Someone: Make The Case For McKenzie

[BradyFTW!]

WRITE IT WITH MAGIC MARKER if you want.

Mayo was injured last year. He was out for some games. He was playing way under 100% for the rest. So how much did the #4 ILB play? How much did the player who was calling signals for the second team defense last week play? The #4 ILB played in 0.3% of the defensive reps. The NUMBER THREE ILB played in fewer than 12% of the defensive reps.

We need a THIRD ILB because of Guyton's su[pposed weakness against the run. We need a THIRD ILB in case of injury to one of the starters.

We need a FOURTH ILB to play special teams. GOT IT?????

There just aren't may reps for backup ILB's. The ILB's share two roster spots. Each position is on the field for about 85% or so of the defesive reps.

That says more about the quality of the #4 ILB that we had last year than anything. McKenzie going down in OTAs and Bruschi retiring in TC pushed our depth to the limit. Do you think that Belichick wanted Guyton playing 85% of defensive reps? Because I promise you that that was not what anyone (except maybe Guyton and his agent) wanted.

The sooner Guyton is removed from the general ILB rotation and placed strictly in a specialized, passing-down only role, the better. If we had had the depth of talent at ILB in past years that we have this year, I believe that it would have already happened. You're assuming that the Pats will use their personnel exactly the same as they have in past years, and that has been proven over and over again to be a deeply flawed assumption. ILB was a weakness on this team, and now it's a strength. The Pats aren't going to chip away at that strength by cutting talented football players.

Besides, how many times have you heard Belichick say that he worries more about assembling 53 good football players than having an exact count for each position? I've heard it at least a couple of times. At the back end of the roster, he's picking the most talented players, not making sure that his third stringers are in the 'proper' position. And finally, if need be, there's no inherent reason why McKenzie can't contribute on ST. He's young, athletic, and workmanlike by all accounts. Your methodology might fit on some other teams, but not on a Belichick-run one.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

We've had 6 years to make a judgement on Alexander. I would take Mckenzie's potential to be an actual linebacker as well as a special teams player over what we know of Alexander.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think that's going a bit far.

Guyton is nowhere near the liability those players are/were.

No, definitely not as bad. I was pointing out that a guy starting at the weakest position on the defense (which was ILB was in 2008, at least, and perhaps was again in 2009) does not indicate that the player is extremely talented and should not/cannot be replaced. If this was the indicator of skill that mgteich seems to think it is, then why were McKenzie and Spikes drafted in the first place?

 

[Ring 6]

SOMEONE MAKE THE CASE FOR MCKENZIE
And, please use some other argument than he hasn't been given a chance. We have three young solid ILBs signed at least through 2011. Mayo on one side and Guyton and Spikes splitting the other.

The #4 ILB gets almost no reps. In 2009, even with the injury to Mayo, the #3 ILB was included on 12% of defensive reps, the #4 on less than 1% of the defensive reps.

This year we expect MORE reps from Mayo, and for Spikes and Guyton to split the reps on the other side. This leaves the same 1% or less for the #4.

So, what good is a #4 ILB at all. The #4 ILB spot has been used for years as a label for a top special teamer: for Davis, for Izzo and for Alexander.
==================
In what way is McKenzie and upgrade over Alexander?

I admit to ahving McKenzie on my roster. Reiss put him back after receiving such abuse after excluding him last week.

But for experience McKenzie may well be ahead of Guyton.
He is a good football player at a position where we are stong and deep.
I havent seen him play special teams but I think its reasonable to assume he can be effective on those units.

 

[Ring 6]

We've had 6 years to make a judgement on Alexander. I would take Mckenzie's potential to be an actual linebacker as well as a special teams player over what we know of Alexander.

For 6 years the judgment has been that he is a valuable player, valuable enough to make the team and be active for many games.
You act as if his 6 years of making the team is an indictment.

 

[deters]

Clearly, finding talent at inside linebacker is a challenge. McKenzie appears to have talent. He also seems like a pretty smart player. I can’t swear to it, but I believe he’s been seen wearing the green dot on his helmet, indicating that he is the one receiving the defensive calls when he is in the game. I really, really don’t think that the Patriots are going to discard a player with potential at such a key position on their defense simply because some other guys can play special teams or line up at fullback.
As for why he’s coming into the games so late, I think it is a combination of things – he is still coming back from a severe knee injury, he’s being eased back into game action after not having played a real game in nearly two years, the team clearly wants to give Brandon Spikes as much playing time as feasible in the preseason to get him ramped up to be the starter on opening day, and the green dot – I think they want to have him learn the play calls, but putting him in at the end of the game perhaps makes it a bit easier to get some practice in with doing it.
I still think the Patriots will find a way to keep McKenzie on the team.

On Mankins, McKenzie

 

[AzPatsFan]

SOMEONE MAKE THE CASE FOR MCKENZIE
And, please use some other argument than he hasn't been given a chance. We have three young solid ILBs signed at least through 2011. Mayo on one side and Guyton and Spikes splitting the other.

The #4 ILB gets almost no reps. In 2009, even with the injury to Mayo, the #3 ILB was included on 12% of defensive reps, the #4 on less than 1% of the defensive reps.

This year we expect MORE reps from Mayo, and for Spikes and Guyton to split the reps on the other side. This leaves the same 1% or less for the #4.

So, what good is a #4 ILB at all. The #4 ILB spot has been used for years as a label for a top special teamer: for Davis, for Izzo and for Alexander.
==================
In what way is McKenzie and upgrade over Alexander?

I admit to ahving McKenzie on my roster. Reiss put him back after receiving such abuse after excluding him last week.

mg,

I'll do so. We have Mayo, Guyton, Alexander and Fletcher as WILBs and Spikes and Mackenzie as SILB linebackers. Yes I know that they cross train but when Guyton or Mayo was forced to move from his specialty and play SILB, the results in 2009 were unsatisfactory. Keeping three of one type and nobody save the starter at the other makes no sense, especiallly when th etalent myay well be the other way.

The day of ST only specialists is dying. When you have ST stars like Aiken who can play WR; and Woods who can play OLB, there is little need for pure ST players. It is symptomatic of just how good and how deep this team has become. No matter what anyone says, NOBODY has more ST tackles annually, than Pierre Woods and he isn't a gunner! Aiken provides the ST leadership that Izzo used to do; and Belichick went out of his way to get him from Buffalo, where he was also the ST captain, just like he is here. Both stay as fringe regulars and ST stars.

 

[SanAngeloState]

mcKenzie has PS eligibility, does he not? Earlier I said Guyton was not physical. Some people took umbrage at that, but I stand by that statement.

 

[Sciz]

I see McKenzie as the direct backup if Spikes goes down and Guyton the direct backup if Mayo goes down, plus subpackage work. Part of that explains why McKenzie has entered the games later than guys like Fletcher or Alexander. Spikes has been getting more snaps at the expense of McKenzie.

He's not going to make it to the PSquad, but I see him as a future third ILB, a tweener backup. He can play SILB next to Mayo if Spikes gets hurt or WILB next to Spikes if Mayo goes down. He's just not ready for that yet. This isn't a one year decision, and I think that in two seasons, he'll be ahead of Guyton.

 

[RayClay]

mcKenzie has PS eligibility, does he not? Earlier I said Guyton was not physical. Some people took umbrage at that, but I stand by that statement.

And he would be lost, most likely.

 

[stinkypete]

mg,

I'll do so. We have Mayo, Guyton, Alexander and Fletcher as WILBs and Spikes and Mackenzie as SILB linebackers. Yes I know that they cross train but when Guyton or Mayo was forced to move from his specialty and play SILB, the results in 2009 were unsatisfactory. Keeping three of one type and nobody save the starter at the other makes no sense, especiallly when th etalent myay well be the other way.

That's the most compelling argument I've heard. I recall Guyton was at his best while filling in for Mayo. He and Spikes certainly aren't fighting for the same role on the defense. Their games are far too different.

 

[patsfan13]

I didn't realize this was going to be so incredibly difficult for you to comprehend, but the value arises if/when one or more of the starters go down with injury.

Hey Jack remember the playoff game against the Colts when Alexander was forced to play LB due to injuries?


I sure do, I hope to never see that sort of LB play again for the Pats. McKenzie has looked better than Alexander when the 2 have been the games together.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

For 6 years the judgment has been that he is a valuable player, valuable enough to make the team and be active for many games.
You act as if his 6 years of making the team is an indictment.

Enough with the dramatics, my exact words were "I would take Mckenzie's potential to be an actual linebacker as well as a special teams player over what we know of Alexander." In those 6 years Alexander has shown that he is a special team only player. His career stats in those 6 years are 48 tackles 0 picks 0 sacks 0 pass def. Oh yeah, he's also been released 5 times, yes he's that valuable.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Why is there so much McKenzie hate? There's no reason to be as hard on this guy as some people are. As previously mentioned, having two SILBs on the roster so Mayo can return to WILB full time and Guyton can have a more selective role is reason enough to keep McKenzie. It's all about versatility and having Mayo, Spikes, McKenzie and Guyton gives them tons of it at ILB.

 

[Ring 6]

Enough with the dramatics, my exact words were "I would take Mckenzie's potential to be an actual linebacker as well as a special teams player over what we know of Alexander." In those 6 years Alexander has shown that he is a special team only player. His career stats in those 6 years are 48 tackles 0 picks 0 sacks 0 pass def. Oh yeah, he's also been released 5 times, yes he's that valuable.

Well your actual words were we have had 6 years to make a judgment on Alexander, and I pointed out that he came out pretty well in that judgment, making the team every year.
If you thought BB spent 6 years trying to figure out if Alexander was a starting LB, you havent been keeping up. He made the team as a special teams contributor, and a very good for 6 straight years. The judgment you see as in progress was made many times over.

 

[reflexblue]

Why is there so much McKenzie hate? There's no reason to be as hard on this guy as some people are. As previously mentioned, having two SILBs on the roster so Mayo can return to WILB full time and Guyton can have a more selective role is reason enough to keep McKenzie. It's all about versatility and having Mayo, Spikes, McKenzie and Guyton gives them tons of it at ILB.

Yeah i agree, this is the guys first TC and some people think hes a bust and should be cut already.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Well your actual words were we have had 6 years to make a judgment on Alexander, and I pointed out that he came out pretty well in that judgment, making the team every year.
If you thought BB spent 6 years trying to figure out if Alexander was a starting LB, you havent been keeping up. He made the team as a special teams contributor, and a very good for 6 straight years. The judgment you see as in progress was made many times over.

Again, where do you come up this? Can you make an argument without these exaggerations? My point was that we know Alexander is a special team player only, not a viable option at LB, McKenzie at the very least has the potential to play LB as well as special teams. It's a very simple premise. BTW when you say Alexander was very good for 6 straight years, you do know that he was mainly on the practice squad his first two years and only appeared in 4 games total, as well as missing all but 1 game in 2008, right.

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

SUMMARY OF THE LAST FEW PAGES to save people some reading:

Do McKenzie's superior backup ILB play today, and potential ST and ILB play tomorrow, outweigh Alexander's ST play today?

The caveat is that the two are not weighted equally.

is this an accurate representation of the sentiments going around here?

 

[RayClay]

Well your actual words were we have had 6 years to make a judgment on Alexander, and I pointed out that he came out pretty well in that judgment, making the team every year.
If you thought BB spent 6 years trying to figure out if Alexander was a starting LB, you havent been keeping up. He made the team as a special teams contributor, and a very good for 6 straight years. The judgment you see as in progress was made many times over.

That's a circular argument. The fact that he made the team is the reason he should have made the team? The fact is we had no quality backup linebackers for him to beat out during that period, so the fact that he was cheap and willing on teams made him the default back up linebacker.

 

[Off The Grid]

I could find articles from three weeks ago saying how impressive McKenzie looked in camp. Now because they want Spikes to play, he's a has been.

Tough to be in show biz. Every player isn't getting a chance to shine and they aren't all going from impressive big hitter to washed up over a few weeks either.

Indeed. Most fans are short sighted, and overlook the reality that, because of last year's injury, and because of his COMPLETE lack of Real Time Experience, McKenzie will probably not REALLY start to rock and roll until 2011...But Rock and Roll...he WILL.