive versatility on defense.

    But overall the stats do seem to show that, not only are the Patriots distinct in the overall amount of quality in backups, that we have consistent quality among all our starters, as opposed to other teams that have peaks and valleys in the quality of players.

    All of that gets back to a philosophy in drafting and free agency - of not paying just a few guys big money but spreading the salary cap around more for quantity of quality.
     
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Football is a team game moreso than any other where lots of very good trumps a smattering of greatness scattered amongst a lot of fair to middlin'. In basketball stars dominate. As they can in baseball - particularly if they are pitchers. Not so in football - just ask Manning.

    That said, picking Dallas to represent the NFC totally invalidated their analysis. :D
     
  5. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice contribution, ken, to help cope with the downtime.

    Even tho' i agree with most of Owl's criticisms (and the others')
    ... i recognize that my own satisfaction with this edition of the team
    - almost deeming it the Patriots' "virtual All-Star team" -
    is in danger of drifting over the line towards smug.
     
  6. mavfan2390

    mavfan2390 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Mankins, Koppen, and Stallworth are too low

    Kaczur and Maroney are too high.


    On defense, Samuel and Bruschi are way too high, and Vrabel and Colvin are way too low.
     
  7. solman

    solman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Isn't the Colvin grade a little insane?

    I would have put him above Bruschi and Vrabel. I'd also lower Bruschi's grade and raise AD's.

    I say this despite my utmost respect for Bruschi, who is unquestionably my favorite Patriot.
     
  8. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Overall, the article was pretty good and very interesting. Here are my tweaks to the patriot rankings:

    Original rankins in parentheses where changed.

    OFFENSE

    QB Tom Brady: 9.7
    RB Laurence Maroney: 7.5 (8.4)
    WR Randy Moss: 8.5
    WR Donte’ Stallworth: 7.7 (7.2)
    TE Benjamin Watson: 7.9 (7.0)
    TE Kyle Brady: 6.8 (6.5)
    OT Nick Kaczur: 7.1 (7.5)
    OT Matt Light: 7.5
    G Logan Mankins: 8.1 (7.9)
    G Stephen Neal: 7.6 (7.9)
    C Dan Koppen: 7.8 (7.5)

    DEFENSE

    DE Richard Seymour: 9.3 (9.0)
    DE Ty Warren: 8.2
    NT Vince Wilfork: 8.2
    LB Adalius Thomas: 9.0 (8.5)
    LB Tedy Bruschi: 7.9 (8.4)
    LB Mike Vrabel: 8.0
    LB Rosevelt Colvin: 7.8 (7.1)
    CB Asante Samuel: 8.5
    CB Ellis Hobbs: 7.6 (7.8)
    S Rodney Harrison: 7.5
    S Eugene Wilson: 7.5
     
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First the scoring system: A grade of 10.0-9.0 for a “rare player”; 8.9-8.0 for an “outstanding player”; 7.9-7.5 for a “solid starter”; 7.4-7.0 for a “good starter”: 6.9-6.5 for an “adequate starter”; 6.4-6.0 for a “marginal starter/good backup”; 5.9-5.5 for an “adequate backup”; 5.4-5.0 for a marginal backup”. And now, the grades for the 2007 Patriots:

    OFFENSE

    QB Tom Brady: 9.7
    RB Laurence Maroney: 8.1
    WR Randy Moss: 8.5
    WR Donte’ Stallworth: 7.2
    TE Benjamin Watson: 7.0
    TE Kyle Brady: 6.5 - I read some concern with this number, folks need to remember Kyle is a double digit veteran with a long track record making this one of the easier assessments.
    OT Nick Kaczur: 7.5 - Folks complaining that this is too high seem to be forgetting the Kaczur people grumped about last season started that season on the injury report as he continued to rehab a surgically repaired shoulder. With two seasons of work at both tackle positions to evaluate I'm not surprised by this score. Now if he can only dispel the rumor that he isn't working hard enough this off-season.
    OT Matt Light: 7.5 - .47 sacks/game? Walter Jones = .66 sacks/game. Cry me an f-g river guys.
    G Logan Mankins: 7.9
    G Stephen Neal: 7.9 - Let's see, the guy is roughly the equivalent of a red shirt senior with more to learn, how is this too high?
    C Dan Koppen: 7.5 - This I agree is lower than Dan deserves, thankfully BB/SP re-signed him to a multimillion dollar package to show us how they reacted him.

    DEFENSE

    DE Richard Seymour: 9.0
    DE Ty Warren: 8.2 - I think this one will rise, but not bad for what he's done career-wise to date.
    NT Vince Wilfork: 8.2
    LB Adalius Thomas: 8.5 - I rarely watch Baltimore games, so I can't say.
    LB Tedy Bruschi: 8.4 - The guy comes back from a stroke mid-season and helps turn the defense around, then plays an entire season with a cast on one hand, both seasons were on teams considered to be handicapped by Free Agency losses and injuries and still went deep into the playoffs and people think this score is overrated? I guess it just goes to show how good a healthy Bruschi really is. Please Lord, no injuries for Tedy this year, he needs to feed some folks humble pie.
    LB Mike Vrabel: 8.0 - Vrabes is an outstanding player, a year spent back on the edge should reaffirm that.
    LB Rosevelt Colvin: 7.1 - He wasn't as good against the run this last season, maybe playing the left side made it harder, but a fair score for Rosy.
    CB Asante Samuel: 8.5 - A "rare" player he is not despite one season of ball hawking, Champ ball hawks and shuts down his side, that is rare.
    CB Ellis Hobbs: 7.8
    S Rodney Harrison: 7.5
    S Eugene Wilson: 7.5

    Koppen's is the only score I really disagree with, and that isn't significant. After trying to breakdown games using broadcast tape and amateur enthusiasm, I don't see where the Sporting News "Scouts" are off the mark by much. Bring on TC!
     
  10. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Maroney an 8.1? - No idea of the reasoning saying he is ranked that high up after a good but not great rookie season,albeit an injury setback.

    More like a 7.0 right now ,We will see his 'year after Corey' production this year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  11. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Is it just me or is it stupid that a "solid player" is better than a "good player?"
     
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not really, I'd almost use them interchangeably. I guess in my mind "solid" comes across as more dependable/consistent. I can live with a "solid" player having a slight edge on a "good" player, e.g. Troy Brown is solid, Reche Caldwell is good.
     

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